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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1307809345
Damage Types: There are 3 distinct types of damage, the first is direct damage.
Note: AS = Ancient Star
1. Direct Damage - This is most commonly damage caused by a character or monster as it’s main attack as their turn progresses. Direct damage triggers skills, enchantments, gem effects, devices, necklace set bonuses - etc. Most of your early combat strategy should be built around the functions of the team you are taking into battle and how they work together. A good example is how the AS Missionary's heal to Tank types reflects damage between 1500-5000% to a random enemy as real damage.
Suggestions for a DPS based team:
Warrior - Sunder is the best skill for DPS team type, given how much it takes away enemy resists, if you can supplement this ability with a steal resists of the 3 main types you output it becomes very effective. In this role he is the party tank and support role by debuffing the enemy. If you couple this tactic with a weapon enchantment that steals resistances that correspond to the damage you are doing he excels at his job.
Street Man - When in prime AS form, he will naturally have 5 extra hits, plus the scroll giving him 3 more hits on crash, making it hit 11 times on first use, going up by 3 every time it is used further. The Street Man by himself can walk out long after everyone else is dead, when built right he is able to dispel all positive effects from the enemy while doing substantial output to the enemy.
Tough Woman - She is a fantastic addition if you do not select her final skill point, taking away one of her effects is not compensated enough by the 3 final point options. Supplement this with a Missionary and Golden Shaman's ability to give free casts for abilities and the Tough Woman will make your team lap the enemy with their attacks several times over per chance they get to attack.
Fashion Boy - #5 rated DPS. With a high crit hit and crit damage build the Fashion Boy can hit an enemy on average 7 times per regular attack, each successive hit has a chance to do higher damage. His scaling is very powerful when built correctly and in the late game.
Young Warlock - The #1 DPS output AS adventurer BAR NONE. When in the AS form this adventurer is something scary on the battlefield, I have one with a 99.9% chance to steal int as his AS ability, to bolster this I also put a steal int enchantment on his weapon too which makes it stack even farther.
Bun Sister - I used two of these to beat normal mode and pushed into the MD with just two Legendary versions. With a beefy vitality they are more tank type than most paladin builds can ever be and their tactic output can do incredible amounts of damage.
Fire Charger - Very capable DPS when in AS form, non AS form is not very useful. See further below.
Red Horn - #2 rated DPS, highlighted by his AS form. The scroll ability to steal STR on kills when supplemented with the Poisonous Needle device gives him the ability to kill whatever happens to be in front of him.
1) You mention it's better to have self heal through damage instead of healer and I was wondering where you get that? As I've seen a bit of items turn recovery but not a leech ability, unless it's called something else. Also does it work with DoT like Fire Seed?
2) You mention you used the fiery gem to give your heroes chance to attack on defense. Looking at it I was wondering does it make it so the Hero just uses their base ability? For example the Missionary has Pray which I currently use his AS ability to do lots of Real Damage and triggering that more often would be great.
3) Is there a good place to farm necklaces? I have found only like 8 so far and not a full set.
4) On harvesting you mention having a team full of harvest boosting gear. What kind of gear boost harvesting? I've mainly relied on just leaving game running while away to farm a lot of materials. Though I don't know if these are "hard" materials you are referring to but is there a good way to farm the resource you get from quest that you need to make scrolls?
5) You mention buying boxes with AoH, but I don't see any boxes for sale. I have recently discovered that you can buy 1M PP packs in store which are great as farming PP takes forever if I wanna try leveling up a secondary group of heroes to test things with. Which was one of my major problems until I found this. The only other Packs which I think are boxes you refer to are the Gems. I was wondering if those packs were worth it as 1 gem for 25 AoH seems like a lot.
6) Also on AoH is the Adventure Card worth it? Seems like spending the PP in Inn would be of more use as you can get 1M PP for 25 AoH and it cost 50K PP to summon hero which increases slowly, also the hero that is summoned seems to be junk and not worth it. While the Adventure card is 120 AoH for a hero. At this point I only want AS Heroes but they are SO RARE and event don't seem to help much.
Overall it was a nice broad view guide with heavy detail on the math of damage calculations. I was look for a bit more detail in others areas as well though. Like you mention Tough Woman in DPS team suggestions and that Missionary and Golden Shaman ability give her free cast. I don't see the synergy of those 3 as they just seems like 2 healers and a DPS. Where is the faster attack rate coming from?
Another example is I recall reading somewhere mention of dunkard and his ability to increase the number of targets. I looked at his Tactic increase the number of targets characters can have by 3. What abilities does this effect? It seems like more single target abilities still only target one, and target all enemies doesn't benefit either. I imagine the Crush ability might but not sure as it happens so fast can't tell if it went up since tool tips on combat doesn't seem to mention it.
When it comes to mechanics I recall mention in other forums of focusing on hit rate for better chance to hit. However currently I tend to focus on Crit Damage for my DPS characters and was wondering if I need anything higher than 100% on Crit Chance. Plus if I'm always Criting do I need to bother with Hit Rate Adj?
It's these sorts of things that I'm looking for. As I have questions on which talents to focus on. Which AS abilities should I be looking for on items. As there seems to be so many and not 100% sure on how they'll interact at times. Having a list of them all would be nice as I don't know what exist and mostly just scroll though my items hoping to stumble across one that sounds good.
As for right now I got a new AS Missionary which has 4746% Real Damage reflected when healing tank with Pray. I swapped out my non-AS Missionary and now he has become my highest damaging character on the team. Currently pushing to MD 100 with the team so making some progress.
Is it worth going to level 90? It seems last talent is at 85 and the stat increases per level seem marginal compared to the PP cost for those last 5 levels.
Oh and like which passives are good and in what build setups. Like the wave that heals 31% each turn seems pretty worthless. In my experience it was better to just go with Stamina and reduce the damage since you can't heal if your dead from the hit. Flesh to Stone also seems equally bad as you have to survive the incoming hits first and even then it's only a chance of going up vs a guarantee of stamina.
Or things like fire seed which goes doesn't really explain. But it seems they are suppose to be stack able yet when I use Heartless Flame multiple times the Fire Seed count doesn't seem to go up. It seems there are some cares where it stacks to higher levels then goes back down to baseline again. Since Fire Player is still my main AOE DPS I'm looking for ways to increase the DPS more.
1. Heal on damage: The Cube’s tactic of God Seeds allows you to heal yourself when you hit an enemy. The other reason I say heal on hit vs healer type is you have 5 adventurers and maybe 1 healer, which is a bit much later on for them to handle. It spreads the workload out and when you use the Missionary’s tactic with the Flying Feather gem set you get the 60% DRD bonus too, so that couples very well in the network of skills and tactics.
2. Fairy Gem set causes the user to attack with their basic attack not their tactic. I look at this gem set as a sometimes firing counter punch ability, it can be really good when you don’t need the gem bonuses to mitigate damage / healing / specific stat sets.
3. Necklaces are the hardest item in the game to get. They only drop in the Mystic Dimension and it follows the rest of the game in that the deeper you go the better. I find a nice medium level that I can complete in a minute or two, and let that run for hours. I usually come back to a bunch of AS adventurers and gear.
4. There’s two things here, the first part for is regular crafting materials for forging and turning the bad items into gold. Once you have a couple hundred million of the crafting materials you don’t need to worry about it, but to get there in a short amount of time, I made a team that all wore bonus harvesting gear and let it run on a normal level that had good rewards.
The second part about the scroll materials - that is another tough one until the late game. The fastest advice I have for scrolls is to run the Ash from MD and use that to buy materials, which doesn’t work since you’re not there yet. Another fast way is to follow the heretic quests and complete each one as they will give a decent chunk reward at the end. I used to let it idle run on the levels for hours to gather them overnight before I could afford to buy them en masse.
5. Buying practice points is the fastest way to acquire them once you need to get above level 85, the residency bonus at the Inn worked just fine for a long time. The Ash cost for items from the shop will get much more affordable as you progress down into the MD. I get several hundred Ash for each level cleared. The gems acquired this way will also be in the interests of expediency, on one save I have about 250k Ash, so on that one I buy the Gems in sets of 50-100. To me yes gems are very much worth it in the shop once you get down far enough in the MD.
6. Hero packs and the residents for the Inn are a total waste. A long time ago I did the math using level 1000 in MD and the apply rate etc. It is not worth it at all. It’s actually much cheaper to summon using PP’s and use the Ash to buy the PP’s by a very considerable margin.
7. With the Tough Woman and using her skill without selecting the final level up ability point, her tactic gives the team +20% (ish) turn progress and agility at the same time. Couple this with a free cast ability and you can literally run circles around the enemy if you build it right. The turn progress causes your team to use their basic attack faster and when in the standard DPS situation.
8. The “free cast” for tactic comes from a bonus on the healer (Missionary or Golden Shaman) It gives them a % chance to give a team member a free cast. Up to 30% or so.
9. Ah the Drunk Reader, one of the most under-rated adventurers. In short, his ability: Increases the number of targets for basic attacks and tactics by x (1-3) for all adventurers (and pets / summons) in the party. This is nice but rather niche if you ask me, because building a team of single target attackers and then also using the single target necklace set is kinda strong, but not really in true comparison to other types and sets. It is useful as needed, but most skills that should target groups already do so. Plus, the bonus on the Insolence Ancient Star targeting ring has the ability to carry over all damage beyond fatal to a random enemy as real damage. This item makes him less useful.
10. Hit rate and crit rate are two totally different topics, so here goes. In the Mystic Dimension enemies will be tougher than you’ve ever encountered, each level increases their base stats which means their dodge rate is dramatically higher the deeper you go. In order to counter this, the necklace Prince set removes missing any attacks / tactics. Without that necklace set you will have to bolster the Hit Rate stat in order to reliably hit the enemies deeper within the MD. If you don’t hit, your crit hit / dmg rate doesn’t matter.
Crit hit rate is important for characters that hit with anything other than real damage such as the Fashion Boy gets much stronger if he crits. Going above 100% isn’t really needed but some debuffs will lower your rate so it can help insulate against that effect.
11. I can’t really provide a lot of guidance on talents as they’ve changed and I often re-roll them as needed, I would suggest you play with it, log your results for the changes and see which way you are more comfortable with. I tend to value VIT, and usually each character has a specific bonus on that tier that relates to how you’re going to build them.
2nd post, top question. 12. Is it worth going to 90, eventually yes it is now that you are in the MD. This helps level the playing field at first as you go into the MD as level disparities make fights much harder.
13. Passives. So before the MD you can use whatever, it really doesn’t matter that much. Inside you will have 2 choices, Harmony for the DPS team and healing output boost, or the Stamina skill for the innate damage reduction. 99% of the time I go with Stamina because of exactly what you thought about above - you have to survive the hit in order to keep going. This skill is the highest rating for DRD (Damage ReDution) and it stacks well with gem and skill bonuses. (Side note; I once tested a method to reach 146% damage reduction and I was not damage immune but virtually unkillable with the team. The problem was I did not output enough damage to kill the enemy either so we just sat there staring at each other till the adventure points ran out.)
If I am using a DPS team, I will have either Stray on the hitter because of how much it outputs near constantly or harmony due to the 110% output boost. In regards to the healing passive it is a life saver when placed on a stacked Bun Sister, I’ve had many fights where she, and she alone made it home. The AS form of the Street man also fits this archetype that no matter what hell is infront of him, he will survive if he has heal on hit or the Flying Feather bonus that makes the Missionary / Golden shaman’s healing into a Heal over Time effect (HoT.)
14. Fire Seeds - actually this is explained with the damage over time section but I do understand that it is BURIED within the math formula and rambling nature of my words. In short DoT’s in this game do not stack in layers rather they stack in damage values. To this end you will use 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x fire seed on the enemy but it will increase the damage value indicated by the fire seed change as it is applied each time during battle. Pause battle and hover over the fire seed before and after cast to see any changes.
Subnote 1 about Fire Seeds and Fire Damage in general. Way way back a long time ago Fire was THE damage type, between the Fire Assassin and the Fire Player, users built an exponentially growing DPS with the Assassin consuming the Fire Seeds. This was nerfed considerably (but still works very well) and fire damage in general was nerfed and leveled out against the other common damage types. Fire Seeds and bonuses in general while inside the MD will be removed as battle goes on unlike almost any other level you’ve played so far. The dungeon mechanics of the MD are wide, varied and often very unfair. There will be levels that you can not beat and must restart because of the way the dungeon blessings apply and the boss conditions, it happens. Where I’m at in the levels (MD 3k+) the mobs have over a billion hps and can often regenerate their entire bar in one go if not mitigated properly.
Do you have a good Bun Sister yet? If not try stacking her VIT and give her a go, her tactic can be very powerful in that it hits all targets and for real damage. If you want to use a DPS team, you need to focus on using either the AS form of Young Warlock or Red Horn, both work but require different builds due to elemental differences and such.
DPS teams:
Red Horn team: RH, Warrior, Missionary, NightBlade, (open). For this team I’d use the Poisonous Needle on the Red Horn, with ghost collectors (that collect on being hit) on everyone. This can make fights so when the enemy hits you the first time and the needle fires immediately at the end of the stack and that’s it. Round Over. To amplify this effect I give the RH a steal STR on hit ability and am sure to soften their defenses up with the Warrior’s Sunder and Roar while the warrior uses a Steal Resists enchant on his weapon that steals Phys, and Poison from the enemy.
For the final slot you can use Bun Sister, Street Man, Fashion Boy, Cube, Tactician, Iron Soldier, Conjurer - this one is open to whatever skill you like / need the most. Best team would probably include the Cube though as he gives you the Heal on Damage ability while using a DPS team.
For Young Warlock: YW, Fashion Boy, Missionary, Nightblade, and same as above to include a Warrior. Same style, YW steals INT, support ruins their defenses and the needle device makes the enemy suffer for attacking you. I love it, very similar to the thought process of a DMR setup.
When you unlock level 8 gear you will unlock class specific enchantments too, but not all of them. The last new enchantment unlocks come from Mystic Dimension 1051 which is level 18 gear, but the final loot and gem level increase is level 6501.
AoH is flowing nicely so I got plenty to spend on PP Packs which makes me feel more at ease with swapping out heroes to try. I do have more questions/responds to your post. I'll number them based on yours above.
3) Yeah I still have yet to get a full set of any necklace type. Running MD in under a minute seems nice and fast. I have increased my gear and heroes slightly so maybe one of the lower stages I could run faster. But right now it seems to take quite a while to complete a level.
4) I got like 10M of the regular crafting materials so they aren't an issue. I didn't realize you got those scroll crafting materials from running the regions on their own. I wasn't really paying close attention to the loot as most of the time unless I'm watching how a new setup preforms I just have it set to auto and figure I'll sort the loot later. It's good to know I'll have to run the regions more to get better scrolls.
5) Yeah this was one of my biggest hurdles that was killing the enjoyment of the game. Without PP I can't level new heroes to try out new team combos. I get enough AoH per run to get 2-3 PP Packs now which is real nice.
10) Ok. I wonder if it's Hit Rate or Enemy resistances that has killed my DPS. It seems like my fire player is doing less and less. The one really carrying my group is the Missionary. The Paladin can tank most things and with the AS Missionary doing a crit heal on Paladin it triggers a few Million Real Damage hit on the enemy which tends to instantly kill them unless they have some shield or such.
12) I was looking at resistances on my character and saw it was based off fighting equal level creatures. I got to a point where my Heroes started dying more but the P&M kept dragging the team past the finish line. Since I had a bunch of AoH I bought lots of PP and increased their levels and it helped a lot as it's not the tiny stat increase that matters it's the penalty for fighting monsters of higher level. Still don't have enough PP to get them all to 90 yet though.
13) I don't understand how Flying Feather makes it a HoT. It says when someone has a HoT on them they get Damage Reduction but Missionary and Shaman don't have Heal over Time abilities.
14) Yeah I do mouse over and I was talking about damage values stacking. The increase I said wasn't showing up wasn't be referring to the little 1,2,3 counter over stacked abilities. I was referred to I mouse over fire seed and see it's at 100K and then I use the Fire Player's tactic of add seed for 600% output. Yet the seed on the Target remains at 100K even if I cast it multiple times.
I also use the use Demonic Fire so that seeds are not consumed as I figured I could keep stacking them higher because I recall that being part of the trick with the fire seed damage back when I first played.
That covers the Numbered Section. As for reply to the rest as follows.
It seems I did pickup a good AS Bun Sister. She is 343 Growth with 20% chance of doing two hits. I swapped out the Flame Player in the group as her DPS seem to be declining and I'm not sure if it's because of higher misses or higher enemy resistance.
Either way the Bun Sister seems to be out preforming the Flame Player in MD right now. However when I went back to farm some of the normal maps I remembered why I original passed on Bun Sister. It was so easy to stack damage output on others like Flame Player that I swapped her back in because she did so much better. Which makes me think it is the resistances impacting the team at these deeper MD levels.
I'll have to look into those other DPS groups. Not sure how good my current spares are of those heroes though as I mainly have auto recruit on and drop the lowest growths from time to time.
What do you mean by class specific enchantments? Do you mean the extra abilities that seem to come on AS Gear? I can make level 12 items now but don't see anything that's class specific. I mostly craft lvl 8 gear as scrap for fragments like you mentioned you do in a previous post.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2272940432
14. That could be an integration bug that was never caught, in that it isn't applying the correct value or it could be something deeper in the mechanics that I haven't encountered yet. If you'd like to you can email your question and gamefiles to the devs at Metainteraction@gmail.com and there they can use their tools to see if the values are moving correctly. Good catch either way.
Class specific enchantments only roll on level 8 gear and above, they will say in the enchantment description Nightblade / Warrior / Missionary exclusive. This is on forged weapons and armor, I don't think I've ever seen it on mob dropped loot. Most enchantments open up at 8, some more at 12 and the last enchantments open on gear level 18 I believe.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2272952462
These enchantments are very powerful just like the scrolls can be, once you get the Ancient Star type for your team they get really good. One of my favorite's is the Street Mans as it just grows in the number of hits it applies each time it is used.
It sounds to me like you're well on your way to clearing floor 1k in the MD.
Edit: I've been thinking about the fire seed problem, my first bet is because the gem set you are using have a set value and that value is resetting to base where it is supposed to be increasing. It may also be a MD enemy blessing that is removing it, but if it is still happening outside the MD, it points to the values aren't interacting correctly.
Like I new class specific were on scrolls because that's the only thing they have. But didn't know it was on weapons and armor as well. I got 3 pages of AS weapons and just a few have class exclusive. This goes back to the it would be nice to have a list of all enchantments so I know what exist.
Devices are a good example of this as I only recently sat down and skimmed through the pages of them to see which ones I would like to try. Since it seems DMR is king at end game I figured I'd start heading that route early and found Chaotic generates trigger off DMR and the device boost the DMR of a character. So 4 generators and 1 Release devices swapped out on the party.
14) That's ok, I kinda suspect it's working as intended so that seeds from different sources stack but seeds from the same source don't. Otherwise I could probably easily get like 500K+ seeds since it's an 18 Rage ability with 0 cooldown that adds the 600% seed.
I think 1K is a long ways off. I hit a road block at 285, just a few floors after making that post about making good progress. I think I jinxed myself. I've settled into some farming for gear to better equip my characters as they seem a bit too sqwishy.
Also when it comes to some abilities I'm not sure what can crit and what can't. Like the flame seed and then ignite combo of Fire Player is set heavy into crit damage because she can crit for some large damage numbers. But when I figured I'd do something like that with Bun Sister it seems like there is never a crit off here real damage tactic.