Question on Warrior Builds

[Wulf]

SO, I have been playing with builds in this game to figure out what I like best.

Mystics seem to be Ignite+, Elemental, Open mind and Vigor, tried other kinds and they all seem to come up short in comparison. As for the Ignite Mystic itself, its a one trick pony with one hell of a trick, but not as fun or team friendly as Hunter or Warrior, maybe that is just me though.

Hunter is really fun. Rogue, Sharpshooter, Ambush, Piercing Shot+, Through Shot+, super fun, lots of synergy and works well with others in the group.

Warrior which is my favorite so far. I am torn between two different builds. I was hoping to poke the minds of some folks smarter than me for DMG and kill numbers, which of these two is better.

Warrior Variant 1 - (Great)Spear, Broadswipe+. Battle Dance+, Zealot Leap+, Long Reach

This moves quickly through the board, tends to get beat up though, but kills things once it engages them, which will be sooner or later. I feel that Zealot Leap allows me to pull off two attacks with Battle Dance. Though I would like a better description on how Battle Dance works, been looking around and have not found an in depth talk about its mechanics and how it works with other abilities.

Warrior Variant 2 - (Great)Spear, Broadswipe+. Paladin+, Vigilance+, Long Reach

Now, I feel this gets me the most kills and keeps my warrior and team the safest. It doesn't have the movement of Variant 1, which means engaging can take a moment longer. However once he claims a space, like right next to everyone else, whether he is able to attack or not, when they try to charge him, run past or get away, he starts eating through everyone. Downside, he is slow, and takes his time getting into position.


Both builds are fun and worth using!

So, anyone who has done number crunching, or has tested the difference in abilities or can give me a more in depth explanation of the different abilities that I may not be fully understanding, please feel free to make a comment.

[Perception312]

I think Bard is a good substitute for Nimble Nature if you're not planning to use themes for now.

[Wulf]

Update on test

About to clear Chapter 2
I know, taking so long, lots of games to play

Alpha Team Survives
Warrior level 5 - Vigilance, Long Reach, Paladin, Broadswipes+ - 25 kills
Hunter Level 4 - Through Shot, Piercing Shots+, Rogue - 15 kills
Mystic Level 4 - Ignite+, Heroism, Long Reach - 22 kills

Struggled a bit until level 3, once about level three each of them has been holding their own, Warrior and Mystic sometimes even holding off different sections of the Map on their own as the Hunter moves to support them as needed.

Warrior though has low speed and lacks mobility, placing him properly has him clearing enemies as they try to get past him or to him. Proper placement can stall and end fights within just a few rounds.

Ignite Mystic is a power house, placement almost doesn't matter, just ignite something and keep the fire moving between and through enemies and they burn. I can't help but imagine my Mystic laughing and taking deep breathes taking in the smell of charred, bubbling flesh as his enemies plead and beg for him to stop.

Hunter is doing exactly what I expect the hunter to do, every shot of the bow something dies keeping her in constant hidden, I have her set in armor that increases their potency while hidden so it makes her hit that much harder.

I am hoping in chapter 3 I can start working on the second Warrior variation to see how it competes within my playstyle.

I think I made one mistake so far, my warrior got a hold of a water elemental greatspear, I think this would have been more effective in the hands of my Hunter. I may see if I can backtrack and see who gets the weapon.

[alexshiro]

I think you're wasting points on Piercing Shot. If you're in stealth you don't need it. Imo hunter dream build is Rogue, Thornfang+, Long Reach+, Through Shot+, with water bow and dagger

Also I'd expect the hunter to be deadliest until chapter 3 or later, but i never actually counted.

On a Paladin I like to have a water speal and a steel or rock hammer. I don't like long reach and broadswipes on paladin since enemies come one at a time

[Wulf]

Messaggio originale di alexshiro:

I think you're wasting points on Piercing Shot. If you're in stealth you don't need it. Imo hunter dream build is Rogue, Thornfang+, Long Reach+, Through Shot+, with water bow and dagger

Also I'd expect the hunter to be deadliest until chapter 3 or later, but i never actually counted.

On a Paladin I like to have a water speal and a steel or rock hammer. I don't like long reach and broadswipes on paladin since enemies come one at a time

Fair point, I originally thought Piercing Shot gave damage based on Potency, but after rereading, thats is the number of armor penetration it gains.

However, I disagree with you on Thornfang, I find it to be not required in my playstyle and how I use my Hunters. I use them as range dmg, picking off enemies and taking down groups when possible.

Warrior is easily the deadliest if build right.

We all have our opinions. I don't like the idea of a hammer on my Warrior. As for enemies only come in one at a time, that doesn't mean broadsweipes gets wasted on only one enemy. So far the Spear with Long Reach is amazing, he generates a massive no movement zone.

So, what I do, is I move him into position where there are three or four enemies all in his reach, using his double movement, but Paladin allows him to still go into guard. The moment one of the enemies move or a new enemy moves into range he hits them all. Now sometimes he doesn't kill them all on the first sweep, but the second monsters move, he kills them all.

I have had chunky bosses get taken down by smaller enemies continuously triggering vigilance and broadswipes by stepping into my Warriors range.

[Perception312]

On the subject of ranged hunters, I would argue that Piercing Shots is better than Rogue because it is more consistent as long as you have decent potency, but it's true that having both is a bit redundant. To get more damage from potency, I recommend Ember Arrows, with a torch in your second weapon set. Setting debris on fire removes you from stealth, making Rogue even less attractive compared to Piercing Shots, which works fine without stealth.

Archer: Throughshot+, Piercing Shots, Ember Arrows, Archery — Water bow, with crossbow + torch on swap. Good level 6-7 ability choices include Sharpshooter, Bard, and Heroism.
Best armor: Swayth (crazy improvement to your water stunt chance = more attacks).

[Wulf]

Messaggio originale di Perception312:

On the subject of ranged hunters, I would argue that Piercing Shots is better than Rogue because it is more consistent as long as you have decent potency, but it's true that having both is a bit redundant. To get more damage from potency, I recommend Ember Arrows, with a torch in your second weapon set. Setting debris on fire removes you from stealth, making Rogue even less attractive compared to Piercing Shots, which works fine without stealth.

Archer: Throughshot+, Piercing Shots, Ember Arrows, Archery — Water bow, with crossbow + torch on swap. Good level 6-7 ability choices include Sharpshooter, Bard, and Heroism.
Best armor: Swayth (crazy improvement to your water stunt chance = more attacks).

I will look into doing that, removing Rogue that is.

I tried Ember Arrows, I really wanted to like it, I just found it to not be very consistent. If I had a way to keep it consistent, I would use it far more often.

Love sharpshooter, considering Heroism.

I have been using the Rotshawn gear for extra potency, Swayth boost Stunt, I may look into making my Hunter more Stunt based, make my warrior more Potency....

Whats a good armor for Warriors? Been running Scale for added accuracy, considered Cowling and Gard for a stunt warrior, but most their skills scale with potency

[76561199007339512]

I'd suggest replacing Rogue with Archery. If you're not killing all ranged attacking foes before they can act clumping your team around an archer with through-shot+ will kill most of them. The value does depend on the enemy, but it gets one out of turn shot for every shot taken at you if you're properly clumped.

Water bow is not necessarily ideal if most of your attacks are from Archery since attacks out of your turn don't benefit from it but do suffer the reduced stunt damage.

[Wulf]

Ok, so I made it to Chapter 5.

Group Alpha Warrior: Great Spear, Vigilance+, Long Reach, Paladin+, Broadswipes+ - over 80 kills

Group Bravo Warrior: Great Spear, Broadswipe, Zealous Leap+, Paladin+, Vigilance+ - over 40 kills

Group Charlie Warrior: Great Spear, Broadswipe+. Battle Dance+, Zealot Leap+, Long Reach - Over 40 kills

Out of the three I have come to rely, enjoy and see smoother combat with Alpha Groups Warrior. He isn't as mobile, but he doesn't need to be, he can double move into the enemies and Guardian triggers from Paladin+, gets 4 attacks on any enemy entering his threat range.

This is on Tragic Hero difficulty.
I tried running 3 man teams, 1 of each class.
Mod - Free Ability rerolls

As stated, I tried to keep 3 man teams, however Group Bravo and Group Charlie needed to be boosted to 4 man teams to be able to handle what my Alpha team was able to handle. Alpha team remained 1 Warrior, 1 Hunter and 1 Mystic.

Thank you everyone for your input, opinions and suggestions. I tried out most of it, learned a lot. I have found my favorite Warrior Build that fits my playstyle.

I hope this thread has helped others looking for information on builds. There is good details on warriors, hunters and mystics here, please take a moment to read every post as just about everyone has posted messages worth reading and learning from!

[Derpykat5]

One thing to consider is that you aren't always going to get those perfect builds. You used free ability rerolls to get exactly the abilities you wanted, but there are some abilities that aren't as useful without their complimentary build. Paladin in particular is very underwhelming until upgraded, and even then requires a speedy warrior to actually get into proper positions, and Vigilance to really make it more than a tradeoff.

You wight have found your favorite build, but there's still the question of whether the game will give you that build.

[76561199007339512]

Messaggio originale di Derpykat5:

One thing to consider is that you aren't always going to get those perfect builds. You used free ability rerolls to get exactly the abilities you wanted, but there are some abilities that aren't as useful without their complimentary build. Paladin in particular is very underwhelming until upgraded, and even then requires a speedy warrior to actually get into proper positions, and Vigilance to really make it more than a tradeoff.

You wight have found your favorite build, but there's still the question of whether the game will give you that build.

If you avoid transformations other than blueskinned or the purely cosmetic deepist spy from Monarchs and pets other than the pinecone it's doable from Mythwalker without too much rerolling if you have no transformations other than blueskinned and no pets other than the pinecone to put more skills in the fourth card pool.

This would be a very boring way to play, though.

I consider 5 abilities the upper limit for a build. The equivalent to Wulf's would be Vigilance Paladin+ Broadswipes Reach. I'd like to get to his build, but if I can't get exactly what I want because Long Reach+ or a theme upgrade crops up as the fourth skill card that has to be acceptable.

[Wulf]

Messaggio originale di Derpykat5:

One thing to consider is that you aren't always going to get those perfect builds. You used free ability rerolls to get exactly the abilities you wanted, but there are some abilities that aren't as useful without their complimentary build. Paladin in particular is very underwhelming until upgraded, and even then requires a speedy warrior to actually get into proper positions, and Vigilance to really make it more than a tradeoff.

You wight have found your favorite build, but there's still the question of whether the game will give you that build.

Your right. I used a MoD to give me free rerolls, because I will be honest, I don't like getting random crap I don't want or like on my characters. I don't like the random ability rolls in this game, only thing I don't care for.

So, I would do what I did before I found the MoD. Save, reload, give one reroll, no abilities I like, reload, even if I have to redo the whole fight again. The mod I am using just saves me time from doing reloads to make sure I am getting abilities I want on my characters.

You don't even need a speedy Warrior, use all your actions for movement to get your Warrior into position. enemies can't avoid your threaten space if they start in the threatened space.

As for Paladin, along with other abilities seem to come off as combo abilities, they work better when combo'd with other abilities. Paladin and Vigilance are ok, or underwhelming when alone, but like Battledance and Zealot Leap, when taken together, they become much strong.

Earlier you made a comment knocking reaction builds on higher difficulties, I am now playing on higher difficulty and this reaction build is still doing well.

[Wulf]

Messaggio originale di nbrown0:

Messaggio originale di Derpykat5:

One thing to consider is that you aren't always going to get those perfect builds. You used free ability rerolls to get exactly the abilities you wanted, but there are some abilities that aren't as useful without their complimentary build. Paladin in particular is very underwhelming until upgraded, and even then requires a speedy warrior to actually get into proper positions, and Vigilance to really make it more than a tradeoff.

You wight have found your favorite build, but there's still the question of whether the game will give you that build.

If you avoid transformations other than blueskinned or the purely cosmetic deepist spy from Monarchs and pets other than the pinecone it's doable from Mythwalker without too much rerolling if you have no transformations other than blueskinned and no pets other than the pinecone to put more skills in the fourth card pool.

This would be a very boring way to play, though.

I consider 5 abilities the upper limit for a build. The equivalent to Wulf's would be Vigilance Paladin+ Broadswipes Reach. I'd like to get to his build, but if I can't get exactly what I want because Long Reach+ or a theme upgrade crops up as the fourth skill card that has to be acceptable.

Boring? Depends on the Player and the Character. If I am to be honest, many of the theme additions don't interest me beyond cosmetics. I like getting Spelltouched and Wolf Theme on my Warrior.

I would strongly suggest Vigilance+ instead of Paladin+, but thats just me and my playstyle.

If you do make your own version of the build, let me know. I would like to hear how it does and what changes you made to fit your personal taste and playstyle.

[76561199007339512]

Messaggio originale di Wulf:

Boring? Depends on the Player and the Character. If I am to be honest, many of the theme additions don't interest me beyond cosmetics. I like getting Spelltouched and Wolf Theme on my Warrior.

I would strongly suggest Vigilance+ instead of Paladin+, but thats just me and my playstyle.

If you do make your own version of the build, let me know. I would like to hear how it does and what changes you made to fit your personal taste and playstyle.

A lot of the games content is in the form of themes and by ignoring them you miss out. And themes aren't just transformations. Pets are also themes. You can't use any that will pollute your talent pool -- which includes wolf -- if you want to reliably get a 7 talent build with a reasonable number of rerolls. Second reroll per level up costs 4 LP so if you have more than one upgrade talent (one from a theme or one with a '+') available that isn't part of your build you can wind up needing to spend 12 LP instead of a maximum of 4.

If you aren't using the terminal attack of Paladin+ it's a waste of a skill. If you are, which I do, and you don't prioritize it you're at risk of forgetting that you don't have it yet when you recruit from legacy and failing to go into guard. The other option is to drop Long Reach entirely and settle for spear reach.

Vigilance+ is nice to have, but lacking it reduces power rather than removing functionality. I play with a single 5 hero party. An extra Hunter or Igniter or Lorax will help thin enemies out before they reach the tank. An extra warrior will probably help tank directly.

And I don't know how you've gotten the impression I don't use this build. I just don't only use this build.

[it's shoe]

Crow transformation with scorpion tail and long reach+ on a warrior is fantastic. Even more so if you can get battledance+ or broadswipes. You can put down so many attacks on so many targets in a single turn.

[76561199007339512]

Messaggio originale di it's shoe:

Crow transformation with scorpion tail and long reach+ on a warrior is fantastic. Even more so if you can get battledance+ or broadswipes. You can put down so many attacks on so many targets in a single turn.

There's so much overlap between between battledance and scorpion tail that I'd suggest using the fox tail if you're going to use battledance. That lets you use a fox tail which gives an extra tile of movement among other things. Presumably you're specifying wings because you want your movement high to increase battledance+ range. If you're already grabbing long reach+ I would find it surprising if a spear or greatspear didn't offer sufficient reach and you can get a water stunt on it, which you can't do on the scorpion tail.

Scorpion tail shines when you either don't have room for battledance or can't qualify for it because you're not building a warrior.