Game looks devoid of challenge

[Moon]

I watched the game here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVO8rkXkrcs


Even considering this is the game's first level, it looks like the game's difficulty is made for casual gamers, high difficulty is what Ninja Gaiden was respected for, if you don't have that it just feels like a cheap knock-off.

To elaborate.

The enemies are neutered. Adrenaline has been siphoned out . The screen resolution is much longer than NG is giving more reaction, rather than increase the enemy's speed to compensate enemies are actually slower compared to NG, they either sit patiently waiting for the player to engage them at their leisure or crawl towards him at the speed of a goomba. They also do not spawn infinitely or come out at with little warning, or at unexpected angles, or in ways which would make platforming tricky. The sense of urgency and speed than NG had is completely gone from Messanger. It's like the whole thing is made for people that have no reaction time. Again I understand this is the first level but even if you compare the first level of NG3, your game is hard-casual.
*
Health, checkpoints, and lives are plentiful, freeing the player from the burden of danger and excitement Health pick ups are in plainsite and can even drop from enemies. I saw more health drops in the first 12 minutes of this game than exist in the entiry of the NG trilogy combined. Checkpoints seem so frequent they are like save-states and with infinite lives dying is a slap on the wrist. Save files: NG3 had finite continues and 1&2 still had you restarting from the beginning eventually because it didn't offer a save or password feature (you eventually have to turn the console off). So across all boards, the risk and thrill of a death that sends you far back is gone. Something tells me the game won't even have 1-hit kill pits.

It looks well below the level of not just Ninja Gaiden but of pretty much all the big names of the 8 and 16 bit consoles.

[Fracture94]

This game is way too easy. That is a fact. It has good flow, true, and im having a blast playing it, but i cant believe how easy it is, considering the genre it belongs. Even the hardest achievement is very easy, complete the game without diying till you fight one of the earliest bosses... the swamp one if i remember correctly. Too bad... im having fun with it and i dont mind a game to be easy, but this is too much xD. Its like Banjo Kazoie and A Hat In Time. Both are easy, but A Hat... exceeds the threshold. Same with this one. And the critics, wow... everyone gave it a 10/10. Really this is a 10 game? I insist, is really fun... but thats all. Far from a 10/10 game.

[MakoSucks]

Originally posted by wolfqack:

I love the old ninja gaiden games but a lot of the difficulty was from poor design choices so this doesn't seem over easy for a first level.

Poor design choices? i disagree. Ninja Gaiden 2 the Dark Sword of Chaos is perfectly designed to be difficult, and fast paced, and that's why it's still considered a classic.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Fracture94:

This game is way too easy. That is a fact. It has good flow, true, and im having a blast playing it, but i cant believe how easy it is, considering the genre it belongs. Even the hardest achievement is very easy, complete the game without diying till you fight one of the earliest bosses... the swamp one if i remember correctly. Too bad... im having fun with it and i dont mind a game to be easy, but this is too much xD. Its like Banjo Kazoie and A Hat In Time. Both are easy, but A Hat... exceeds the threshold. Same with this one. And the critics, wow... everyone gave it a 10/10. Really this is a 10 game? I insist, is really fun... but thats all. Far from a 10/10 game.

Sucks to be you, I guess?

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Fracture94:

This game is way too easy. That is a fact. It has good flow, true, and im having a blast playing it, but i cant believe how easy it is, considering the genre it belongs. Even the hardest achievement is very easy, complete the game without diying till you fight one of the earliest bosses... the swamp one if i remember correctly. Too bad... im having fun with it and i dont mind a game to be easy, but this is too much xD. Its like Banjo Kazoie and A Hat In Time. Both are easy, but A Hat... exceeds the threshold. Same with this one. And the critics, wow... everyone gave it a 10/10. Really this is a 10 game? I insist, is really fun... but thats all. Far from a 10/10 game.

Not everyone is a god gamer and it's not as if they advertise it as balls to the wall hard. In fact they don't say a thing about challenge....most games that try to be difficuly advertise as such.

[Red]

Pretty much all of my death happened because of certain layouts with spikes so far (Combat VS normal enemies isn't really the part where difficulty relies on), although a few bosses did take 3 lives away from me before I finally got my ♥♥♥♥ together and stopped dying in stupid ways.

[✯ El Juancho]

I've seen the full gameplay of Ninja gaiden 3, this gamer is harder and im not joking

[WildBastion]

The game begins easy, because y'know, its a difficulty *curve*, not difficulty "X = 3".

The game becomes much more difficult over time, with some challenge rooms requiring tight timing etc.

Granted, this game is no Celeste, but its not meant to be.

If enemies are too annoying, the metroidvania elements become a HUGE drag. This game strikes a nice balance. I do criticise them for the number of unique enemies, but I also admit they used what few they have very well.

The game is what it says on the box: "Ninja Gaiden: Metroidvania edition"

[256MB of SPAM]

Originally posted by Moon:

...it just feels like a cheap knock-off.

It doesn't feel like a cheap knock off at all. It's actually pretty well designed. It's called The Messenger, not Ninja Gaiden X. It's it's own game, not just by name as it breaks from the linear formula halfway through.

Originally posted by Moon:

To elaborate.

The enemies are neutered. Adrenaline has been siphoned out . The screen resolution is much longer than NG is giving more reaction, rather than increase the enemy's speed to compensate enemies are actually slower compared to NG, they either sit patiently waiting for the player to engage them at their leisure or crawl towards him at the speed of a goomba.

Enemies in this are not very challenging on their own. They are used in conjunction with level design, to vary their effectiveness. There also isn't a huge amount of variety as the same few are re-used constantly across all levels, though each level does have its own unique ones.

Originally posted by Moon:

They also do not spawn infinitely or come out at with little warning, or at unexpected angles, or in ways which would make platforming tricky.

Those statements aren't quite accurate. They do spawn infinitely, both in the sense that if you go backwards enemies have respawned, similar to how it was in Megaman, and that there are certain parts of the game where some enemies behave similar to the flying medusa heads in Castlevania, constantly spawning. This can potentially make platforming tricky, though in my experience it really didn't.

Originally posted by Moon:

The sense of urgency and speed than NG had is completely gone from Messanger. It's like the whole thing is made for people that have no reaction time. Again I understand this is the first level but even if you compare the first level of NG3, your game is hard-casual.*

As someone already pointed out, the difficulty curve is more gradual. Though I will admit, this game is pretty damn easy. But as someone who enjoyed NG on the NES as a kid, I don't really seem to care as much as you do about comparing this to them.

It's clear The Messenger took inspiration from NG, but it's not trying to become a spiritual successor.

Originally posted by Moon:

Health, checkpoints, and lives are plentiful, freeing the player from the burden of danger and excitement Health pick ups are in plainsite and can even drop from enemies. I saw more health drops in the first 12 minutes of this game than exist in the entiry of the NG trilogy combined. Checkpoints seem so frequent they are like save-states and with infinite lives dying is a slap on the wrist. Save files: NG3 had finite continues and 1&2 still had you restarting from the beginning eventually because it didn't offer a save or password feature (you eventually have to turn the console off). So across all boards, the risk and thrill of a death that sends you far back is gone.

Everything you've said here is spot on. There are a ridiculous amount of checkpoints and health drops frequently enough for it to rarely become a problem to seasoned players of the genre. This is something I kept noticing during my playthrough.

Originally posted by Moon:

Something tells me the game won't even have 1-hit kill pits.

You're wrong there.

Originally posted by Moon:

It looks well below the level of not just Ninja Gaiden but of pretty much all the big names of the 8 and 16 bit consoles.

If you focus on difficulty, then yes. The Messenger is incredibly easy, even near the end. It really doesn't ever become too challenging.

But in terms of directly comparing the two I don't really feel like it's trying to be anything other than its own game, with clear inspiration taken from other earlier platformers.

If you mean it's well below the level of difficulty, they you'd be correct for the most part. But in terms of quality, not at all. It might be easy but it's well designed.

[Lagrange]

This is a bad review. You assume the enemies are present to pose as a combat challenge like Guacamelee when their role is to thwart your momentum and movement, which they do as you progress. Movement and platforming is the highlight of the title, not combat. Its definitely easier in the beginning, but well placed enemies and enemy projectiles serve as both a deterrence and a means to improvise on your movement when ascending or descending when you reach higher levels. The game isn't about being "easy" or "hard" but optimzing your gameplay with the skills the Messenger has. The game is less bumpy at times but can exponentially increase difficulty when the level calls for the simultaneous use of multiple utilities in order to avoid danger in the quickest manner possible. It is about repetition of a hard level through which you build your intuition for future levels than raw button mashing.

Checkpoints are scattered and not as frequent as you think. I don't see the point of having only a few checkpoints for you to grind through levels you already have only to die on the same challenging point over and over till you get it. This is not a rogue-like game. Maybe you should play the game before spouting out tier 4 reviews after watching a 12-minute clip on YouTube. Steam is already filled with people who can't review a game properly.

[KiRA]

How can one make an opinion based on other videos i just dont get it. Its like watching an speedrunner beating any Ninja Gaiden game while saying i saw it its an easy game. OP you have no credibility when your only opinion is soley based on others but not on your own experience. And btw even the original Ninja Gaiden devs praised this game.

Originally posted by MakoSucks:

Poor design choices? i disagree. Ninja Gaiden 2 the Dark Sword of Chaos is perfectly designed to be difficult, and fast paced, and that's why it's still considered a classic.

Almost all the NES library is considered today classic and btw NG2 isnt that good of an game when we talk about perfect design, clunky sword hitbox, respawning aerial enemies that are an nightmare once you have lost your double or dont have an powerup to counter it. Bosses that are designed to do damage regardless how skillful you actually are. Dont let nostalgia fool you.

[Nemesis Whip]

Go get the parts for the Voodoo Mask in the Picnic Panic DLC for this game, then come back and tell me it was easy.

[MrUnbecoming]

Originally posted by Nemesis Whip:

Go get the parts for the Voodoo Mask in the Picnic Panic DLC for this game, then come back and tell me it was easy.

After all this time, they still haven't played it. (on Steam anyway) They are not even allowed to be entitled of an informed opinion. I have 100%'d this game, and I can tell anyone in this thread, that it is challenging. At first, it's fairly easy, but it picks up rather quickly. It's a very well-made game.

[Hill]

have you even played the game?