How is the orbital cannon supposed to work? (Spoilers)

[Fear Ghoul]

So I beat the game and this is one part of the story I don't really understand. So the reason for the loops is that the Ash Twin Project activates a black hole using power from the exploding sun, and like we see in that experiment on Ember Twin with the black hole and white hole, with enough power they can have something appear before it comes out, so the loops are the information going back in time to your character.

The orbital cannon is firing probes out all over the place in an attempt at finding the Eye, and we find out from reading logs that the Nomai involved with it wanted to put way too much power into it and didn't care if it broke, which seems to be what's going on at the beginning of the game. What I don't understand is how it's facing a different direction at the beginning of each loop. I'm guessing the information it sends out on what the probes find is also sent back, so it's supposed to adjust where it fires based on that? It's just strange how it's already facing a different direction right away instead of starting at a certain point and then having to adjust from there.

Am I also supposed to assume it's been firing for over 380,000 years, and this just happens to be when it finally breaks from being fired off with too much power?

[Fear Ghoul]

After typing that I noticed there was an achievement in the game called You've Met A Terrible Fate. That can't be a coincidence.

[Infinite_Data]

The cannon unfortunately creates a pretty major plothole and it's a shame, because it could be fixed quite easily. Everything ahead is spoilers, obviously.

We know the cannon was activated for the first time when the sun went supernova after reaching the end of its lifespan. The same event starts the player character's time loop. That means for every loop the player goes through, the cannon fires in another direction. However, when you find the probe tracking module, it says it found the Eye after something like 8 or 9 million attempts. I understand that this was chosen as a relatively believable number, but how come the cannon has had this many chances to fire when the player will have never been through that many loops? There are two explanations I can think of:

1. There are millions of loops the cannon goes through in which the player character never pairs with the Nomai statue, thus we don't see them. They only get trapped in the time loop after the cannon's already been through all these iterations. This would actually make quite a bit of sense, though it's not implied in any way as far as I can tell.

2. There are millions of loops which we don't see and the ones we play through are only the "highlights" of the player character's time loop adventures. I really don't like this idea - it works in a movie, but not in a game. Also, again, the game never suggests this is the case.

So how would I fix this problem? Easy, just have the probe tracker's counter show a number smaller than or equal to the actual number of loops the player's been through before reaching the tracker's location. Yes, this does mean the number would be incredibly small, but I suppose that would add a layer of irony to the Nomai's tragedy - they would have only needed 20 or so cannons (of course only in theory) to find the Eye.

[Fear Ghoul]

Like Nert said, the idea seems to bee that the loops have been going on for an extremely long time. Each time it fires, the probe goes somewhere, then the Ash Twin Project activates with the sun going supernova, this sends the data back about 24 or so minutes, then the cannon adjusts and fires off in a new direction. Like Nert said, if you look at the records saying which firing found the Eye and then compare it to how many have fired in total, you'll see that the first firing you see in the game is the one that found the eye. We should assume that our character each time woke up, went to to get the launch codes, flew around in space a little, then died, each time in the same way, but when the game starts, that's when the probe found the Eye and activated the statues. Our character just happened to be the one near the statue when this happened, and that's why the loops start for our character.

[Infinite_Data]

I guess that makes sense. I do remember the Nomai mentioning something about how unbearable it would be to be stuck in the "failed" loops. But yeah, overall, pretty bad plan. Seems like the Quantum Moon was a much better way to find the Eye.

[Nert]

Without the statues activated we were just another NPC not remembering the millions of loops before our game started.. The statue activates mid-loop when we're near it, but not while Hal or Hornfels were near it earlier - because that was the exact moment the Eye was located by the current probe, activating the statues because the project has finally succeeded!

In theory if you could chase that very first probe you'd reach the Eye manually! the devs confirmed they wanted that to be possible, but couldn't get it to work the way they wanted in this engine..

The Nomai already tried using the QM and concluded it was impossible to reach the Eye from there, that was back before they built the locators which also failed, only after that did they discover time travel and come up with the ATP plan

If the sun station had worked, their plan surprisingly would've been flawless! Apart from those aboard the OPC having a really, really horrible time each loop..

[Infinite_Data]

Nert eredeti hozzászólása:

The Nomai already tried using the QM and concluded it was impossible to reach the Eye from there, that was back before they built the locators which also failed, only after that did they discover time travel and come up with the ATP plan

Yeah that's one of the big plot (in)conveniences. It's never said why you can't reach the Eye from the Quantum Moon, you just can't because then there'd be no story. You can reach every other planet it travels to and you can clearly reach the Eye by just going to where it is (unless the Vessel's warp is supposed to go directly inside the Eye and that's the only way it can be accessed - via warping. Honestly, I'd rather think about the ending as little as possible). Curiously, as I was leaving the star system for an achievement, I believe I saw the Quantum Moon hanging out in deep space, so I think it might even actually physically go to the sixth location. I think it just has an impeccable sense of plot utility and sends you to Timber Hearth instead if you try to leave it while at the Eye's location.

[GoulactiX]

Ironically , the ash twin project could have saved the Nomai race from the ghost matter extinction . as nobody (inside the solar system....?) could die while being inside a time loop (that part confuses me)

[Infinite_Data]

GoulactiX eredeti hozzászólása:

Ironically , the ash twin project could have saved the Nomai race from the ghost matter extinction . as nobody (inside the solar system....?) could die while being inside a time loop (that part confuses me)

Yes, the Ash Twin Project would have saved the Nomai if it had been activated as scheduled because they would have learnt just not to release the ghost matter. By "nobody could die while being inside a time loop" I assume you're referring to the surviving Nomai on the Quantum Moon, since people in time loops clearly can die, it just doesn't really matter to them since they keep getting "reset". I believe her survival is a result of being on the Moon, she's not in a time loop (though why the Quantum Moon kept her alive seems to be a complete mystery - "quantum" basically means "magic" anyway).

What I want to know is how did the Hearthians survive the ghost matter? The anglerfish, I imagine, were safe inside the Dark Bramble, but what protected the Hearthians?

[Nert]

GoulactiX eredeti hozzászólása:

nobody (inside the solar system....?) could die while being inside a time loop (that part confuses me)

It's time itself that's being rewritten! Doesn't matter how far away in the universe anyone is! If it helps, note that when the loop ends there are almost no stars left, but when we loop they're all back!

The ATP wouldn't have protected them at all though - you only resist death if your death is within an active loop, *and* you can prevent that death somehow before stopping the loop!

The interloper was a complete freak accident, they didn't know anything about it until reaching the core, and then it exploded because the pressure was building as it came close to our sun

Even if the ATP had coincidentally been active and they rounded up everyone for a swim in Giant's Deep, unless they all learned how to breathe underwater for the next few thousand years, it'd still kill them.. Maybe with enough loops they could in desperation explore Bramble, find the Vessel and plan to grab the warp core and pick everyone up and get out of there in time but.. that'd be a very different story!


Solanum isn't really alive, as she states herself, instead she's entangled with the moon itself. Just like rocks, trees, cacti and skeletons became quantum with exposure to shards, being on the moon for so long and 5/6ths killed now means she only exists when someone's there to observe her, it's why she thinks no time has passed and she only just arrived..

The same thing can happen to us if do the QM ending! Pull the ATP core and go hang out on the 6th location while the supernova wipes out 1-5.. The screen fades to black and you're told: "How long have you been here? Minutes? Years? You are unsure but it seems your journey has reached its end."

Infinite_Data eredeti hozzászólása:

What I want to know is how did the Hearthians survive the ghost matter? The anglerfish, I imagine, were safe inside the Dark Bramble, but what protected the Hearthians?

Heathians survived because GM is inert in water, that's why all remaining fauna is (or was) aquatic, like the jellyfish, or the fish that Hearthians eat! Riebeck kinda reveals this this if we talk to them about the Interloper, "Stars above, it’s lucky we hadn’t evolved to live on land yet."

You can test it in-game too using islands on Giant's Deep, particularly the cave on Gabbro's island that's full of it, when the island lifts up and drops down underwater, you can swim right through the GM

[Infinite_Data]

I'm pretty sure the Nomai released the Ghost Matter from the Interloper themselves. It's been a while since I went there (no reason to revisit) but I think you can even find messages from some of them asking the one who ended up releasing it to be careful with the Interloper's core. Not a big loss if you ask me.

[Dustin Dalby]

Infinite_Data eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm pretty sure the Nomai released the Ghost Matter from the Interloper themselves. It's been a while since I went there (no reason to revisit) but I think you can even find messages from some of them asking the one who ended up releasing it to be careful with the Interloper's core. Not a big loss if you ask me.

I don't think that's correct. Poke and Pye found "a spherical stone casing", the exploded remains of which we find ourselves, and performed non-invasive analysis ("energy readings") of the casing first.

Considering the dialog, it is clear both characters quickly became aware that attempting to extract the contents of the casing would result in catastrophe ("we do not want this matter interacting with us" followed by the realisation that said matter is "under tonnes of pressure"). It's hard to imagine Pye attempting to crack the casing, even after Poke's departure, after they realised what would happen if the casing were to crack.

Considering the size of the ruptured casing we find, and the location we find it at, it is clear no attempt was made to move the casing itself either.

Moreover, considering Pye being left alone, and how long they were on the scene before the explosion happened (which has to be a matter of minutes considering how far Poke maganed to get), it's clear there was very little means or indeed time for Pye to do anything.

From all these facts I conclude that the Interloper blew up from mounting pressure from increased proximity with the sun provoking a rise in temperature, and the Nomai simply got there too late to do anything but realise what was about to happen.

[Nert]

Infinite_Data eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm pretty sure the Nomai released the Ghost Matter from the Interloper themselves. It's been a while since I went there (no reason to revisit) but I think you can even find messages from some of them asking the one who ended up releasing it to be careful with the Interloper's core. Not a big loss if you ask me.

Nah, it's the other way around, the one doing the warning (Pye) is the one close to it

PYE: This is orders of magnitude worse than I’d imagined. If this stone were to rupture, the lethal matter within would rapidly expand, completely blanketing this star system almost instantaneously. And the pressure is still building as the comet approaches this star system...

POKE: What are you doing, Pye?!

PYE: The more we know about this alien matter, the better our chances of survival. I will learn what I can here. Go, warn the others; maybe they can construct shelter somehow. ...*Now*, Poke!

You could infer whatever scan she did was the final straw but since she knew not to rupture it it seems unlikely she then did exactly that

[Infinite_Data]

Nert eredeti hozzászólása:

You could infer whatever scan she did was the final straw but since she knew not to rupture it it seems unlikely she then did exactly that

There was also no reason whatsoever to push the orbital cannon so far that it could explode and all that could achieve was jeopardising the whole project, but they still did it. I really hope the Nomai were responsible for releasing the Ghost Matter, it seems like poetic justice for all the previous times they got away with doing things they shouldn't have.

[Dustin Dalby]

Infinite_Data eredeti hozzászólása:

Nert eredeti hozzászólása:

You could infer whatever scan she did was the final straw but since she knew not to rupture it it seems unlikely she then did exactly that

There was also no reason whatsoever to push the orbital cannon so far that it could explode and all that could achieve was jeopardising the whole project, but they still did it. I really hope the Nomai were responsible for releasing the Ghost Matter, it seems like poetic justice for all the previous times they got away with doing things they shouldn't have.

There actually was : more power means the probe travels further. Picture a sphere, the radius of which is the distance the probe travels in 22 minutes. If the Eye is located outside of that sphere, no matter how many times you shoot, you'll never find the Eye.

Pushing the canon so far it explodes accelerates the probe the fastest it can possibly be accelerated, which means it travels the furthest it can possibly go in these 22 minutes, which means you get the largest possible sphere.

[Dustin Dalby]

Apologies for the double-post but something came to mind.
If you want poetic justice, you might find solace in realising Pye was the main driving mind behind the Sun Station. She tried, and failed, to produce a big kaboom that would have wiped all life in the solar system, only to find the thing that would go kaboom and wipe almost all life in the solar system, and be unable to do anything about it. Those last few minutes must have been tragic.