Why were the fun difficulty-setting names changed?

[ForgottenLore]

The difficulty-setting names were once fun references to the literary styles of various fantasy authors, but they were made into more generic phrases at some point. I personally miss the old names. They were changed from

• C.S. Lewis
  
• J.K. Rowling
  
• George R.R. Martin
  
• H.P. Lovecraft
  
• Custom

to

• Storyteller
  
• Adventurer
  
• Tragic Hero
  
• Walking Lunch
  
• Custom

Was it for clarity, due to the controversial nature of some of those authors, or for some other reason? Is there any chance we could get something like the old names back, possibly adjusted to address whatever concern caused them to be changed?

[Derpykat5]

I would guess it's for clarity since few people have heard of all those authors and even fewer would understand how it corresponds to the difficulty.

[Icedfate]

that is kinda unclear.

Narnia = easy?
Harry Potter = normal?
Game Of Thrones = hard?
Cthulhu = super hard?


i think they made the right decision to change it. .

[Trekopep]

It was a little of both. Clarity-wise, while most players understood it, not all players know who those authors are, and we decided that making more understandable difficulty levels was more important than being overly clever (though we still put a good amount of thought into our current difficulty-level names, to be sure they felt Wildermyth-y). We were never really planning on sticking with the author names forever. But also, yes, Rowling's statements about trans people back in 2020 were certainly a catalyst for this discussion. (Also, Lovecraft definitely wasn't a great person either)

[Nakos]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

I would guess it's for clarity since few people have heard of all those authors ...

I ... I question your understanding of just exactly how famous each of those authors are. Every single one of them is a giant in genre and/or sub-genre they wrote in (in the case of the two who are no longer alive) or write in (in the case of the two who are).

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

and even fewer would understand how it corresponds to the difficulty.

Now that part I agree with. The newer designations are more obvious.

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Nakos:

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

I would guess it's for clarity since few people have heard of all those authors ...

I ... I question your understanding of just exactly how famous each of those authors are. Every single one of them is a giant in genre and/or sub-genre they wrote in (in the case of the two who are no longer alive) or write in (in the case of the two who are).

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

and even fewer would understand how it corresponds to the difficulty.

Now that part I agree with. The newer designations are more obvious.

This isn't a game aimed at literature fans. It's entirely possible that somebody has never heard of those authors or read a book written by them. Just because you see someone as famous doesn't make them common knowledge.

[Nakos]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

This isn't a game aimed at literature fans. It's entirely possible that somebody has never heard of those authors or read a book written by them. Just because you see someone as famous doesn't make them common knowledge.

This is a game aimed at people who like table top style RPGs. As a demographic they are extremely likely to be familiar with both the actual writing of, and with works derived from all 4 of those authors.

Narnia
Harry Potter
Game of Thrones
Cthulhu

Are you seriously suggesting that those subjects won't ring bells with most people who are likely to be interested in a game like Wildermyth? All four of those writers are objectively famous. That's not "just my opinion", that's a fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_R._R._Martin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._K._Rowling


I'll reiterate: I think the newer difficulty titles (Storyteller, Adventurer, Tragic Hero, and Walking Lunch) are a superior choice for a game, but I still think you're underestimating the fame, impact and reach those 4 authors have had.

[Cahos Rahne Veloza]

I come from playing Turn Based Strategy games like XCOM and Super Robot Wars. And I'm well aware of Narnia, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones and Lovecraftian Lore. But most of my Weeaboo friends don't care for things NOT animé or Mamga related, so yeah the references would mean nothing to them. At least I'm currently the only one amongst my real life friends who plays this game.

[Icedfate]

i get it that the game of thrones difficulty is like hard mode because "everyone dies. . .then winter comes. . .with frost zombies. . " and then cthulhu difficulty is "this way lies madness, only the insane would play this level", but the other 2 is unclear why narnia is considered easier than harry potter. maybe because it's for younger kids than harry potter and it's an easier read?

[Dorok]

Myself I would have add a tooltip and a colour code clarifying the difficulty levels. And then instead of using writers probably because they are quite famed in current time, I would have pick a carefully selected set.

I'm not the dev and it would be the dev to make the selection, but just for the posting:
- Jack Vance because the game writing evoked me the most some his later Fantasy writing, also it's not a bad quote because he wrote a series of novella Dying Earth that should have inspired D&D magic system, et least first edition even if yes the inspiration base is Tolkien.
- Tolkien because you can't omit him when it's about Fantasy authors.
- JL Borges just because of those paradoxical books in 3 or 4 words the game has, that's typically Borgesian.
- Lovercraft because of the imaginary and even if the game writing is no way Lovercraftian.

But yeah tooltips and color code would have just let dev make their list without fame bothering and keep idea of writers names.

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Myself I would have add a tooltip and a colour code clarifying the difficulty levels. And then instead of using writers probably because they are quite famed in current time, I would have pick a carefully selected set.

I'm not the dev and it would be the dev to make the selection, but just for the posting:
- Jack Vance because the game writing evoked me the most some his later Fantasy writing, also it's not a bad quote because he wrote a series of novella Dying Earth that should have inspired D&D magic system, et least first edition even if yes the inspiration base is Tolkien.
- Tolkien because you can't omit him when it's about Fantasy authors.
- JL Borges just because of those paradoxical books in 3 or 4 words the game has, that's typically Borgesian.
- Lovercraft because of the imaginary and even if the game writing is no way Lovercraftian.

But yeah tooltips and color code would have just let dev make their list without fame bothering and keep idea of writers names.

Colors aren't a very good way of defining difficulty.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Myself I would have add a tooltip and a colour code clarifying the difficulty levels. And then instead of using writers probably because they are quite famed in current time, I would have pick a carefully selected set.

I'm not the dev and it would be the dev to make the selection, but just for the posting:
- Jack Vance because the game writing evoked me the most some his later Fantasy writing, also it's not a bad quote because he wrote a series of novella Dying Earth that should have inspired D&D magic system, et least first edition even if yes the inspiration base is Tolkien.
- Tolkien because you can't omit him when it's about Fantasy authors.
- JL Borges just because of those paradoxical books in 3 or 4 words the game has, that's typically Borgesian.
- Lovercraft because of the imaginary and even if the game writing is no way Lovercraftian.

But yeah tooltips and color code would have just let dev make their list without fame bothering and keep idea of writers names.

Colors aren't a very good way of defining difficulty.

Really? What's Red?

Then start from Red, Orange, Yellow, then you have the choice, white or just Green.

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Colors aren't a very good way of defining difficulty.

Really? What's Red?

Then start from Red, Orange, Yellow, then you have the choice, white or just Green.

If the colors were there on their own then it could be passable, but just having those colors as the background of the box with text in it is going to make people fail to understand that those colors have meaning.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Derpykat5:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Really? What's Red?

Then start from Red, Orange, Yellow, then you have the choice, white or just Green.

If the colors were there on their own then it could be passable, but just having those colors as the background of the box with text in it is going to make people fail to understand that those colors have meaning.

I bet more that most people would see instantly the Rainbow. And for those having problems with colours they would move the cursor to any difficulty and see the tooltip. But eventually a symbol icon could be added.

Difficulty names don't need be clear, just what is the hardest or what is the easiest need be clear, and even that is coded, the easiest is always the first, the top.

No dev won't sort them, and only a detailed description can really give more information. Gave up the idea of author names wasn't necessary.

[76561199007339512]

Originally posted by Dorok:

- Tolkien because you can't omit him when it's about Fantasy authors.

Farmer Giles of Ham has a 0% fatality rate. LotR is in the vicinity of 10%. The Hobbit is over 50%. The Silmarillion is many stories a lot of which have very high fatality rates.

The more you know about his works the less clearly he indicates a specific difficulty.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by nbrown0:

Originally posted by Dorok:

- Tolkien because you can't omit him when it's about Fantasy authors.

Farmer Giles of Ham has a 0% fatality rate. LotR is in the vicinity of 10%. The Hobbit is over 50%. The Silmarillion is many stories a lot of which have very high fatality rates.

The more you know about his works the less clearly he indicates a specific difficulty.

And why it needs be amount of death? That was the initial point?

If that' the point LoTR has wars and many death and Lovercraft is no match.

I don't think it's a strong point of Borges, nor Vance, but Vance would won.

Jorge Luis Borges - White - Pencil Icon or Paper icon
Jack Vance - Yellow - Staff icon or Thin book icon
Howard Phillips Lovercraft - Orange - Sword cross icon or Huge book icon
John Ronald Reuel Tolkien - Red - Skull icon or Library icon