Scopes do not converge, difficult to aim with both eyes open

[Chaika]

When looking through a magnified sight with both eyes open, it should be possible to see the crosshair and magnified view of the scope juxtaposed against the unmagnified view and have both viewpoints align. In other implementations of scopes in VR games like Pavlov VR or Zero Caliber (as well as in reality), I'm able to aim with both eyes open and see the crosshair superimposed over what I'm looking at. In Sniper Elite VR, I'm sad to say this isn't the case. The magnified view of the scope shows where your gun is pointing at instead where your eyes are pointing so your two eye views do not converge.

I think this is a critical gameplay issue for me, as personally I find it much more enjoyable to aim with both eyes open. It's much easier, more comfortable, more authentic, and more fun. I'm hoping that this is something that Rebellion might be able to patch in as an option, as it would make the game instantly more playable and enjoyable, by more people.

[cercata]

Originally posted by Chaika:

In Sniper Elite VR, I'm sad to say this isn't the case. The magnified view of the scope shows where your gun is pointing at instead where your eyes are pointing

Yo are telling me that IRL the scopes don't point where the gun is pointing ? You don't have to aim with the rifle, just look at the target ? What a Joke.

I find the scopes are very well donde in this game.

If you want a more arcadey scope, then ask it politely instead off telling bull_shit.

[Chaika]

If you've ever used a scope IRL, the magnified view is only visible when your eye is correctly aligned and the view will converge with your vision. You can point at something, look through the scope with both eyes open, and see both magnified and unmagnified views simultaneously. If your eye is off-axis, you won't be able to see through the scope shadow.

In Sniper Elite VR, this is not the case. You can see through the scope even if you aren't aligned, which I can understand as an arcade-y concession to VR, but that means the magnified view isn't properly aligned with your eye. Looking with both eyes, you'll see an off-axis magnified view that doesn't converge with what your perspective should be. This is unrealistic, more disorientating, and harder to use.

You can boot up Pavlov for a minute, pick up a scoped weapon, aim with both eyes open, and compare to Sniper Elite VR. While not perfect, Pavlov's implementation of magnified sights is a far better experience.

[cercata]

It seems we are speaking of different games, if I'm not aligned, I don't see anything in the scope of this game. I'm playing the Rift Store version, but even on PSVR is like that.

Are you playing on Quest standalone ?

[Tommy_Rebellion]

Originally posted by Chaika:

When looking through a magnified sight with both eyes open, it should be possible to see the crosshair and magnified view of the scope juxtaposed against the unmagnified view and have both viewpoints align. In other implementations of scopes in VR games like Pavlov VR or Zero Caliber (as well as in reality), I'm able to aim with both eyes open and see the crosshair superimposed over what I'm looking at. In Sniper Elite VR, I'm sad to say this isn't the case. The magnified view of the scope shows where your gun is pointing at instead where your eyes are pointing so your two eye views do not converge.

I think this is a critical gameplay issue for me, as personally I find it much more enjoyable to aim with both eyes open. It's much easier, more comfortable, more authentic, and more fun. I'm hoping that this is something that Rebellion might be able to patch in as an option, as it would make the game instantly more playable and enjoyable, by more people.

We appreciate the feedback.

[Chaika]

Originally posted by cercata:

It seems we are speaking of different games, if I'm not aligned, I don't see anything in the scope of this game. I'm playing the Rift Store version, but even on PSVR is like that.

Are you playing on Quest standalone ?

No, I'm talking about the Steam VR version. I'm playing on Index.
I'm not an expert on scopes or graphics, so bear with me on what might be a confusing explanation.

The way the scopes in the game currently seem to work is that they act a bit like a camera mounted to the gun and the scope is like looking at the video feed. There is a scope shadow masking it a bit at extreme angles, but it is far too large. The result is that when you're looking through the scope, it's possible to move the gun around while being able to see through the scope without it being aligned to where your eyes are looking. For example, you can stand close to an object with one eye closed and use your scope to look behind the object. This doesn't make any physical sense.

In reality, when you're looking through a telescopic scope, you're focusing the light going into the scope to a point where you're putting your eye to see the magnified image. What you're seeing is the magnified image of what you're normally seeing from your eye. A scope can't bend light to show you what is behind an object occluding your normal vision.

This sounds pedantic, but it has big ramifications on how you can actually use scopes. If you look through a scope in Sniper Elite VR with both eyes open, the magnified image will not converge what you're seeing out of your other eye because the scope is producing an image from a different angle. This makes target acquisition much less intuitive.

I'm not asking the developers to recreate the physics of actual optics. But I think there are ways to fake this effect in computer games because other VR games do this. I think what Pavlov VR does is render the scope view from the player's eye instead of the gun, which isn't perfectly realistic, but represents telescopic sights much better. Maybe it's possible that this could be fixed in Sniper Elite VR by simply increasing the size of the scope shadow until it's not possible to see through it unless you're much closer to viewing on-axis. I'm not sure.

Originally posted by Tommy_Rebellion:

We appreciate the feedback.

Thank you, I'm really hoping that this is a small ask.

[KVG88]

Did you try turning the comfort scope on? I only started sniping with two eyes open today, but I noticed a converging effect that I wasnt expecting and found to be extremely helpful with lining up my shots. Playing on Quest 2.

[Chaika]

Originally posted by KVG88:

Did you try turning the comfort scope on? I only started sniping with two eyes open today, but I noticed a converging effect that I wasnt expecting and found to be extremely helpful with lining up my shots. Playing on Quest 2.

I had not tried the Comfort Scope setting, so I booted up the game and gave it a whirl. Unfortunately, it does the opposite of what I was hoping for and does not fix the convergence problem. What the Comfort Scope does is remove the scope shadow mask entirely, which turns your scope into an actual video camera. It lets you look through the scope at severe angles which exacerbates the issue of trying to align the scope with the angle of your eye.

If there was a setting below Comfort Scope: Off where the scope shadow was further increased in size to where it must be aligned with your viewing angle in order to see through the scope, I think that might be (ironically) much more comfortable for both-eyes-open aiming.

[cercata]

After your long explanation I think I understand ...

I think it's related to another issue, when you shoot behind cover, sometimes you see the target with your eye, but not in the scope, you have to come closer to cover, or go higger.

[Chaika]

Originally posted by cercata:

After your long explanation I think I understand ...

I think it's related to another issue, when you shoot behind cover, sometimes you see the target with your eye, but not in the scope, you have to come closer to cover, or go higger.

It's a long-winded explanation but it's easier to experience. I hope this gets some developer attention. It might be as simple a fix as changing some numeric value to make the scope shadow angle more aggressive, even as an optional setting.

[BeerDone]

Originally posted by Chaika:

I'm not an expert on scopes or graphics, so bear with me on what might be a confusing explanation.

You summed it up really well, actually. I've seen quite a few VR games simply slap a viewport on the scope without doing any proper "perspective" work, but I can forgive that for a Serious Sam title, sad to see a SNIPING experience forgo such efforts. I'm sure if an indie dev making physics simulated sandboxes can do scopes justice - so can Rebellion's VR team.

Originally posted by Chaika:

I think what Pavlov VR does is render the scope view from the player's eye instead of the gun, which isn't perfectly realistic, but represents telescopic sights much better.

You know what, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why Pavlov's scope feels so different to things like Onward or H3, but I think you nailed it! Thank you!


In dev's defense, though - I can see how properly obscuring scope view from any angle other than directly forwards would confuse newcomers to VR in general, and firearms in particular. It's not the easiest concept to wrap your head around, and people without prior understanding end up closing their other eye for scoping anyways.
I've grown to appreciate keeping both eyes open, though, so I hope it gets implemented at some point.
Currently rolling over forums to check how many launch issues and concerns will be addressed, hopefully it's a title worth picking up someday!

[Chaika]

Originally posted by BeerDone:

In dev's defense, though - I can see how properly obscuring scope view from any angle other than directly forwards would confuse newcomers to VR in general, and firearms in particular. It's not the easiest concept to wrap your head around, and people without prior understanding end up closing their other eye for scoping anyways.

I can understand why they'd come to that conclusion, which is why I'm glad that they implemented a Comfort Scope option which completely removes the scope shadow so that you can view through the scope at basically any angle. It doesn't make any physical sense, but I'm not precious about realism, and if it some people prefer playing that way, it's a great that they have the option.

However, that leaves the opposite case for people like me. I find both-eyes-open aiming much more comfortable, which is what a more strict representation of scope shadow enables. I think it's one of the key advantages of VR as a medium, one of those real "wow" moments that really impresses on people just what you can accomplish in a VR video game. After all stereoscopy is a key part of it. The moment when you realize that the image through your scope and your off eye converge and you can actually still aim using the crosshair while focusing on either eye is magical. It was a real bummer to find out that Sniper Elite VR didn't offer this experience.

[X_X]

I didn't initially think about convergence with aiming the rifles in SEVR because I tend to close one eye but I see how some players would be bothered by the way the scopes work in the game. The more I read Chaika's description of the issue the more it seems like what they propose is the best way to handle the scope view so players who keep both eyes open won't have problems.

If the player could choose to have a smaller view 'hole' in the scope shadow or if the view was actually just rendered from the player's eye point that should get rid of the weird 'video camera scope' effect. Players who keep both eyes open could then use the rifle in the way that makes sense to them.

[Chaika]

Originally posted by thetrakynia:

If the player could choose to have a smaller view 'hole' in the scope shadow or if the view was actually just rendered from the player's eye point that should get rid of the weird 'video camera scope' effect. Players who keep both eyes open could then use the rifle in the way that makes sense to them.

I really hope it's that easy since they already have a setting that affects the scope shadow. I have to imagine that the hard work is already done since I'm assuming the scope shadow is centered around the correct angle so there shouldn't be a need to do any more math than the game is already doing.

[M4ROO]

I'm not the anglosphere, so It's hard to read all comments. but I agree your opinion.
Before I read your post, I thought Does this happen only to me?
I prepared to post and share the problem yesterday.

check this video.
https://youtu.be/uEWf6hjXBas


I have Quest 2 and Pimax so I played all version of SniperElite VR except PSVR.
I get refund cuz of hand alignment and difficulty of both eyes open aiming(in steam). And I heard Oculus version doesn't have the problem, so I bought the game in Oculus. but the problem also are there.

recent hotfix has the hand alignment, so I hope the DEV to fix both eye open problem too.

[Chaika]

Originally posted by M4ROO:

I'm not the anglosphere, so It's hard to read all comments. but I agree your opinion.
Before I read your post, I thought Does this happen only to me?
I prepared to post and share the problem yesterday.

check this video.
https://youtu.be/uEWf6hjXBas

Thank you so much for making a video about this, it explains the issue so much more clearly and succinctly than I could. Hopefully one of the developers watches it.