Dialog - To Stop Time or Not to Stop Time?

[ChrisPharmD]

I'm sure this is a preference question, but I'm curious as to what others think.

I know basically nothing about this game except that there's a timed mechanic which was spoiled for me, though I'm not too upset because that intrigued me to try this game.

I'm the type of person who exhausts all dialog, talks to the same NPC over and over again to see if there's any new dialog. It's almost like I have an obsession with ensuring I read every dialog option no matter how insignificant it is to the overall experience of the game.

I see the default settings, and time is set to progress even during dialog. Do you think it hinders the play through of the game if I opt to stop time while talking to NPCs?

So, now imagine my blind play through of Cave Story missing all the secrets while at the same time thinking I'm such a genius to talk to each NPC multiple times. Somewhat ironic.

[ChrisPharmD]

Awesome! Thanks for the tips.

Not to make excuses because it's really just a "Be Better" situation, but when I try to navigate that structure orbiting the water planet, I always end up with so little fuel by the time I'm inside that I'm usually dead. I need to figure out a better location to land my ship. And I just need to play better. That said, the reason I haven't explored this area more is because I'm putting it off since I have such trouble with it.

I did want to touch on something that I'm not an expert on. So, I'm not any kind of authority on the subject. However, I feel like I've tested the concept of maintaining speed after using fuel. The reason I tested it was because I had lost my ship and there were no close planets for me to get to. So, I remembered a YouTube video (VSauce? Smarter Every Day? Can't remember...) and tried the concept. It did not seem to work at all. That has also been times where I'm on a planet that displays "0 Gravity" and I still need to use boosters to jump. And yes, I know that it's impossible to be at zero gravity if near a planet, but I just thought the game would play by the rules set by it. Anyway, this isn't a big deal.

I did know that you could take a puzzle piece and get dialog from them. I just don't remember ends up to be all that useful. The Nomai dialog sometimes bothers me because, though you can stop time while deciphering, it doesn't appear that sand stops flowing into Ember Twin while reading. It becomes even more odd when you're rushing through the planet maze, finding small bits of dialog to guide you, yet sometimes the writings on the wall get a bit elaborate for a species trying to escape the rising sand.

I would question the Twin Planets concept altogether actually. Sand is flowing from one planet to its sister planet. However, there has to a point of equilibrium where the sand is equal on both planets. If that's not the case, why did it all of a sudden start flowing the day I woke up?

The planet Brittle Hollow is odd, too, because you have a moon that is destroying the surface while a literal black hole is destroying the center. How this planet even came into existence really kills my suspension of disbelief because it would be literally impossible though I give it a pass simply for the sake of it being cool.

I'm not really "complaining" because I genuinely do like the game. However, when the whole universe is a "puzzle" or "mystery" and I have to uncover that mystery, I start to question whether actual logic is a good source for problem solving.

This all circles back around to this idea that the villagers are just the tutorial and that they aren't important and that this adventure is supposed to be a solo one. Then, after trying to find a lot of "stuff" on my own, people remind me to use my signalscope to locate the travelers. I find this somewhat frustrating because I've been conditioned now to not care about the NPCs at all.

After meeting Esker, I learned of the Harmonica sound coming from the seed and Dark Bramble. Why didn't Esker simply tell you himself about the odd Harmonica signal since he's lonely and so bored that he's sending Scouts to fly back to Timber Hearth? A man with literally nothing to do only has a bare bones dialog tree with no real information.

When Gabbro is brought up, I think every NPC in the game says the same line - "Gabbro is Gabbro." This seems to be a clear indication that Gabbro is an idiot and not worth talking to, but I bet this is where the trolling happens and he turns out to be the most intelligent and helpful NPC in the game. But due to my extremely poor experience with NPCs, there hasn't been one time when I thought to myself, "I should go find the travelers in space." Because up until this point, all NPCs are garbage.

Riebeck has probably been my favorite NPC so far because he actually seems like a genuine and relatable being. He is literally the only NPC in the entire game that gives you positive feedback for telling him what you've learned. He seems like a chill dude rather than overly sarcastic or obtuse like everybody else. And despite the irony of him being fearful of space flight, his fear of space helps you relate to him as a character.

The reason the NPC issue is a major issue is because the mindset you have about NPCs overflows into what you think about the deciphered dialog of the Nomai. When you see puns, you begin to think they're morons, too. It's not the fact that an ancient species shouldn't use puns, but it's odd that they would document such a mundane and useless piece of information. There's also other discussions which display love, humor, etc., but the Nomai go from being this huge mystery to being a species just as dumb as the villagers.

I'm not suggesting that the Nomai should be robots with no emotion nor am I saying they should be perfect. I'm just saying that the writing for this game discourages you from even caring about what's said except to add to your ship's log.

Somebody pointed out that there was problem with the writing because players were trying to find lore where there was none and missing the point. That's not my problem nor is it the player's problem. That's a dev problem. If you can't create a story written in such a way that matches the glorious 10/10 experience of space exploration, then just own it that your NPCs suck. I realize Indie Devs have limited funds to work with, but that doesn't mean you can hand wash away all problems by simply saying, "It's an Indie Game, dude." I'm also not saying it's game breaking. But it sure as hell is frustrating, and it may be why some people quit playing because they are confused by the poor NPC game design.

It's still a great game! I'm just not the type of person who is all in or all out when it comes to games. I criticize my favorite games because criticism makes videogames better. I'm also not an authority on videogame development, but I don't want to have to preface literally everything I say with that. Most importantly... Subjectivity is Implied!

[ChrisPharmD]

Okay, so I found the NPC on Ash Twin (Drums) and I found Gabbro. Everybody thinks "Gabbro is Gabbro" because he's experiencing the same time loop while also waking up to the shuttle cannon going off during every loop.

In an attempt to get into the big hurricane, I somehow manage to get myself under the island and found the big statues. I think it's called the Workshop? I realize the Ash Project is something along the lines of making statues that pair with individuals to store memories. I don't know exactly why yet, though. And I don't know quite yet why the loop is happening.

I also went back to Ember Twin and navigated through the Ghost Matter into the area where the Nomai are apparently treating the "Eye" as if it's some kind of divine being. But some of the Nomai are asking the same questions about the eye that we do about a god. How is it possible to exist before the universe came into existence? Is it even really a thing? Does it even have a "will"? Or is the signal we received simply a coincidence and we're wasting our time?

The lines on the walls are starting to become jagged, which leads me to consider a few things. Maybe these jagged lines are signifying that the authors aren't a main Nomai character. I also considered that maybe it means I've already read the piece of dialog, but after thinking about it more, I've come across many duplicate readings and they weren't jagged lines. So, I can only come to one conclusion, and it's that maybe the "jagged line" is a piece of dialog that somebody (or some thing) tried to erase or encrypt so these ideas wouldn't spread. Many religious people try to censor ideas that could cause followers to question faith. But ultimately, I don't know what the significance of the jagged line is.

I also found clothed dead bodies around the area, and I'm wondering if the Twin Planets are the last place the Nomai were found. You can find bones of Nomai on your own planet, but that was probably one of the Nomai's first steps in this whole process and clothing might also be a sign of religion as well. OR it could be protection against the Sun's heat.

The final thing I've learned is that there was a planet of ice which was destroyed by the quickly spreading seeds. In the process, ice flew in all directions causing craters throughout the solar system. The Attlerock, for example. It's also the source of the comet. I can only imagine that this planet is the source of all the volatility in the solar system, including the destruction of the Sun itself.

I haven't messed around with the comet yet, but I'm going to do that at some point. I still haven't found the Probe Tacking Module, which I'm guessing is my next goal. Either that or the comet. I do think Gabbro might be worth talking to again now that I've discovered stuff which would seem important to him, but.............................................. I DUNNO... he might just have the same dialog.

I'm pretty surprised I found so much stuff in so little time when I spent the entire day yesterday finding nearly nothing. I'm starting to wonder if I'm nearing endgame, and if so, what is the thing I'm intended to do? Stop the sun from blowing up somehow? That's my best guess.

[ChrisPharmD]

Okay, whatever.

So, I made it inside the comet, but there's Ghost Matter preventing me from entering the core of it. I'm not sure what to do from here.

I tried a few things. I attempted to lighten the load of the comet by calling back the shuttle that was on it. My thought process was maybe its trajectory would change and it would collide with Dark Bramble. That didn't work, but just to make sure I didn't land my ship on it just in case that would help.

I explored Brittle Hollow more and found a way to get inside the Quantum Theory place by letting it go into the black hole which would let me fly into the main area, but other than dialog, I didn't find much.

I called back the shuttle that was on the Phantom Moon, but I forgot to go inside of it. Now that I think of it, the black hole's gravity is so high that I don't think I'd be able to fly to it.

There are leads to follow. I was just thinking it would have been cool if making the comet collide with Dark Bramble did something.

I don't love the idea of following the Quantum lead because I don't like disappearing stuff, but I guess it's the next project to figure out how to progress.

[ChrisPharmD]

Oh what if I call back the Shuttle on the Phantom Moon and then shoot it at the lava moon? I wonder if that would do anything

[ChrisPharmD]

I successfully launched the shuttle into the lava moon.... the only problem was that I was on board and I died.

Maybe I should do it while not on board next time.

[ChrisPharmD]

I successfully shot the shuttle that was on the Phantom Moon at the lava moon, but it doesn't seem to have done anything. Also, I can no longer call the shuttle back, which is actually a good discovery because now I know if a shuttle has been destroyed, it is gone forever.

I don't know if that is practical knowledge, but I'm starting to grasp at straws.

Also, after reading the notes on Brittle Hollow, I'm almost certain Feldspar is on the Phantom Moon. I would bet all the money that Mohgay has that I'm correct. That way, if I'm wrong, he'd go broke which would make me happy.

I'm 100% just kidding actually. I'd be sad because when I say something, I expect to always be correct... apparently.

Also, I don't want to see anybody go broke.

This game is actually driving me a bit crazy. I might play Cave Story for a little bit just to break up my continuous trial and error at random stuff I think about while playing this game.

[ChrisPharmD]

At this point, I'm just blogging, but I discovered what appear to be fish eggs inside of Dark Bramble. It's surrounded by like 5 anglerfish.

There's literally no way to get to the eggs, though.

This game gets weirder and weirder.

[Quillithe]

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

So, I made it inside the comet, but there's Ghost Matter preventing me from entering the core of it. I'm not sure what to do from here.

There should be a path you can find that's clear if you look around enough.

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

I explored Brittle Hollow more and found a way to get inside the Quantum Theory place by letting it go into the black hole which would let me fly into the main area, but other than dialog, I didn't find much.

Wow, you found that one with no problem.

Here's some brief suggestions of places, trying not to be too spoilery

Did you go to the observatory on brittle hollow?

It sounds like you found the city on brittle hollow in general (the messy writing is a school). Does your log say there is more to explore? There's a lot around there.

Did you track all the signals you can find? There are different types.

Also, your ships log is divided into colors, each color is basically it's own big mystery and they're all independent, so you should have a few places you can work on. It's also a good way to track where you've been and where you've heard of.

Don't worry too much about the shuttles.

The hourglass planets presumably go back and forth, it doesn't seem very physically reasonably I'll admit. And I think brittle hollow supposedly just now started falling apart?

The puns in the messages are mainly Pye I think (there's a little distinct personality), and it makes more sense when you consider this is basically you finding a bunch of ancient text messages between people as they're working on something - and there aren't that many so it's almost an extended family sort of deal where they're pretty close and not distant professional coworkers or something.

[ChrisPharmD]

Quillithe eredeti hozzászólása:

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

So, I made it inside the comet, but there's Ghost Matter preventing me from entering the core of it. I'm not sure what to do from here.

There should be a path you can find that's clear if you look around enough.

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

I explored Brittle Hollow more and found a way to get inside the Quantum Theory place by letting it go into the black hole which would let me fly into the main area, but other than dialog, I didn't find much.

Wow, you found that one with no problem.

Here's some brief suggestions of places, trying not to be too spoilery

Did you go to the observatory on brittle hollow?

It sounds like you found the city on brittle hollow in general (the messy writing is a school). Does your log say there is more to explore? There's a lot around there.

The Quantum Theory place was somewhat obvious to me ONLY because the gravity of the black hole was too strong to boost at all. So, when I saw the "tower," I immediately knew to fly my ship up to the top... but the problem was the holes were too small to let my ship through.

I didn't know how the game engine worked, but I figured it was worth a shot to see if the moon would break the tower in pieces (similar to how the cannon over the water planet breaks).

When the entire thing was sucked into the black hole, I immediately know that was my key to getting to that area.

Prior to that, I spent a very long time trying to figure out how to teleport from the White Hole area back to Brittle Hollow. I would stand on the teleporter, but nothing would happen. I kept going through the two gravity lifts thinking that would force the structure to spin so I could align it right, but it turned out there was a simple ball to move to cause it to align.

Did I find the Southern Observatory? After almost rage quitting the game, I did. That was the most frustrating thing I had experienced up until that point of the game. Well, no trying to figure out the anglerfish puzzle on the Twin Planets was the most frustrating thing. Anglerfish are blind? No way.

I finally broke when I actually tried to find the 3rd Beacon. The anglerfish in the seed are complete and absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. The clues to clear them was that they were blind, but duh.... and to stay against the wall until they let you pass. That's great and everything until you/re so focused on the fish that the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wall kills you because you slam into it too hard. I had to look it up. So, apparently you're supposed to just stay still as your momentum coasts you past them. That is the most ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ever. Your body literally phases through their teeth as if they're ghosts. You can literally throw a party as long as you don't touch the left stick. You can spin around, shoot your Scout, take a ♥♥♥♥, and the anglerfish will be like, "Hey whatever dude." But the second you touch the left stick, if their body is rendered on screen, they immediately kill you.

Who designed that ♥♥♥♥ because I'm banning them from ever designing videogames ever again? The guy who wrote the crap dialog. Yeah, he stays. He's cool. The anglerfish guy. He's going to work for 7/11... in Japan.

[ChrisPharmD]

Oh so now I'm stuck because I can't get past the electricity of the core in the water planet. I found the Quantum Puzzle within the hurricane island and cleared it as the sun was exploding. So, I did it again just in case.

I tried to cross the electricity with my ship, but it broke my electrical equipment. So, I had to repair it. I tried to shoot a Scout through it but it bounced off.

But the dumbest thing I did was attempt to pass through it without my suit on because my suit is made of electricity. I immediately drowned. How do you drown in 1 second? I'll give it a pass since if you were that far down in Jupiter, you'd instantly die.

I have found the Hanging City. I haven't explored the whole thing yet according to my log. I also haven't explored the entire underground city on the Twin Planets. But that seems impossible. You get barely any time to do anything. That's why the anglerfish puzzle down there was frustrating.

One thing I will say is that the last few times the sun exploded, I'm not sure I actually died. The sun animation was cut off by some kind of Nomai animation. But the sun didn't come close to hitting me. That had never happened before.

As far as the comet, I checked all the paths. I made it down to a very large room where there's literally only one path down and it's all Ghost Matter. It's literally impossible to get through it. I feel like I've shot the Scout through every single path. I must be missing something.

[Quillithe]

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

I finally broke when I actually tried to find the 3rd Beacon. The anglerfish in the seed are complete and absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. The clues to clear them was that they were blind, but duh.... and to stay against the wall until they let you pass. That's great and everything until you/re so focused on the fish that the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wall kills you because you slam into it too hard. I had to look it up. So, apparently you're supposed to just stay still as your momentum coasts you past them. That is the most ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ever. Your body literally phases through their teeth as if they're ghosts. You can literally throw a party as long as you don't touch the left stick. You can spin around, shoot your Scout, take a ♥♥♥♥, and the anglerfish will be like, "Hey whatever dude." But the second you touch the left stick, if their body is rendered on screen, they immediately kill you.

The idea is they're blind so they find you by hearing. No thrusters, no sound. I think touching them still wakes them up though,you just get close, you don't really touch them.

The other stuff should wake them up too, but I guess they were just being nice.

also no harm in needing a tip or two, I ended up looking up two things. One of them I probably should have figured out, and it was going to hint at the other which I really had the idea and just needed a tip on implementation.

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

Did I find the Southern Observatory? After almost rage quitting the game, I did. That was the most frustrating thing I had experienced up until that point of the game. Well, no trying to figure out the anglerfish puzzle on the Twin Planets was the most frustrating thing. Anglerfish are blind? No way.

Spoiler about what you learn there: you should know how to get under the currents on giant's deep then.

That's pretty close to one of the big mysteries, and if you can get past anglerfish you should be close to another. Not sure how far you are on the others, but Ember twin might be a helpful place to look around.

[Quillithe]

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

Oh so now I'm stuck because I can't get past the electricity of the core in the water planet. I found the Quantum Puzzle within the hurricane island and cleared it as the sun was exploding. So, I did it again just in case.

I tried to cross the electricity with my ship, but it broke my electrical equipment. So, I had to repair it. I tried to shoot a Scout through it but it bounced off.

But the dumbest thing I did was attempt to pass through it without my suit on because my suit is made of electricity. I immediately drowned. How do you drown in 1 second? I'll give it a pass since if you were that far down in Jupiter, you'd instantly die.

I have found the Hanging City. I haven't explored the whole thing yet according to my log. I also haven't explored the entire underground city on the Twin Planets. But that seems impossible. You get barely any time to do anything. That's why the anglerfish puzzle down there was frustrating.

One thing I will say is that the last few times the sun exploded, I'm not sure I actually died. The sun animation was cut off by some kind of Nomai animation. But the sun didn't come close to hitting me. That had never happened before.

As far as the comet, I checked all the paths. I made it down to a very large room where there's literally only one path down and it's all Ghost Matter. It's literally impossible to get through it. I feel like I've shot the Scout through every single path. I must be missing something.

There's a trick to the electricity, you'll find it out elsewhere.

Yeah you do die pretty fast without air, they just made one 'no air' death and it makes more sense for vacuum and less sense for water.

Did you find the shortcuts to the cities? They each have a fast way to get in that should give you more time to look around.

There's a reason for the sun animation.

For the comet you should eventually find a big room with something in it and a message. Otherwise there is always a tunnel to go further in somewhere.

[ChrisPharmD]

Quillithe eredeti hozzászólása:

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

Oh so now I'm stuck because I can't get past the electricity of the core in the water planet. I found the Quantum Puzzle within the hurricane island and cleared it as the sun was exploding. So, I did it again just in case.

I tried to cross the electricity with my ship, but it broke my electrical equipment. So, I had to repair it. I tried to shoot a Scout through it but it bounced off.

But the dumbest thing I did was attempt to pass through it without my suit on because my suit is made of electricity. I immediately drowned. How do you drown in 1 second? I'll give it a pass since if you were that far down in Jupiter, you'd instantly die.

I have found the Hanging City. I haven't explored the whole thing yet according to my log. I also haven't explored the entire underground city on the Twin Planets. But that seems impossible. You get barely any time to do anything. That's why the anglerfish puzzle down there was frustrating.

One thing I will say is that the last few times the sun exploded, I'm not sure I actually died. The sun animation was cut off by some kind of Nomai animation. But the sun didn't come close to hitting me. That had never happened before.

As far as the comet, I checked all the paths. I made it down to a very large room where there's literally only one path down and it's all Ghost Matter. It's literally impossible to get through it. I feel like I've shot the Scout through every single path. I must be missing something.

There's a trick to the electricity, you'll find it out elsewhere.

Yeah you do die pretty fast without air, they just made one 'no air' death and it makes more sense for vacuum and less sense for water.

Did you find the shortcuts to the cities? They each have a fast way to get in that should give you more time to look around.

There's a reason for the sun animation.

For the comet you should eventually find a big room with something in it and a message. Otherwise there is always a tunnel to go further in somewhere.

I thought about shortcuts for the underground city since you escape near the gravity cannon, but IIRC you need to unlock a door to jump out of that. So, I just go through the distress signal area and try to get there as fast as possible. I can get there in 30 seconds to 1 minute.

Brittle Hollow is way more complicated. Trying to fly your ship down there is ridiculously hard because of the gravity from the black hole and hitting stuff. I always break my ship down there.

The only path I know is the Southern Observatory path because I attempted it like 10 times before I even realized there was more places to jump. I'm pretty sure the only reason I found the Hanging City was attempting to find either the Northern Glacier or the Southern Observatory. There's so much going on with that planet that I feel like I'm always lost.

[Bobywan]

Use your scout to spot ghost matter in the comet and elsewhete.
The secret to the electric barrier is on another place.

[Quillithe]

ChrisPharmD eredeti hozzászólása:

I thought about shortcuts for the underground city since you escape near the gravity cannon, but IIRC you need to unlock a door to jump out of that. So, I just go through the distress signal area and try to get there as fast as possible. I can get there in 30 seconds to 1 minute.

Brittle Hollow is way more complicated. Trying to fly your ship down there is ridiculously hard because of the gravity from the black hole and hitting stuff. I always break my ship down there.

The only path I know is the Southern Observatory path because I attempted it like 10 times before I even realized there was more places to jump. I'm pretty sure the only reason I found the Hanging City was attempting to find either the Northern Glacier or the Southern Observatory. There's so much going on with that planet that I feel like I'm always lost.

Sounds like you're doing these both the hard way:

Brittle Hollow
First off, flying underground is hard, you can just land at the ruins with Riebeck and climb down the building and run down the road following the signs. But also if you enter through there and turn right there's an exit back to the surface in a tower. If you can remember where it comes out, you can just land there in the future.

Ember Twin (you pretty much know this one)
You don't need to unlock any door, you can just land at the gravity cannon and go right inside.

Those are the big places you're likely to need multiple trips so they have easy access like this right from the surface.

Also for brittle hollow there's a map of sorts near Riebeck that shows all the locations on the planet and how they connect.