trees

[SheoGorath]

i notice there are some trees in the game that don't produce fruit. spruce and oxygen tree for example. what is the purpose of them? in areal life colony i would expect you plant them in a dome and leave them there permanently to produce oxygen. i'm not sure if you can do that here.

[SheoGorath]

Originally posted by woenk:

Originally posted by g7wap:

not really weird. we used to do crop rotation. after a while we had to start afresh

Because adding the specific nutrients for the same crop would have been too expensive ?

not so much certain plants require certain types of soil, clay, acidic and also specific nutrients, such as nitrogen and over time they kind of got cross. it was easiest just to resupply soil. a long time ago but it was a major thing.

[xtra9962]

If the trees are not going to produce anything more than Air and then they produce so little that it's not effective. It would be one thing if we could plant enough to replace scrubbers, but is that really a possibility? And then let's talk even further and say that they could - Well all trees provide Oxygen so then why wouldn't Mars colonists just bring Fruit bearing trees so that it would serve a dual purpose (air and food). Lastly - I'm not a fan of the grow an Apple tree and cut it down to harvest it's fruit. The other plants okay... but the trees should be harvested and then you have to wait for another crop to grow from the same tree. You would still harvest Seeds and try to improve the strain... Plus you'd want seeds in case of natural disaster (Tornado's or Meteors) destroy one of your domes and your plants/trees die. So the whole seed process is good... just not the harvesting and types of trees. So unless the Oxygen tree will produce more air then an Apple tree there is no point in growing them and taking up resources that you would need to survive.

[SheoGorath]

Originally posted by xtra9962:

If the trees are not going to produce anything more than Air and then they produce so little that it's not effective. It would be one thing if we could plant enough to replace scrubbers, but is that really a possibility? And then let's talk even further and say that they could - Well all trees provide Oxygen so then why wouldn't Mars colonists just bring Fruit bearing trees so that it would serve a dual purpose (air and food). Lastly - I'm not a fan of the grow an Apple tree and cut it down to harvest it's fruit. The other plants okay... but the trees should be harvested and then you have to wait for another crop to grow from the same tree. You would still harvest Seeds and try to improve the strain... Plus you'd want seeds in case of natural disaster (Tornado's or Meteors) destroy one of your domes and your plants/trees die. So the whole seed process is good... just not the harvesting and types of trees. So unless the Oxygen tree will produce more air then an Apple tree there is no point in growing them and taking up resources that you would need to survive.

personally i'd on mars, producing air is a pretty big thing. :)
but they should considered a permanent fixture and not so easy to pull from the ground
you certainly do not need to uproot a tree to harvest its fruit
if trees behaved more like real trees in this game i would build multiple domes and fill them with them even if ut for a natural oxygen source,

[longword]

Originally posted by xtra9962:

If the trees are not going to produce anything more than Air and then they produce so little that it's not effective. It would be one thing if we could plant enough to replace scrubbers, but is that really a possibility?

A Small Dome full of trees should output as much Oxygen as a CO2 Scrubber and use less power directly - though it will consume a moderate amount of water and that has to be taken into account.

Originally posted by xtra9962:

Well all trees provide Oxygen so then why wouldn't Mars colonists just bring Fruit bearing trees so that it would serve a dual purpose (air and food).

Is it not enough that you can go for a peaceful stroll in your lush and diverse Martian forest?

[SheoGorath]

Originally posted by longword:

Originally posted by xtra9962:

If the trees are not going to produce anything more than Air and then they produce so little that it's not effective. It would be one thing if we could plant enough to replace scrubbers, but is that really a possibility?

A Small Dome full of trees should output as much Oxygen as a CO2 Scrubber and use less power directly - though it will consume a moderate amount of water and that has to be taken into account.

Originally posted by xtra9962:

Well all trees provide Oxygen so then why wouldn't Mars colonists just bring Fruit bearing trees so that it would serve a dual purpose (air and food).

Is it not enough that you can go for a peaceful stroll in your lush and diverse Martian forest?

until yo accidentally click on one which you cannot replant. trees should be made permanent so that the only way you can uproot one is to cut it down with a chainsaw then dig out the roots.

[longword]

If you accidentally pick one up, that's an opportunity to engineer a better tree seed and grow a fresh one to replace it.

[Grollwerk]

So when I have trees in the dome they produce air. I got this.

But when the trees are 100% grown, do they not die then when I not pick them up?

[SheoGorath]

Originally posted by longword:

If you accidentally pick one up, that's an opportunity to engineer a better tree seed and grow a fresh one to replace it.

i am not superman. i cannot accidentally rip trees oout of the ground in real life and i doubt i'd ab;e to on the lower gravity of mars. it's not something i want to do especially when i cannot replant it and that tree was providing oxygen

[wyrdplace]

I just wish we could put different trees (or plants) in the same plot. Being forced to have all apple trees or all spruce trees is kind of annoying. I wish I could have an arboretum with different trees in it.

I know the medium dome I'm using has two plots, so I can have one side of the dome apple and the other side spruce or poplar (I haven't found any other types yet), and I assume the large dome has maybe four plots? But I only have one poplar seed. I'd love to have a poplar tree surrounded by spruce or apple (the game doesn't seem to worry about them crowding one another).

Also, I'm told trees will eventually be semi-permanent, so picking apples won't get rid of the entire tree. I can't wait for that!

[wyrdplace]

Originally posted by SheoGorath:

Originally posted by longword:

If you accidentally pick one up, that's an opportunity to engineer a better tree seed and grow a fresh one to replace it.

i am not superman. i cannot accidentally rip trees oout of the ground in real life and i doubt i'd ab;e to on the lower gravity of mars. it's not something i want to do especially when i cannot replant it and that tree was providing oxygen

I agree. When I complained about this, one of the devs replied that they will be fixing that in an upcoming patch.

[wyrdplace]

Originally posted by Grollwerk:

So when I have trees in the dome they produce air. I got this.

But when the trees are 100% grown, do they not die then when I not pick them up?

If you're asking if the trees will die if we LEAVE THEM THERE, without picking them, then I think the answer is "No." At least, my apple orchard is still going fine. I've never noticed my corn or tomatoes dying if I don't pick them, either.

[Grollwerk]

Originally posted by wyrdplace:

Originally posted by Grollwerk:

So when I have trees in the dome they produce air. I got this.

But when the trees are 100% grown, do they not die then when I not pick them up?

If you're asking if the trees will die if we LEAVE THEM THERE, without picking them, then I think the answer is "No." At least, my apple orchard is still going fine. I've never noticed my corn or tomatoes dying if I don't pick them, either.

Thanks alot. I will try how it goes then

[xtra9962]

Originally posted by longword:

Originally posted by xtra9962:

If the trees are not going to produce anything more than Air and then they produce so little that it's not effective. It would be one thing if we could plant enough to replace scrubbers, but is that really a possibility?

A Small Dome full of trees should output as much Oxygen as a CO2 Scrubber and use less power directly - though it will consume a moderate amount of water and that has to be taken into account.

Originally posted by xtra9962:

Well all trees provide Oxygen so then why wouldn't Mars colonists just bring Fruit bearing trees so that it would serve a dual purpose (air and food).

Is it not enough that you can go for a peaceful stroll in your lush and diverse Martian forest?

I like how you said... "Should" but okay without a way to really measure this (meaning seeing percentage or oxygen numbers) it would be hard to tell. Of course, we could try using the radar map and setup a test to see, but since you can't put a scrubber in the small dome, it would be hard to get an accurate read.

As for the Martian Forest... Um yeah... like one of the other posters put - unless we can inner mix the various plants and trees, walking through a Oxygen or Popular Forest really isn't that much to see. Now the Spruces... At least you get that beautiful fullness that it produces, but just the same - If I were going to Mars to Live and Grow a civilization - Pretty/Peaceful is not what I have time or Room for in my list of supplies to survive. Either it is going to aid in sustaining the colony or it's not going. So, Apple, Pear, Orange, Cherry, Peach, Plum, Lemon, etc. type trees would be in my kit. Don't get me wrong, I applauded the DEV's for the work they've done and are doing. I'm looking forward to where they take us going forward.

[longword]

Originally posted by xtra9962:

Originally posted by longword:

A Small Dome full of trees should output as much Oxygen as a CO2 Scrubber and use less power directly

I like how you said... "Should" but okay without a way to really measure this (meaning seeing percentage or oxygen numbers) it would be hard to tell. Of course, we could try using the radar map and setup a test to see, but since you can't put a scrubber in the small dome, it would be hard to get an accurate read.

You want receipts? I got receipts!

I built a small base with two Airlocks, a Workshop, a Greenhouse and a Small Dome. Total volume 9,600 litres, plenty of space to be filled with O2, and starting at zero. For this test I went Full Mandalorian. My helmet was never removed. I should also point out I have a maxed out tech tree, and overabundance of electricity, water, and fertilizer was on hand.

First, I ran the CO2 Scrubber on default settings for 12 hours. I got a good roll of the dice and mine was producing 7.21l/hr while consuming 3.46kW plus 10kW for the Workshop itself. When I shut it down at the end of 12 hours it had filled the space with 86.49 litres of O2 - exactly in line with the maths.

Then I grew 24 Apple trees to 50% in the fields (couldn't remember how many trees fit in a dome). That took about 4 or 5 sols, I wasn't accurately recording time, and that process generated over 4,500 litres of O2 - roughly 560l per 12 hours. I replanted 12 of those trees in the Small Dome and pulped the rest, making sure nothing else was growing anywhere in the base.

Over the next 12 hours the Small Dome full of Apple trees generated 366.97l of O2 while consuming on average 15.5kW (17kW at night, 14kW during the day). The trees also consumed 3.6l/hr of Water so to be fair I'm assigning another 1.5kW to account for the Well's power consumption too. So the results are:

0.54 litres O2 per kWh for the CO2 Scrubber (86.49l total over 12 hours)
1.80 liters O2 per kWh for the Small Dome (366.97l total over 12 hours)

I think we have a winner. Mind you I'm surprised it's by such a high margin. My awesome Botany skills probably have something to do with that.

Mars will come to fear my botany powers!

Originally posted by xtra9962:

As for the Martian Forest... Um yeah... like one of the other posters put - unless we can inner mix the various plants and trees, walking through a Oxygen or Popular Forest really isn't that much to see.

Now that's an idea I can get behind. Since all of the different varieties of tree consume light/water/soil/fertilizer resources at the same rate, there shouldn't be any technical or gameplay reason to prohibit mixing different trees in the one plot of a Dome.

[longword]

Slight tweak to the experiment: I scrapped the Small Dome's Composter, bringing down the consumption by 4kW, and also set the Fertilizer on the plot to zero. That gave me 336.97 litres of O2 in 12 hours, or 2.16l per kWh. Production continued at the same rate after the trees were fully grown.