This is NOT pay to win or pay to play!

[Sir Walter James]

There are extremely few situations (mostly early on) where crystals help you in a meaningful manner. Never do they let you excel over someone who does not pay. IE: if you want a new shield, you must unlock it and earn it just like everyone else. Then for a costly amount you could speed it up by a couple days (no one does this!). You can also earn the crystals in game to use at your leisure too.

Please stop judging it before you plat it. I encourage everyone to try it out. Quit the second you feel like you are being left behind by not purchasing something. The majority of the game is team and coop based anyways.

[Skittles]

but if i decide that i want to throw 50 bucks at this game, i can easily get my tier1 battleships to tier-4 or even higher with the needed modules in less then 1 hour then i would normally. that is the entire point of the crystals is to change something that would take 1 hour to take you 1 second if you had the cash to throw at the game.

all it does is speed up your progression, and instead of taking a month to grind for something, you could make it 2-3 days because you had the cash to throw at the game.

[ian26uk]

Some people can not see the forest through the tree's.
The reason why these type of games excel at making money is because it's a proven fact that if you can make a game addictive people will throw money at it even when "All it does is let you get things instantly rather than waiting".
2 people start this game, both are equal in skill, one man has £400 the other has none. Which one will have better gear after 2 days?
If the answer is A.They will both be equal after two days then the game is not P2W
If the answer is B.The man who spent £400 will have fair better gear and level(but can be just gear) Then the game is P2W no matter how you try and cover it up.

[nemthos]

Originally posted by ian26uk:

Some people can not see the forest through the tree's.
The reason why these type of games excel at making money is because it's a proven fact that if you can make a game addictive people will throw money at it even when "All it does is let you get things instantly rather than waiting".
2 people start this game, both are equal in skill, one man has £400 the other has none. Which one will have better gear after 2 days?
If the answer is A.They will both be equal after two days then the game is not P2W
If the answer is B.The man who spent £400 will have fair better gear and level(but can be just gear) Then the game is P2W no matter how you try and cover it up.

It's not P2W, because A and B won't be fighting against each other after those two days. You could call this game P2R (pay to rush). You can get something faster with cash, but it won't give you a better chance at winning, because every PvP content matches you with people around your level of upgrades

[Qwazzy]

Originally posted by ian26uk:

The man who spent £400 will have fair better gear and level(but can be just gear) Then the game is P2W no matter how you try and cover it up.

This would be correct if the game was centered on players fighting to win against other players.

Guess what? It's not.

A vital word in "pay to win" is the last word - win.

So I challenge you - what exactly is the man who spent £400 going to "win" against the man who spent nothing?

The only PvP modes in the game are conducted with matchmaking against similar-leveled players. There's no such thing as choosing players to attack, or raid, or duel.

Thus, nothing to "win".

[ian26uk]

I specifically said "Which one will have better gear after 2 days?" I never said that they will go and fight each other.I can understand why some people think that P2W only applies if you are in a PVP game but the term does not only apply to PVP but to PVE as well.
You can play many single player games that have a shop where you can buy items like weapons/material etc this can also be called a P2W mechanic since you are Paying to Win the game faster than actually playing the game.
This game can be classed as P2W since you can also buy anything in the game, weapons/materials etc and bypass actually playing the game.Just because the game has a PVP element and it matches you with equal geared people doesnt mean anything.

[Qwazzy]

Originally posted by ian26uk:

I can understand why some people think that P2W only applies if you are in a PVP game but the term does not only apply to PVP but to PVE as well.

No, it doesn't.

If that's true, I'd like to see a citation of some kind, because every single instance of P2W I have ever seen mentioned in the past - every single one - always refers to players spending money to get an advantage over other players in a competitive environment.

[Lanosa]

Ian, if you really think this game is P2W, then prove it. Spend crystals on speed research gear and go to a blue star against at least other player (not just loneships). Let's see if you win them just with your boost acquired gear.

[ian26uk]

http://game-wisdom.com/critical/defining-pay-to-win

Thats one. There are many people who think that P2W is ONLY used if you PVP someone which is not true. P2W is any mechanic that gives the option for people with money to bypass something that someone without money can not. That includes being able to pay to skip waiting and paying to buy materials someone with NO MONEY would have to farm.

[Sir Walter James]

I get your point for most games. But this is such an exception. This game spans years. They fund it based on people thinking it is pay to win. They pay... then they lose, leave, and we play on our free accounts. The exponential growth is hilariously large. Sure, you can rush a level one 10 sword before me... but I have a level 1 pistol to counter it. I don't know how else to say it. They have a pay option that does add some benefit and also serves as a way to fund the game if you want to support it. But at the end of they day, I still say play it. See if you ever feel left behind. If anything, it is pay to plateau faster. And we all reach the same plateau

[ian26uk]

Well Sir Walter at least you almost agree and I never said this is bad to play after all bad games do not make money. These types of games are very good at hiding the fact that most(not all)people will buy at the very least some of the premium currency and then also defend the game from people who try and say anything they think is negative.
My point was simply that the game description makes the game sound like it is a 4x type of game and not a wait to play type and that it a P2W or P2R(which ever term you like) type of game.
Games like this know that people will get impatient at some point and spend some money to speed things up thats why the game starts slow then hit a wall where you need to wait several hours or pay. It attempts to get you to want to get the next upgrade and hope you are addicted enough to buy some crystals. Ofc not everyone is going to do this but enough people will to make them money and if it doesn't they will not think twice about shutting the game down.
It's good that people like yourself are enjoying the game and again I have nothing against people enjoying it just the fact they didnt word their description better and that most people will argue just because I would call this a P2W/P2R mechanic.

[Eddo]

The question is.... pay to win what? You would be right if you say paying more, gets you more in this game, but what progress can you skip? This is arguing sentiment, and if your point hinges on the fact technicality, you really have nothing more to argue.Just because a game is technically P2W, does not mean is necessarily "bad". Shows a distinct lack of intelligence to not think critically, and see things as black and white.

$400 dollars maybe gets you 20K crystals. At the good rate I am at, it gets me 10 million credits. At my level, it gets me 10 planet upgrades. I get around 600k a day from all my income, give or take. Say 500k to be conservative.

$400 right now speeds up my progress by 20 days in credits earned. Quite significant, but considering I have played more than a year and that is what, probably 6 AAA games, is it really realistic people will spend that much for perhaps 8% more progress. Even with all that, I can't get to RS9. You also get a lot less credits, if you choose to speed up your progress as well with crystals, it costs.... approximately 300 crystals per day. You get better rates if you speed up more at a time. So for sake of argument, we spend 250 crystals.

It will take 110 "days" worth of upgrading to speed you through to get 10 planets to level 15, not a particularly high level mind you as 1 to 9 can be done in a couple days. Mid-game basically. If we use at the rate of 250 per day, it will take 27k crystals. And not to mention you need the credits for it.

And not to mention you will need the crystals and cash for scanners, mods, colonizing, ships. I would say, you probably skip the progress to get to RS4, midway to RS5 probably, sizeable progress but you will still be pretty low level compared to everyone else. Median of active players in mobile only probably getting to RS6, and you are not going to get to RS7 by $400 dollars worth of crystals alone I imagine. 90% of all crystals spent probably goes on hydro anyway, or maybe a quick upgrade to help in WS once in a while but that probably is. Is really not sustainable to play this game and spend crystals only on upgrades/cash or speeding up upgrades. Because after all, what is the point of all that if you don't upgrade your ship so you can play RS or WS?



All this, if you want to blow $400 dollars in a mobile game all at once. What this game is, is a game that did P2W right. You can pay, and you get speed advantage, but you don't get things other players can't get by grinding it out. At the same time, you really have to sink a lot of cash to gain significant progress. Most people who are complaining about the fact is essentially is P2W is missing the big picture, or they are very low level still. Or they are super rich.

Tl;dr, is really unrealistic to expect that someone will pay enough to win or gain lasting advantage over everyone else. You can spend 400 dollars now and I won't on a level 1 account, but I will probably still get to RS6 before you get to RS7, where majority of the players are now on mobile.

[ian26uk]

"The Question is ...pay to win what?"

No that is not the question and I can not believe anyone would think that is the question you must not know what P2W means.

"You would be right if you say paying more, gets you more in this game, but what progress can you skip?"

Paying does get you more in this game there called crystals, you can skip all the progress by simply buying the artifacts so you do not need to do a red star then pay to skip the wait pay for the any of the building and level them up etc etc etc You can use crystals to buy items and skip time. You even state later on that you can skip progress so wtf ask the question?

"Just because a game is technically P2W, does not mean is necessarily "bad". Shows a distinct lack of intelligence to not think critically, and see things as black and white. "

Simply a WTF moment on that.

Then a wall of text meaning nothing since you are talking about yourself and trying to apply the $400 to someone that is high level and trying to prove that spending money at YOUR level is pointless when who said anything about P2W only applies to people at end game? P2W mechanics should be used from the standpoint of two new people of equal skill playing the game for the first time........NOT after a year and a half!!!
Fck you might as well throw in the fact that someone who is max level and max materials is not going to use real life money because he has everything THEREFORE this game is not pay to win,lol (Facepalm)

Someone already admitted that the only reason the game is still going is BECAUSE people spend money on buying crystals so like it or not this game is only free to some people because others are using the real life money to buy crystals. Like it or not the game uses mechanics that are by definition P2W.

[izvon2017]

its just your everyday pay to skip. if you are humble with donations, its all good. if you suddenly freak out and throw 10k-20k$ in, especially using a brain, you ll get pretty high pretty fast. and yep, you ll skip months this way at the very least. with good corp

[Lady Iris Valou]

been playing since 18 days ago and only spent $4.99 for starter pack, nothing more. Now, I am holding the #1 blue star season 3 spot. You can progress fast by not spending / only spending that amount of money. You just have to do your best on everything. .

[Qwazzy]

Originally posted by ian26uk:

"The Question is ...pay to win what?"

No that is not the question and I can not believe anyone would think that is the question you must not know what P2W means.

Yes, that IS the question, and will remain the question unless you prove otherwise - because despite your arrogance in insisting you alone know the proper definition, you have utterly failed to define it better than I had. Nice try.

Originally posted by ian26uk:

Paying does get you more in this game there called crystals, you can skip all the progress by simply buying the artifacts so you do not need to do a red star then pay to skip the wait pay for the any of the building and level them up etc etc etc You can use crystals to buy items and skip time. You even state later on that you can skip progress so wtf ask the question?

And again - everything you just described gives ZERO benefits in any PvP part of the game. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Originally posted by ian26uk:

Then a wall of text meaning nothing since you are talking about yourself and trying to apply the $400 to someone that is high level and trying to prove that spending money at YOUR level is pointless when who said anything about P2W only applies to people at end game? P2W mechanics should be used from the standpoint of two new people of equal skill playing the game for the first time........NOT after a year and a half!!!
Fck you might as well throw in the fact that someone who is max level and max materials is not going to use real life money because he has everything THEREFORE this game is not pay to win,lol (Facepalm)

The leveling system matches you with opponents that are of similar level to you. Paying to get an advantage is impossible - you'll just get matched up with a higher level player instead. (Facepalm)

Originally posted by ian26uk:

Someone already admitted that the only reason the game is still going is BECAUSE people spend money on buying crystals so like it or not this game is only free to some people because others are using the real life money to buy crystals. Like it or not the game uses mechanics that are by definition P2W.

While I'm glad the game is getting supported by those in-app purchases, are you seriously trying to say those in-app purchases make the game P2W? Seriously?

You clearly have no clue what P2W means. I explained it earlier on and have yet to see any evidence refuting it.