Is it possible for someone to develop a MOD for the AI?

[Mirabilis]

Ride 3 uses Unreal 4, which is a common and well understood game engine. I'm guessing there are a lot of talented people out there who can MOD this engine, and some of them might even be playing Ride 3.

Now, let's take it as a given that Milestone hired cheap when they hired the guy that does the AI for Ride 3.

Is it possible for someone to MOD the AI in this game and bypass the wonky AI it ships with? I'm wondering if in-depth MODs for the game are supported or are possible. I'm sure there'd be a lot of grateful people out there if you could.

Its just a suggestion made more in hope than expectation, but ti would be nice. If someone wants to show off their AI chops, go for it!

[^4JB^7L^1ZR]

im sure you could do better and 100% spot on with your over the top asumptions

[Axe]

... err anyway.

OP. I would love a mod like this for personal adjustments but it's a shame some people like yourself are calling it broken. I'm not having a pop OP () but I'd hate someone to come along and read this to only believe the game is unplayable.

Just balancing the thread up a little. The game is far from broken as it's the best I have ever played on PC personaly as I don't have any consoles for comparison there.

Just say'n ;-)

[Mirabilis]

If I could do this myself, I would. That's why I'm asking others if they can.

Have a look at Euro Truck Simulator 2. The modders for that are outstanding - very often achieving something way beyond what the original programmers managed themselves. I'm not so much belittling the task of improving the AI as making it clear that there are people out there who are extremely talented who are willing to give their time over to improve original games.

The AI in Ride 3 is clearly substandard. You may be happy with it. If you are, I'm glad for you. Sadly most racing games can manage something way superior to the AI as it stands at the moment. I'm absolutely sure that someone out there is talented enough, and willing to give their time, to bring it up to industry standard if they had the tools to do so. As you say, its a good game - it can only be better if the AI was on a par with the state of most racing games.

There are some factors that make bike AI more difficult - contact with other players is a no-no in real bike races. To recreate this the AI must not contact the player or any other AI during the race, something that is difficult to do when the player is unpredictable.

The other thing that is tricky is the need for the bikes to lean in and the riders to adjust weight smoothly. If you look carefully at racing games with cars, the AI is very jerky on the wheel. You may not notice jerkiness on a car simulation but you would on a bike sim. That makes the smoothness of the AI in Ride 3 important in a way that it wouldn't be on a car sim.

This is not impossible to do, but it does make the AI more difficult. In Ride 3, the smoothness problem is dealt with quite well by the AI, but the rider contact problem is ignored. Bikes bump and jostle each other in a way that is unrealistic. If the intention is to make a console game then this is fine. For a simulation its weak.

I can imagine that someone with real talent would love to take on the challenge of improving the AI to make it simulation standard, rather than console standard. Its a difficult task. Surely someone with the skill would relish the challenge.

I never said the game was unplayable. I would not discourage anyone from buying the game if they like console-style games.

[Axe]

Like I said; I was just say'n... ;-)

[Mirabilis]

Sure Axe. Your opinion matters. Feel free to air your views, and even have a pop at me about any nonsense I talk if you don't agree. That's how minds are changed. :D

[Axe]

Not at all Mirabilis :-)

You are highlighting issues yourself and others are having and of course they are as relevant as anyone elses. I personaly just tend to make the best of what is on offer notwithstanding game breakers.

I will stand as high as I can in the reporting of such disregard of the consumer when paying good hard earned money for a leisure activity (choice) whether it be a night at the cinema or the pleasure we should expect in a restaurant of our choosing of the local pizzaria. We all demand excellence and I am no different as so should be the aim of these purveyors of customer based content.

To me it's all about customer rights and that is is where I will always lay my hat no matter from where and to whom I speak.

Please do carry on and ignore me. I was just making a small point which may just balance the disciussion :-)

Your points and 'argument/standpoint' makes perfect sense.

[Mirabilis]

Well Axe, it seems we both agree. It can sometimes be hard to criticise a game that people like.
If I spend a lot of time in a game I enjoy and someone comes along and criticises it I want to defend it, too. The hard part is realising that even a game I really enjoy can still be improved.

At the end of the day if we get a better product, everyone's happy. And yes, even Milestone will be happy as they will sell more copies of Ride 3. The hard better is deciding on how to make it better.

[Axe]

Who could disagree with that but my main 'concern' as always is the devs never (rarely) seem to gel with the customers issues and problems. They always seems to be on the back-foot as if to suggest they cannot at all be at any fault. Miilestone who has been derided for YEARS also does not ever communicate with their customers so it devalues our views and conversations in their forums, sadly.

Carry on but do not be expected to be even recognised let alone heard...

[Mirabilis]

The solution would be competition. Milestone make the only serious motorcycle games on the market. If someone new, with funding and talent, could start producing motorcycle simulations and releasing them on Steam I'm pretty sure Milestone would up their game. They would have to, or go bust.

I've never understood why more developers haven't entered the motorcycle simulation market. Ride 3 must be selling well, and a good new simulation would be sure to do well as Milestone's products are quite weak and their connection to the community is so poor.

A talented indy developer would be wise to consider it. Automobolista proves you don't need a big budget, lots of official license and a huge development team to make an excellent racing sim that can challenge for the top. The motorcycle sim market is ripe for a small developer to come in and steal Milestone's thunder. It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened.

[Jez Hammond]

Given the tools then yes it could be like Assetto Corsa where modders could redo AI line(s). But that game/sim is mod-friendly so we have stuff that then allows us to refine the AI behaiviour, such things really require co-operation with the developers.

Due to all of the announced DLC over the next year, I can't see the game being voluntarily made open to create such things. If a bunch of 3rd-party bikes started to appear for example, then this would conflict with IAP, I mean DLC.

But there is no announcement for tracks, so I still hope someone wants to make a tool that allows us to import say Snaefell from another game that we might own. IMO I own the data and will do with it as I please on my own PC! Regardless of instruction.

[Jez Hammond]

...and yes this indie is certainly having bike(s) in their game! But keyword I see mentioned is "funding", this has always been an issue for everyone. Bike games are completely niche so it is lucky for me that I've always wanted to make a bike game since last millennium. But I then go off scope and turn it in to an Alaska survival thing, or whatever. Well I have the intent to do this throughout 2019 so there will something new to ride sometime down the road!

[Mirabilis]

Cooperating with modders works so well though for many games, and its a win-win for developers, too. Look at Euro Truck Simulator 2 - you can download entirely new AI for traffic, for example. New trucks, graphics, sounds - all of them freely developed by enthusiasts. And if people get enthusiastic about trucks, I'm pretty sure they'd get enthusiastic about bikes, too.

As for competition, I actually think that a good bike simulation would not be completely niche. Racing games are good sellers, and simulations seem to get a very active community who are willing to pay top money. Look at the amount of money Dovetail makes from their train simulations - its staggering. Even something that appears to be a niche can still make good money for anyone willing to enter the market.

If someone were to develop a bike sim actively with the modding community it would be sure to get healthy sales.

[Jez Hammond]

It does work brilliantly when a game is designed to be modded from the ground up. Id showed this right at the start, as did the other mentions in this thread and many more.

We don't see a face though with publishers like Milestone. If you compare them with say the Dakar 18 team, then over there you will see actual developers joining in on the forum and the advertised Discus website (whatever it is).

Now that mostrly works, but if you're a minority voice then don't bother voicing it is what I've learned the hard way. Even on this forum my spider senses tingle (outside of this thread!). And there it is, the other hand; I don't blame Milestone for not speaking. I don't even want a forum for my game if toxic people insist on biting. Might have to though, unless a demo I guess.

[AntDX316]

I run AI at 120%. Only issue I have is getting run down from braking a bit too early but after getting better it's great.

[Mirabilis]

The problem is I've played a lot of car racing games so I have a feel for what the current state of the industry AI is at the moment, and I feel that Ride 3 doesn't really measure up.

I feel the problem with the AI is in how it races. It consistently performs quickly. But its the easiest thing in the world to have AI that performs perfectly. The hard part of AI is making it behave like a human being. It should make mistakes, and give the player 'room' on the track in the way a real human player would.

For example, in real racing each rider/driver tends to have personality traits. Some are aggressive and overtake hard, some have a tendancy to push too hard and spin out, some are laid back and look after their tyres. The drivers around them are aware of their traits and behave accordingly. If you know someone has a tendency to overcook it on the corners you give them room as you approach a tight turn.

Good AI not only represents the traits of the drivers, but it represents the reaction of other drivers to these traits. It doesn't just make one driver aggressive, it makes other drivers more cautious when around an aggressive driver.

I was running a game of rFactor2 the other day and the car in front spun out in front of me a few turns from first leaving the pits. It was brilliant. It was the kind of mistake that human beings make on cold tyres. It was only one driver that did this, but it showed how the AI was behaving like a human, not like a machine.

So when you say the AI tends to run you down when you brake to early, that's a sign of bad AI. The AI should learn that you tend to brake too early and give you room on the corners. A real human does this - there is no reason an AI opponent cannot. In fact, RaceRoom has a type of AI called Adaptive AI that is supposed to alter its driving style as it learns the style of the player, matching its speed and awareness accordingly. I don't like the RaceRoom AI at all, but it shows it is possible to add learning to AI.

AI is fascinating. If you look at other genres (especially those tied to the military such as flight sims) the AI development has improved enormously. These days getting AI to behave like a human opponent is where the cutting edge is. The bots in first-person shooters have also been a good proving ground for developers to show off their AI chops. Making an opponent appear like a convincing human is hard, and a team mate is even harder. The Holy Grail is to make one that behaves as flustered and irrational as a human, not as perfect as a robot.

If you enjoy racing in Ride 3 this is all irrelevant. I'm glad you like it AQ-VIP. I'm just saying that for me personally (and perhaps for others), the AI is its weakest point and puts me off racing in single player. I love the Time Trials, I can't stand the racing. But its personal, and we're all different, so people looking to buy the game shouldn't be put off too much by what I say.