My Killer build

[xanthalus]

I’ll answer why I use him in two forms, short and long.

In short, everything that is his ancient star ability.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1985024731


Ok now for the long form. First thing is the dodge ability, most players over look it. Dodge isn’t broadcast when it is successful and thereby the normal player isn’t aware of how often it works or not. And from what I’ve seen it puts in a lot of unpaid overtime.

All of that matters because the Killer gains a damage output layer on any other team member dodging damage, and mine has a 75% chance to apply. See attached image. When I utilize his innate ability it deals real damage in a form that counts as DMR damage. This also means this attack is from the star ability are not reduced by the 90% Thorns Set penalty.

To add to it all the Killer’s scroll boosts his own dodge rate making him very hard for the enemy to hit. I do not use class specific enchantments for him on his gear since the damage from his tactic is not important and there are better options.

Another is that his effect deals Real damage, and real damage is not affected by any resistances, or damage reductions unlike how elemental damage is processed. This is such a significant bonus I feel it outweighs how real damage can not utilize bonus critical damage.

EQ- The Insolence Ancient Star ring is also a MUST. Why is because when the Killer’s AS effect ability fires and kills an enemy, the spill over damage is applied to another enemy and since it’s all real damage it deals a ton of damage.

And time really, it takes this team about 3 minutes or so to run a dungeon and before the upgrades and tuning it was taking over double that. I no longer need to worry about running out of action points.

That’s about all I can think of right now there might be more but it’s late here. I just like how it makes dodging such a major battle function. They can’t hurt what they didn’t hit.

[Tenzek]

Interesting synergies. I just got my first AS Killer today just before reading this. He is a bit too low in level, only having about a 35% chance where yours is 75%. I think I'll wait to give that a try until I have a higher one.

[NOIRE-]

Thanks a lot, this does clear things up. I do have some problems with dodge in thorn builds because some of my high lv gems has both DMR and DRA att.
Btw, compare to using drunk reader, which one do u think is faster to clear a level. DR tactic + insolence can hit 6 target at once.

[xanthalus]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Interesting synergies. I just got my first AS Killer today just before reading this. He is a bit too low in level, only having about a 35% chance where yours is 75%. I think I'll wait to give that a try until I have a higher one.

My original Killer worked with a 25% chance but not as fast as my current one. It's worth using while waiting for a higher roll.

Originally posted by Woojin:

Thanks a lot, this does clear things up. I do have some problems with dodge in thorn builds because some of my high lv gems has both DMR and DRA att.
Btw, compare to using drunk reader, which one do u think is faster to clear a level. DR tactic + insolence can hit 6 target at once.

At first glance the Drunk Reader isn't viable since I need everyone who is on the team to do their assigned jobs.

Killer - main focus.
Warrior - Status effect management/reflect damage from Missionary
Bun Sister - her scroll adds DMR to each party member and stacks up to 15 times. Also buffs the team's hps and raises all resistances. Too valuable to move.
Night Blade - Must have since controlling healing is a required, also can dispel positive layers from the enemy.
Missionary - status effect removal and DRD due to creating a heal over time.

The problem with the drunk reader is I do not believe his skill will affect the damage done by his AS ability. As I look at how it is worded, and since the Killer's ability is a soft damage type (which means it will not trigger armor enchantments etc) I suspect that the Drunk Reader will not add hits to it. Plus the Insolence Ring itself already pushes the damage as real damage all the way until it reaches 0, so I'm not sure how else the extra hits would be beneficial.

In theory I can see what you mean by buffing out the number of hits his ability though. I've been watching the damage play out slowly and I think i see insolence causing extra hits but I can't be 100% sure without tools I don't have. I suppose I'll have to find a way to sub in the Drunk Reader now and test the results.

[NOIRE-]

The mechanics of this game sure are weird, MD 2000ish i think every com can work fine with thorn build, this signify just how broken this build is.

Thus, the more important matter is to find a com that can accomplish it the fastest. It spent almost my entire saturday to do it xD. So there're duelist, warrior, killer, golden shaman, missionary, ele wiz, tactian, bun sis, conjurer & drunk reader. I tried every logical combination, and believe me Killer is the first one that got out.
My earlier com is DR, NB, GS, 2 Tactician, then I use it to compare to other
Warrior isnt needed, you only want to dispel their shield, and nightblade is enough
Duelist, tempting but is not as practical as using 2 tactician.
Bun sis, same as above, and tactician can boost more than twice DMR to team.
Conjurer, also the same as above, and its the worst one
Ele wiz, can also shield like tactician, but cant provide bonus DMR to team, and the extra heal also isnt needed.
Missionary, luckily theres no debuff that can chip away the shield really fast, any seed debuff from enemies does worry me, but as long as u can stack more shield its totally fine.
Golden shaman,, yeaah, i realized it very late. My com was so solid that i dont see it need any sort of healing, just stacking shield all the waaay. And the bonus DMR from GS scroll isnt that practical. In theory, it can add a whooping 7000% DMR if you can find the perfect highest scroll chance (200%). BUT it only last 2 turns and you need GS to take turns very often, which is very unlikely in thorn build.

I might switch to GS again if stacking shields eont be enough.
But right now, my current com is 3 Tact, DR, NS. Its the fastest com to clear a level for me rn. About 100sec irl time. Im in MD 1700+ rn.

*about Killer, i tried testing him alone in lower level MD, equipped w/ mindless scroll, shields from yellow effect gears, high DRA high DMR gems and grand heal potion that give extra absorb dmg shield. His star effect wasnt triggering at all, atleast not with all the shield and dmg absorption. You need to take all of those to make it start dealing dmg. Thats why killer is opted out.

[xanthalus]

Originally posted by Woojin:

The mechanics of this game sure are weird, MD 2000ish i think every com can work fine with thorn build, this signify just how broken this build is.

Thus, the more important matter is to find a com that can accomplish it the fastest. It spent almost my entire saturday to do it xD. So there're duelist, warrior, killer, golden shaman, missionary, ele wiz, tactian, bun sis, conjurer & drunk reader. I tried every logical combination, and believe me Killer is the first one that got out.
My earlier com is DR, NB, GS, 2 Tactician, then I use it to compare to other
Warrior isnt needed, you only want to dispel their shield, and nightblade is enough
Duelist, tempting but is not as practical as using 2 tactician.
Bun sis, same as above, and tactician can boost more than twice DMR to team.
Conjurer, also the same as above, and its the worst one
Ele wiz, can also shield like tactician, but cant provide bonus DMR to team, and the extra heal also isnt needed.
Missionary, luckily theres no debuff that can chip away the shield really fast, any seed debuff from enemies does worry me, but as long as u can stack more shield its totally fine.
Golden shaman,, yeaah, i realized it very late. My com was so solid that i dont see it need any sort of healing, just stacking shield all the waaay. And the bonus DMR from GS scroll isnt that practical. In theory, it can add a whooping 7000% DMR if you can find the perfect highest scroll chance (200%). BUT it only last 2 turns and you need GS to take turns very often, which is very unlikely in thorn build.

I might switch to GS again if stacking shields eont be enough.
But right now, my current com is 3 Tact, DR, NS. Its the fastest com to clear a level for me rn. About 100sec irl time. Im in MD 1700+ rn.

*about Killer, i tried testing him alone in lower level MD, equipped w/ mindless scroll, shields from yellow effect gears, high DRA high DMR gems and grand heal potion that give extra absorb dmg shield. His star effect wasnt triggering at all, atleast not with all the shield and dmg absorption. You need to take all of those to make it start dealing dmg. Thats why killer is opted out.

The Killer's ability should trigger even when no one else dodges, but what makes it crazy is once your team starts dodging well and adding additional hits/layers. But it doesn't register on the battle log as the skill doing damage, it registers as reflection damage which is why it may appear as it wasn't working. Try it again when you hit MD 2k+

In your analysis you missed the Street Man. In AS form with his scroll he is a dps beast, just not with a DMR build. Can be used to clear every buff from the enemy though.

Your team makes sense and should work fine.

[NOIRE-]

No, as i said, i tested using a single unit killer alone, with mindless scroll, ~50% DRA & ~3000% DMR from gems, and dmg shield from star effect gear & potion.

So when i tested it, the killer stood by taking dmg, but, as long as the shield isnt worn out, it wont proc his star skill.
Its not useless, it just harder to make it work in DMR build. So in this case any shield or dmg absorption is out of the list. So im thinking duelist's tactic, flying feathers gem set + HoT from GS and probably tanker too with dmg reduc talent might suit well if you still wanna use Killer.

[Tenzek]

You don't need the golden shaman to take a lot of turns. His group heal is a tactic. You just need him to spam his tactic. That means you load him up with VIT, DMR and DRA with as much rage efficiency as you can fit incidentally.

[NOIRE-]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

You don't need the golden shaman to take a lot of turns. His group heal is a tactic. You just need him to spam his tactic. That means you load him up with VIT, DMR and DRA with as much rage efficiency as you can fit incidentally.

i can guarantee you, this team is so solid enemies wont leave a scratch to you. No matter how hard they hit it will the same, because a shield is count as an instance, so even a billion dmg is count as one.
Thus even if only using his tactic waste less than a sec, its STILL a waste of time coz its useless (for now, mb)

ANYWAY, dont you worry bruh, i just found the best way to utilize GS to its max potential xD xD
Have you check my recent comment in your post? ;)

[Tenzek]

Which is why you don't care about healing, and you just want the GS to stack reflection damage.

[NOIRE-]

Originally posted by Tenzek:

Which is why you don't care about healing, and you just want the GS to stack reflection damage.

Actually the main reason to use GS is to give HoT effect to the whole team, so flying feather dmg reduction will active
DMR bonus from GS sure is nice, but 3 tactician is faster rn for me.

[Tenzek]

You just got done saying that the shields block any amount of damage. Why would the damage reduction be relevant if it never comes into play? The only thing it does is make your Thorns hits huge and reset everyone else's tactics 40% of the time.

[NOIRE-]

Haha yeah, my bad, 3 tactician shield is enough. Free reset tactic is nice BUT you dont need it coz every tactics is already in order with auto-tactic. Filling rage isnt the problem either, really, the real deal is to survive the first wave of attacks, where sometimes enemies can just attack you immediately before you can even fill your rage and when your initial shield cant tank it, youre dead. Thats where reviving is essential.

Correct me if im wrong dude, but ppl with this build had already past MD 5001+ long long time ago. I never said using GS will fail you, it just not using is a bit faster, for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tenzek]

You can only have 15 shields on at any given time, right? One tactician with a Scroll of Tactics can spam as much as is practically useful.

Yes, people with poison needles passed 5,000 before a patch reduced its effectiveness. Remember, the guy who started this topic is up there, and you're not listening to what he's explaining. Your ideas work at 2,000, but they don't scale infinitely with enemy damage like DMR does.

[NOIRE-]

I do use scroll of tactic in one of my tactician. What the heck r u implying?

Please dont just assuming things and try it for yourself. Heck you dont even know how I manage to do it.

Well,
How bout you try using non-DMR build in MD 2000 with your theory, and then when you failed ill give you some tips to do it. Bcoz right now im climbing it effortlessly, almost MD 2500 btw ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[xanthalus]

I want to say thank you for keeping your disagreement civil and cordial.

I love how even 2+ years later there are still things we are figuring out about this game.

Originally posted by Woojin:

I do use scroll of tactic in one of my tactician. What the heck r u implying?

Please dont just assuming things and try it for yourself. Heck you dont even know how I manage to do it.

Well,
How bout you try using non-DMR build in MD 2000 with your theory, and then when you failed ill give you some tips to do it. Bcoz right now im climbing it effortlessly, almost MD 2500 btw ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've been thinking about your build and I would welcome the data from your team build if and when you are willing to share.