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0) Yes, the game is meant to be played with coaching the 3D matches ; I added the option to also play by ourselves for the people enjoying that. :-)
1) Hum, I think you didn't understand how it works : each CPU player has a determined skill level per year and so their skills don't change for the whole year (except the Surface & Form skills, plus the Injury Risk).
So they don't train.
So maybe your issue is that in the fictional years (ie: 2020 & after) the top players don't stay at the top for many years ?
I did a change about that in the last couple of months but it should still be quite rare to see a player dominate the Tour for more than 3 or 4 years. In real-life we just lived exceptional times and I think the ATP future will likely more look like the WTA tour with weaker number 1 players.
2) Your issue is with the potentials or the max level of the skills ?
The formula for each skill is : Potential = (100 + MaxSkillLevel) / 2.
For Federer, I don't think he deserves a 100% in skill or potential in either Power, Consistency or Precision. In all these aspects, it's possible to do better than Federer. What separates Federer from the rest, it's what he chooses to do with his FH, ie: how smart he is, and how well he knows what he can do with it in each particular situation. This is difficult to transcribe in a game ; the Tactic skill fits a bit the bill but it's not exactly that either.
For Sampras' serve, his most notable particularity was to be able to very often do an ace (or a very good serve) when in need ; again, the basic Power / Consistency / Precision skills don't help to reflect that.
And I actually spent a lot of time to minimize the number of skills reaching 100%, so each player feels more unique... :-)
3) For the next update, I just disabled the tiredness for practice sets for the CPU players ; it was indeed an exploit to make them tired.
4) Does it happen for real players ? Or only for fictional players ?
I tuned that a lot so top singles players shouldn't play too many doubles tournaments. However, I set them on the year they played the most doubles tournaments in real life, so it might still be higher in-game than in real life on average.
5) I think it'd feel unfair if the CPU could use their XP. Plus it'd make everything very hard to balance. >_<
6) You can easily make the top players even stronger. Get the Modding SDK from here : https://www.managames.com/Forum/topic11-31376.php .
Copy GameSys.ini in the correct place and then open it and locate this line, under [WT_SkillNormAtp] :
HighNorm = 0.87
To get 89% average in skills, change it to :
HighNorm = 0.89
(#1 players can get up to +6%, so that would do a max of 95% on average)
7) If you have the time & the mood to write a positive review of the game on its Steam store page, it's always welcome ! :-)
Hey manu :)
Thanks for your very detailed answer !!!
Yes, you were right:
I wasnt aware of the underlying mechanic reflecting the AI Players skill levels :(( I indeed thought, they would train like ourself^^
In the meantime, i dived even deeper into your game algorithmus and learned by reading your explanation regarding modding in your forum...
So sorry, for wasting your time with my not throroughly thought through question :P
I had even began to play around with lifting the skills of the top players of each period by just raising their ranking destination for each year and even make them stronger with giving them those 1.05, 2.03, and so on...you got me^^
One question still remains for me:
Can it lead to conflicts when i have a few or even more players, whose goal are to end the given year at Number 1 position ???
Or is this just decided by the outcome of the tournaments, means one of them, whose had Number 1 goal for the year, is lucky...and the other ones are just falling short...
Or will this give the other ones unnatural boosts in skill levels because the game engine is trying hard to compensate this, so they would end up at No. 1
(which would be by some part working as intended by me^^)
many thanks for your detailed explanation in 6., i want even aware of this possibility
to 7., will do so^^
Cheers
Very cool ! I thought so already by myself, but didnt wanted to run into trouble 10 years later in my career^^
One skill, i wanted to ask you about your impression:
FOCUS !!
I know how it works, the better Focus is into comparison with (speed + muscle tonus)/2, the better and the quicker the player makes his preparation for his strike...and it basically represents the final footwork of a player in real life
So far, so good
But in my view, watching even hundreds of pure AI matches during important tournaments (yeah, i like it the hard way :P), it looks to me lately as a bit overpowered, looking to me the most important skill at all
In fact, it is even better to have a very slow player with high focus than a very fast and nimble player with mediocre focus:
The one with the better focus ratio most time wins, even when he has worser fore- and backhands...
This is right also in my view, when the one with the worser focus ratio gets under pressure, having not enough time to prepare his strike properly and doing this way a fault... i congratulate you on this mechanic
But even on the opposite, when the player has enough time to prepare his strike during a rally, because of a slow ball, or on slow surfaces at all, the one with the better focus seems always to have a bit of a too much advantage
I watches this in several matches lately, and my prediction of the final result was most times correctly, given that both has the same daily form and taking also the "nerves" of both into account, when i placed my money on the one with the better focus ratio.
I watched this also when i had recently matches with my own player against Boris becker and Michael Stich, which both has, atlleast in my current savegame, a focus ratio around 0.9, when my player has one around 1.2 or better... i won easily even when all my other skills are a good portion worser than theirs
You could also see this visual: most times, they came too late for a proper strike on the ball !
Again, this is right also in my view but only to a certain point...and it looks to me as a bit exaggerated currently
Sorry for going that much into detail...but you looks to me as a dev, who wants to optimize your game and your engine as good as you can...therefore the feedback :)
keep up the good work and your examplary good connection with your players :)
I had really underestimated the strength of the effect..!
In the Training Club, to test the bonus, I put 2 players with 80% in all their skills, and then set 1 with 73% in Speed & Muscle Tone, and 94% in Tonus ; for the handicap, I did the same except for the 2nd player got 87% in Speed & Muscle Tone and 66% in Focus.
I mostly tested on Blue-Green cement. The results are somewhat similar on Clay, but on Grass they differ a bit.
So for the next update, it should be noticeably more balanced, thanks to your report ! :-)
And also thanks for your nice review !
One little thing about it : the Pro-10 is the default level for the CPU vs CPU match, and it should be indeed the most realistic one as I do all my tests & tuning with it.
Youre welcome, i am glad to help :)
Regarding your testing, my impression was, that even when you would put Player 1 with 80 % in ALL skills (also Focus, Speed and Muscle Tone) against Player B with same skills, but raising ONLY speed and muscle tone to 100 %,, Player 1 would win most times !
Because Player B got an "unbalanced" footwork doing so for most on his strikes...
And that indeed looked wrong^^
On the other hand, your overall idea with the balance of speed, muscle tone on one side and focus on the other side, is a real great concept and depicts reality very well !
So i congatulate you again for this :)
I just fear that lowering the bonus and handicap in your reported way may be even a bit over the top... ???
I think, halving the bonus/handicap would be enough
Because the system is great and it should be reckognizable, when a Player has a great footwork (like again Roger Federer f.e.) and a high focus ratio depicts this very well !!
But i am happy to test your balance changes when they come out and give you feedback
Either way, cheers mate :)
However, I'm not sure how it'll go when the Focus bonus/handicap is only 5 or 10%.
But in my calculation, I didn't take into account that the Stamina also should follow the Speed skill, so it increases a bit the bonus/handicap.
But if you do some tests and find out some unbalance, let me know ! :-)
Note : the Focus is the ability to prepare the strikes quickly, it's not related to footwork. But indeed, Federer is a player that can prepare his strikes quickly and be overall very fast in his strike execution.
Will do so :)
For explanation:
Whenever i say "Focus ratio" i mean Focus ratio = Focus / ((Speed + Muscle Tone) / 2)
Following my impression when watching hundreds of matches with different players, whenever a Player with a Focus ratio lower than 1, gets under pressure by a fast ball during rallies, he has much bigger problems to prepare his strike properly than a Player with a higher than 1 Focus ratio...
And thats how it should be in my opinion because it reflects reality very well, no matter how we translate "Focus" to reality^^
So my concern and why i asked you for your impression about Focus, was just that the Focus ratio was too important, letting even Players with much better fore- and backhand abilities than their opponent, struggle, just because their focus ratio was lower...
You confirmed this with your testing and consequently you will lower the Bonus...thats fine...but dont overdo it^^
In my view, a proper testing of the Bonus and handicap would be to set up 2 identical players against each other, both with 80 % in ALL skills and ofc the same playing style...and then change only 2 parameters, Speed and Muscle Tone !
Give Player 1 70 % in both and Player 2 90 % in both...let everything else the same !
I am pretty sure, in the current system, Player 1 would win the majority of matches, even when he is much slower on his feet, but has a Focus ratio higher than 1...
And i think, we both agree that this would be nonsense :P
I think, you would find the best middleground for Focus related Handicap/Bonus, when the win ratio would be around 50 % or even a bit higher for Player 2 !
How much higher, i would leave to your design decision^^
Sorry to insist mate :)
The way to test is by having similar skill levels (eg: -7% in Speed & -7% Muscle Tone, and +14% in Focus) vs 0% delta everywhere and then aim to get 50/50 win between the 2 players like I outlined in my message earlier.
It's still not perfect though, because it doesn't account for Stamina, and maintaining 1 skill high and 2 skills low (or the opposite) is not exactly the same than maintaining 3 skills at an average level in terms of training commitment, but it's ok enough and already much better than making a player beat other better players by only lowering his Speed & Muscle Tone, which is indeed a complete non-sense like you have outlined..!
Anyway, I just uploaded the update with the fix for the Focus. Please, let me know if it's ok or not..! :-)
No worries mate :)
So is your Hotfix already live ?!
If yes, i have mixed feelings about it:
1. It is much better, FOCUS isnt the by far most dominat skill anymore, which is good :)
2. I fear, you overdone it a bit :(
In my gameplay experience, now FOCUS plays a bit too insignificant role:
Before the change, i could easily "exploit" opponents with low FOCUS RATIO, with putting my own Player far higher up the pitch in the tactical menue with -10, -20 or even -30 Settings at the Baseline, denying the opponent any breathing time and putting him under constant pressure...
This way, i could make his bad Focus Ratio count even more, so essentially he could do only very bad strikes anymore, which are clearly visible at the court, when the strike animations were always out of place...
Ofc this was a bit out off balance before...but now, i usually dont reckognize those "bad strike animations" anymore :(((
I remember a match against Greg Rusedski (yeah, i play with "your" modded SDK files) when he had only 54 % FOUS with around 80 % in Speed and Muscle Tone (so a real bad ratio...)...and i didnt observed much bad strike animations in the match by Rusedski !!
In fact, he should have played most of his strikes unbalanced, especially when he got under pressure !!
But atleast to me, most of his strikes looked very smooth, which isnt right i my view
I had other matches which are backing up this impression but cant remember them anymore...maybe you should test this again...
Completly different question:
How do i read this in the Game.sys file
[WT_FormOfDay]
Active = 1
GoodDayRate = 0.1 // Rate of a good days instead of a bad days
BlendRandom = 0 // If 0, use only FormOfDay from Mental Skills
// If 1, use only Random Average; else, LERP between the 2
BadMax = -0.2 // Max Ratio Lowering
BadAverage = -0.05 // Used only if blending with Random
GoodMax = 0.2 // Max Ratio Raising
GoodAverage = 0.05 // Used only if blending with Random
Thats the default line, but i would like to mod my game the way, that real bad concentration and constancy weighs much more !!
The reason is, in the SDK file are very many low ranked players with incredible high skills BUT very low Concentration, Cold Bloodness and Constancy !
In fact, its a real pattern so i fear, its a Bug and not a Feature :((
Nevertheless, in the tournament, those Players should fall back quite soon because the SHOULD get a bad day very very often...but sadly thats not happen enough !
I tried around with the numbers but couldnt notice big differences ! Ofc its always random whether a bad day happens, so its difficult to monitor.
Therefore i ask you, which numbers i should change, if i want to count low Concentration and Constancy the most !
I dont want to get those "random" results, therefore i want to have "BlendRandom" still at 0...
To get me fully right, i just want that the Stats of each Player count as much as possible :)))
Many thanks mate in advance, you are AWESOME :)
2) You can try to set BadMax to -0.8 and GoodMax to 0.4.
But if you see such a player and didn't modify the SDK player base, then could you send me a Bug Report ? I'll check it's actually normal or not.
In your Tennis.ini, you might want to change this line, under [WT_ScoreSimu], from :
ConcentrationPow= 0.1
to :
ConcentrationPow= 0.05
or even lower (or maybe higher than 0.1 if I'm wrong about my calculation right now
ad 1) I understand :)
ad 2) Very kind of you, but
sadly i changed things in the SDK file, with putting Björn Borg, Jimmy Connors and some other legends to modern tennis by just changing birthday and date of entrance...
Further more, i increased the stats of many other legends a bit to get them stronger...
So it may be, that something went wrong :)
On the other hand, those with the weird stats, are mostly unknown Players, so i guess, you didnt gave all of them, handmade stats, but just generated them by some algorithm xD
This would explain it to me, because my changings shouldnt affect this...
Even more, when i change stats in the Player.ATP, launch the game and then start a new career, everything works fine as long as i dont close the game !
After i restart the game and load the savegame, the stats of most of those unknown Players have suddenly changed when looking in the rankings...leading to this mentionend pattern^^
I also observe this when getting those players to my team:
Even so i always put 4 stars into Potential for my Coach, the skills looks fine BEFORE i get them...and also in the same week after contracting them
In the next week, they switch often to those mentionend low Concentration, low Coldbloodness and low Constancy strain...
Weird, isnt it ? But i for myself wouldnt bother to much with this, if i would be you^^
Thats a VERY special thing happening to me and i am sure, 99% of all other players will never reckognize this... xD
I think, its just because of this mentionend algorithm, which created just too much similar players...
Something which bothers me much more, is NOT that many AI Players have those real low Concentration/Constancy BUT that they seldom get a very bad day, as they should !!!
I mean, i simulate ALL matches from TET 500 and above over the year with just launching them and then fastforward...this gives the most realistic results... :)
But it looks to me more common that Players with usual Concentration/Constancy around 70 -90 gets a bad day as those with stats around 30 - 50 !! Excluding your own Player !!!
Maybe something with your background formula is wrong when the numbers are extremly low for AI Players ???
The same impression i have is when comparing YOUR TEAM Players STRESS Level during matches with those of the AI ones:
I just had a Match, 1st Round in Indian Wells (so no stress involved for getting to semifinal or so...^^), with my Player ranked at 40, having a 100% Day...against an AI Player, ranked at 65, also at 100% with similar OVERALL skill level (so no underestimating should occur by my Player...good mechanic btw mate), BUT with one difference:
My Player has 93% Coldbloodness and the other one only around 50%, so i should win the mindgame, putting the opponent under constant nerve stress^^
But the opposite happened often: MY Player got Stress from time to time just by random points, even when he was leading...ofc the other one got this fundamental stress, when he was Break back...but thats not what i mean
I mean those random stress spikes, which happen from time to time, but shouldnt do so, when my Coldbloodness is much higher than the one of the opponent ! When i understand the underlying mechanic correct^^
Okay mate, i dont want to bothetr you too much with all of this !
You did a great game, with well thought through mechanics...i am just mentioning such things, because you may have an idea what could be going wrong...
If not, i am sure, you have more improtant things to do, so i am not bothered, if you ignore all of this^^
...but i am always happy to give detailed feedback :))
Could you send me a Bug Report when you look the Character Sheet of such changed player ? (if possible, start a new game and get the bug within the 1st weeks of the year)
3) I just checked the formula of the form of the day, and it's working correctly. But if you have noticed some issue, then maybe it could come from the save/load of the Form of the Day or some other weird bug.
Could you note the Form of the Day of your next 20 3D matches for low Concentration/Constancy (ie: both under 30%), and for your new 20 3D matches for high Concentration/Constancy (ie: both above 75%), and then do the averages and tell them to me ? (if it's too much hassle, don't do it ! :-) )
4) The Coldblood don't interact with each other ; it's not a mindgame between the 2 players, it's really about what a player feels inside himself when confronted with stressful situations.
When playing against an opponent less strong than him, your player has a chance (lower with higher Cold Blood) to play less well : this is to simulate the pressure to be the favorite, and to make the matches between top & low players a bit more close. :)
Here the 3 screenshots taken when you did the Bug Reports : https://imgur.com/a/RgUg0tO .
I cannot see a single skill at 100%. So I'm puzzled. It's not what you were seeing on your screen..? :-o