First day of Spring is always the hardest in later years

[MoArtis]

The first weapon is an absolute joke that makes that first day tedious and frustrating.
Its sound effect, its spread, its pathetic range... I can't stand it anymore.

Get us a random first day gun or something. The first day should be a walk in the park (at least relatively) not a rage-inducing experience.

[Mr. Aqua]

If you find the Alien Ant you can make the Pea Shooter better. Also, take it from me, your Pea Shooter can technically get you through the whole game, even unupgraded and on year ten.

[MoArtis]

The question is not about what can be done but about how engaging to use that "weapon" is for most people.
To me, the peashooter should be an entirely optional challenge as it is an additional difficulty source only present on day 1.

[VinceyM]

Pea shooter gun is a good green boy.

[Mr. Aqua]

Well from my experiences I can tell you that the Pea Shooter does require a level of engagement that is potentially higher than other guns. Since it cannot be upgraded it requires real strategy in order to be used wielded effectively. This is unlike max upgraded guns, which can be mindless to use and therefore not engaging. This is due to how strong they are and can just easily wipe the floor with enemy blood. Obviously the Pea Shooter is not like that, and I'm not saying it is, but it requires a certain kind of strategy and careful play not present on other max upgraded guns. So if it's a matter of the player's engagement it can actually be argued the Pea Shooter is higher. So in that regard, the level of engagement is not the problem.

As for the Pea Shooter being difficult on day one, that is true, It's absolutely true. But I don't think players should be given a free random gun right away like that, since it's partially kills the whole idea of the Pea Shooter's permanent upgrades. Plus, that would add another level of RNG I don't think the game needs. Especially as Rye, since potentially you could live based on whatever gun you got from the start for an extremely long while. We already have the Time Capsule, which I would say is plenty RNG enough for the beginning of the run. Adding a random gun property would be too much RNG from the start in my opinion. Also, giving a free gun from the start in the form of a permanent upgrade would make doing Rest In Peas impossible if someone hasn't done it already.

[MoArtis]

Engaging as fun/interesting to use. Posing an interesting challenge that (MOST) players are willing to overcome. I would argue that the PS is an issue that feel imposed to the player more than anything. It's just frustrating. A typical player want to move on as quickly as possible to a better gun. So your first paragraph is off topic.

Again my point is simple. The first day of the first season is an unfun slug. 99% of that is due to that peashooter.
Rest in peas and the PS permanent upgrades are sad (and late) attempts to solve this issue. They can't be used as a justification against the idea of removing the PS from that first day. Because if we solve that issue they become irrelevant and can be replaced.

Another solution with less RNG and that allows to keep RIP: Each character have a different starting gun and/or Introduce a character who start with the peashooter. You can also make Robusta the ultimate challenge and keep it like he is.

[Mr. Aqua]

Originally posted by MoArtis:

So your first paragraph is off topic.

Not really. Just depends on your perspective. The Pea Shooter is interesting because it requires strategy, not because "it's useful because of its upgrades."

Originally posted by MoArtis:

Rest in peas and the PS permanent upgrades are sad (and late) attempts to solve this issue. They can't be used as a justification against the idea of removing the PS from that first day. Because if we solve that issue they become irrelevant and can be replaced.

There's just no reason to remove the Pea Shooter from the first day regardless if it's not fun or not though. It's just part of the game's experience. That would be like in Gungeon's normal mode always giving you a free weapon right off the bat instead of your starter. Doing that is not the intended experience, since you are supposed to use your starting weapon for a while, not just have the game ignore it.

Originally posted by MoArtis:

Each character have a different starting gun and/or Introduce a character who start with the peashooter.

Characters starting with different weapons wouldn't be a good idea, especially only having one with the Pea Shooter as their starter. That would limit who players can play as when going for Rest In Peas. Not to mention it would provide instant buffs to all of the characters, which I don't see as necessary. With the exception of Rye, weapons should not be a primary factor that makes a character viable. Rather, it should be their perks that allow players to design specific builds they want. Having each character start with their own unique weapon is just not right would hinder that entirely.

Anyhow that's all I'm going to say on this. I won't be responding to this further because I've already made my argument clear.

[MoArtis]

"It's just part of the game's experience."
Yeah thanks for your arguments, I guess.

[Midori-San]

Pea shooter isnt that bad hell I even got the acheivment for beat the game only using it

[MoArtis]

I have that achievement and I still think it is one of the worst weapon on any top down shooter I ever had to use.
And like I explained it's not just its stats but also its aesthetics that make that weapon obnoxious.
Even Gungeon's joke weapons feel better.