[DLC] [SPOILERS] Thoughts after finishing DLC

[Aragon]

After beating the DLC and discovering that the prisoner disengaged the signal for a brief moment, I was wondering:
1 - Why would someone disengage the signal, puting his own kind in danger or even the entire universe?
2 - Why does the game portrait him (the prisoner) as some kind of "good guy" and the others as "bad guys"?

I know, all the game story only happens because of his actions, but c'mon man! Releasing the signal while everyone was sleeping? That was low and I can't see a reason for that.

What are your thoughts about it?

[choongmyoung]

1 - People have his/her own belief. I'd suspect the prisoner thought all the nature things should be leaved as it is, including The Eye. Even though it could destroy everything. (I personally object this kind of argument)
2 - Eventually, The Eye was the only way to revive the universe and save it... kinda. But I still think the prisoner is the bad guy and others good guys. If they didn't seal The Eye again, maybe the whole universe was turned into ashes before its natural death, the big freeze.

I think devs put this irony intentionally. Can it be evaluated as a good thing, doing something bad but resulted in a good ending anyway?

[Quillithe]

I'm wondering if maybe he thought they'd misunderstood the eye, as I feel they did. After all, the eye doesn't destroy anything - time does!

It seems like they may have misunderstood the eye watching the universe die and thought it was the eye causing the universe to die. I felt like the ashes and the new growth was more metaphorical - they learned that the universe would die and a new one would begin, and hid from that fact where the player faces it.

[lieutenantkirtar]

Recommend beating the main game again now that you have finished the DLC, there is someone new to talk to.

[King in Yellow]

Originally posted by lieutenantkirtar:

Recommend beating the main game again now that you have finished the DLC, there is someone new to talk to.

THANK YOU!!

[LupisLight]

Maybe the Stranger's inhabitants hid the Eye's signal because they didn't want anyone to go through the same tragedy they did.

It occurs to me that since the Nomai never actually were able to reach the Eye, they never found out it's purpose like we and the owl-deer did. Which makes me wonder how they would have reacted to this revelation.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Aragon:

1 - Why would someone disengage the signal, puting his own kind in danger or even the entire universe?
2 - Why does the game portrait him (the prisoner) as some kind of "good guy" and the others as "bad guys"?

At the beginning, the Owldeer revered the Eye just like the Nomai did. But then, someone among them figured out what "firing of" the Eye actually does (i.e. it obliterates everything in the current universe while creating a new one - it's basically a reset button of the universe) and they got afraid, they didn't want their culture to end. They convinced others that the Eye is something to be afraid of, because it will destroy them. (That's the point where they burned down the church, as you've seen in the reel film.) They ultimately decided to contain the Eye's signal by a probe.
Now why is the Eye's signal so important. You see, the Eye cannot do its job by itself. It requires some conscious being to enter it and help it form the new universe through its mind. (That happens to be you, in the game.) When the Eye detects that the end of the current universe is near, it starts emitting its signal and attracting attention - because it needs someone to enter it. But now, since the Owldeer blocked the signal, nobody is receiving it and if nobody enters the Eye, the universe dies and that's it...no more universe, no more existence. The Prisoner realizes this, he unblocks the signal for a short while, the Nomai get it and set off on a mission that ultimately makes it possible to create a new universe and continue this cycle of existence. That's why he's a "good guy" :)

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by SMJSMOK:

At the beginning, the Owldeer revered the Eye just like the Nomai did. But then, someone among them figured out what "firing of" the Eye actually does (i.e. it obliterates everything in the current universe while creating a new one - it's basically a reset button of the universe) and they got afraid, they didn't want their culture to end.

That's what they think - but I'm still sticking to my belief that the eye doesn't destroy the universe. When you enter it, it appears more that you're "outside of time" watching the universe end (which would fit with the quantum moon behavior) rather than causing it to happen.

I'm also not sold that the eye needs a conscious being, just that having one contributes to the new universe, but I'm less clear there.

[Cute Tea Goat]

It's because of the quantum nature of it. It contains infinite possibilities, but someone has to observe it to collapse those possibilities into one solid idea.

[Fred]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Originally posted by SMJSMOK:

At the beginning, the Owldeer revered the Eye just like the Nomai did. But then, someone among them figured out what "firing of" the Eye actually does (i.e. it obliterates everything in the current universe while creating a new one - it's basically a reset button of the universe) and they got afraid, they didn't want their culture to end.

That's what they think - but I'm still sticking to my belief that the eye doesn't destroy the universe. When you enter it, it appears more that you're "outside of time" watching the universe end (which would fit with the quantum moon behavior) rather than causing it to happen.

I'm also not sold that the eye needs a conscious being, just that having one contributes to the new universe, but I'm less clear there.

But it does need someone, that's implied quite excplicitly. Without a conscious being to witness it (i.e. interfer with the process), the Eye will constantly "shuffle" through infinite possibilities without being able to collapse into one final state.
You should search for the "observer effect" if you want more informations on that quantum principle.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Fredowz:

But it does need someone, that's implied quite excplicitly. Without a conscious being to witness it (i.e. interfer with the process), the Eye will constantly "shuffle" through infinite possibilities without being able to collapse into one final state.
You should search for the "observer effect" if you want more informations on that quantum principle.

Oh, no I'm aware of quantum mechanics (well, somewhat) - I was just assuming that the universe was undergoing a big crunch and a new big bang independently of the eye, and that the eye was just passing on something along the way to the new universe. It seems more hopeful this way.

Also the whole conscious observer idea in quantum mechanics is a bit disputable anyway - my general understanding (disclaimer: not actually a physicist) is that we can make probabilistic predictions using quantum mechanics, but it's all so weird that the question of what it really means is a bit in dispute.

Not that that really matters for the game's interpretation anyway, since it's clearly a bit different than in our universe.

[Aragon]

Originally posted by lieutenantkirtar:

Recommend beating the main game again now that you have finished the DLC, there is someone new to talk to.

Thanks. I didn't know about this. I just finished the main game again and that new dialog is very interesting.

-----------------------------------------------

By the way, thanks all of you guys.
I've been reading all your replies and it's really interesting to see so many ideas.
Nice to see how great the Outer Wilds's community is.

[Frozenstep]

I'll throw in my opinion too, just cause.

We don't really know what the prisoner's reasoning for releasing the signal was, whether they knew about the eye of the universe leading to rebirth or anything like that.

But hiding something like the eye of the universe and then just entering sleep forever was irresponsible. If they didn't really know about the eye of the universe, they probably should have tried to study it some more. If they did know more about it, they should have stayed awake to watch over it. Perhaps the prisoner realized that.

[SMJSMOK]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

Also the whole conscious observer idea in quantum mechanics is a bit disputable anyway - my general understanding (disclaimer: not actually a physicist) is that we can make probabilistic predictions using quantum mechanics, but it's all so weird that the question of what it really means is a bit in dispute.

Yeah but this applies to real world quantum mechanics. The lore of Outer Wilds kind of makes its own laws of physics that are somewhat inspired by real world laws, but they're still sci-fi. In the real world, we currently study quantum effects on very small subatomic particles, because getting them into superposition is doable. We can't do that with large objects like rocks or planets, obviously, and we don't really know what would happen then. And as you said, it isn't entirely clear how the entire observer effect works, there are many theories trying to explain that.

In the game, the "laws" of quantum mechanics work the way that all "quantum things" (all the pieces of rock, the moon, the Eye) are in superposition until some sentient being observes them and collapses the possibilities into just one. This is obviously a giant simplification - it's a plot device and a fun game mechanic and I don't think it needs to be dissected any further. (For example, you could ask why the observations of other Venturers don't have any effect on this etc.)

[windblade]

Outer Wilds is, at it's core, a story about accepting death. The owls are an interesting addition, and the bad guys, because they didn't accept death.

This is all a bit of speculation on my part, but I think they understood the Eye's purpose perfectly. They worshiped the Eye, and sacrificed their home planet just to get closer to it, but when they analyzed the Eye and discovered it's true purpose wasn't to save them, but to replace them when the universe ended as a cycle of rebirth, they felt angry and betrayed. I think they, somewhat irrationally, tried to stop the cycle entirely by blocking the Eye's signal. That wouldn't have saved them, but they seemingly hated the Eye's cycle for dooming them.

[Iris Fulgur]

Originally posted by windblade:

Outer Wilds is, at it's core, a story about accepting death. The owls are an interesting addition, and the bad guys, because they didn't accept death.

This is all a bit of speculation on my part, but I think they understood the Eye's purpose perfectly. They worshiped the Eye, and sacrificed their home planet just to get closer to it, but when they analyzed the Eye and discovered it's true purpose wasn't to save them, but to replace them when the universe ended as a cycle of rebirth, they felt angry and betrayed. I think they, somewhat irrationally, tried to stop the cycle entirely by blocking the Eye's signal. That wouldn't have saved them, but they seemingly hated the Eye's cycle for dooming them.

This was pretty much my same takeaway. It also explains why they created the virtual world. I don't know if they intended to make a virtual world they could live in after death, as the reel makes it seem more like a bug than a feature, but it probably didn't hurt to find a way to effectively outlive their mortal bodies.

At the very least, having a game all about uncovering culture and history around you, then adding a race actively opposed to sharing their knowledge, even going so far as hiding the Eye, cloaking their ship, and effectively book burning, makes them natural antagonists in the game. Whether or not they're villainous isn't the point. The point is they act as foils to the Nomai, a very open, curious, and legacy driven race. Strangers, on the other hand, appear very closed-minded, seclusive, and secretive. It's why The Prisoner is the one to be considered a friend to you among all the other Strangers. It was through their actions that Nomai were brought to the solar system which, in turn, allowed Hearthians a jump-start in space travel, eventually leading to the journey to and activation of the Eye through their combined efforts. The prisoner even explains themselves a bit more in the end:
"When my kind found the Eye and realized what it was capable of, they were terrified. It was too difficult a truth. Like a light too bright to look upon directly, it burned them.
What they could not unlearn was hidden away in darkness — obfuscated, then lost. They did not want to see their story end.
My kind weren’t always like this. We weren’t always so afraid. I did what I could to set things right, yet I am still of my kind, and you know now what they did. ... My role in this ended long ago, and now I’ve learned my efforts weren’t in vain. Thank you for facing what was hidden in the dark."