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討論區規矩與守則
3 
檢舉此篇文章
The total seems to sit around $1,148,411 from the official website. Who knows if that is truly accurate.
However let's go with your $550k left then. That's an additional $134k minimum that raised outside of PayPal. Assuming fees I'll be generous and say half of that number being at least $65-70k could have been added to the $550k you had left to develop giving you well over $600-620k.
So again, where did that money go off to? There hasn't been a single update that has shown any concrete or definitive concept to life to show "Oh yeah this is where it went to" outside of already established art and some music tracks and 1-2 vertical slices. There is no way that equated to all of the $600+ being gone.
Let's just ignore the financial aspect for the time being. You will never admit the true funds usage until after the legality of it is settled.
How about these questions?
1) Why is it Hiro didn't fully disclose his involvement in PP when he made an update urging backers to support it on KS? Do you not find that to be a conflict of interest and trust not to divulge? If not, why?
2) How is it alright to reveal your financial records to 3rd party entities and press to prove your claims but for legality reasons you cannot reveal them to the public due to what could be discovered in them that could lead to potential legal ramifications (I.E. sue)?
This was a point established in the thread on the main page of the steam page.
3) Do you not see the incompetence of having a project "need" another project to sell X amount of copies for the POSSIBILTY of said project to come back? Every interview I've read has given off the impression through choice word play that even with the amount it's still not a certainty PP would come back if say you sold $100k or $150k?
Hi Masao, thank you for your concern.
I'd love to issue a refund myself, but with the funds used on actual development of Project Phoenix on thousands of assets that we've shown through updates, we don't have any to refund. Although one can blame my incompetence on handling the project, by all means, we didn't spend these funds to waste the project.
Also, please keep comments relevant to the thread, which is in relation to our defensive statement of accusation of funds that was supposed to be used for Project Phoenix used instead for TINY METAL.
Thank you,
Hiroaki Yura
We are not hiding numbers nor are we fudging any numbers. Could you please explain why you are confident enough that I might be fudging anything to accuse me of such?
Please read the backer update I linked earlier, within the second paragraph of the numbers section it says "between Paypal and Kickstarter" as well in my earlier post I wrote "kickstarter + paypal raised 1.14Million USD" so to answer your question: yes the numbers I said already included PayPal.
Please do not double-count PayPal and then accuse me of fudging numbers when my numbers do not match the numbers you calculated after double-counting money.
1. I am not sure why you think Hiro promoting a kickstarter meant to save Project Phoenix is a conflict of interest to post to the Project Phoenix kickstater.
2. We consulted with our lawyer.
3. Yes, if TINY METAL cannot succeed then there will not be any extra budget to make Project Phoenix.
So if you will excuse me now, I would like to get back to working on improving TINY METAL so we have a chance to save Project Phoenix. Please do not call me incompetent for trying to save the kickstarter.
Daniel
Not once have you guys given a clear answer on to what the remaining money was used on. What was it used on? What can you provide that gives us a tangible weight to what was the remainder of that money spent on? But whatever, like I said you won't reveal it until the legality of it is settled anyway. To answer your other points.
1) How is it a conflict of interest? Are you really suggesting the way in which he promoted the project in a update is in no way a conflict of interest? He never revealed his involvement in the project and wanted unsuspecting PP backers to back this project simple as "help" for a friend's project.
2) So again the lawyers concluded it's acceptable to reveal this information to 3rd party sources but not to the backers, investors of PP? At what point would these news sites owe any favors not to release this information? Am I under the assumption NDAs were signed by them?
3) The fact TM has to succeed in the first place for another project that was funded through Kickstarter to live is a disgrace. Yes I would definitely want it to succeed but you guys are fooling yourselves with how you handled PP to think this isn't a long standing issue for potential buyers.
Like I said, you guys can keep deflecting all you want. It's your job to PR it as well as you can. However, the truth is going to come out eventually and either it's what the allegations claim OR it's just mass amount of incompetence for every aspect of the team.
Two years ago I joined CIA to help Project Phoenix, at the time the backers welcomed me and I told everyone I would work to help save the project but that there was a lot of work needed. After my efforts of those 2 years many backers are just insulting me and my work. Accusing me of things which have no evidence in reality.
Was it a mistake for me to try to save Project Phoenix?
Daniel
We have several facts we can see right now
1 - you guys get more than 10 time the money require for PP kickstarter --> 1 milllion , around 550 k for development
2 - PP development stop for , at least , 3 years after 2014
3 - PP offcial site accept Pledge for that game right now
4 - Tiny metal Kick stater fail miserably , under 50 k
5 - Suddently , you stop working on PP for TM , it seems you get some $$ from third party investers
6 - All the stuff PP backers get are some art work , music in progress and a video about first alpha of the game .
7 - I know video game cost a lot but how the crap you guys burns so much money for few results.
9 - If tiny metal sell over 150 k units, PP could be start in development again
How can we trust you on this while we have so many kickstarter that get so much result for far less $.
Because you guys stop working on pp without real justification , rumour about embezzlement begin to surge away. The best you can do is hiding behind japanese law and dodging questions.
in conclusion , As a backer PP , is it more easier to listen to you or the people that did some reseach and come to conclusion you guys are doing embezzlement from PP Backers money to Tiny metal. I would like to point out PP backers have no new since 15 novembre 2017 and most comment on that page kickstarter are full of deception and frustration. And of course, other guy just confirme pp backer will have no refund so... To end this in beauty , you guys most laugh away from all those tears.
How can we trust Area 35 and everyone in while you guys can't even close PP Pledge page on your official site .
I dont think we have ever hid from the reason development stopped on Project Phoenix. By the time I joined there was 0 development funds left to pay my salary at that point. The money was spent on art assets and concept, hence why the Project Phoenix updates included art and concept art. The programmer before me who had promised to work on the project on a royalty basis never joined, then Hiro made a post to the kickstarter asking for programmers. It was from that kickstarter post that I met Hiro.
> is it more easier to listen to you or the people that did some reseach and come to conclusion you guys are doing embezzlement from PP Backers money to Tiny metal.
What research? I lived through the development of TINY METAL. I know for sure that in this universe TINY METAL was funded through external investors (who I am thankful to since it was their funding which paid by salary). If you have research pointing to differently then I would very much like to see it.
> I would like to point out PP backers have no new since 15 novembre 2017 and most comment on that page kickstarter are full of deception and frustration.
What kind of update would you like to see? You appear to be unhappy that I worked 2 years to create this opportunity to save Project Pheonix. Instead of getting thanks from my fellow backers I now need to defend myself and my work from false accusations from the same people I was trying to help.
I worked hard for months with zero pay.
Now some PP backers are claiming that actually I got paid and that it was stolen money! I guess they must have hacked my bank account and think they know more than my bank does. Because my bank thought I received zero money. Could you please share your "research" with me where it shows I received this PP money, I would really like to get it since in this reality I received 0 dollars from PP.
Daniel
So Freddy: Tell me what brings you to asume that Daniel got deluded? I'm pretty sure you didn't think it through before you commented.
Let me rephrase it a bit. What would Area35 gain by deluding Daniel? He, who worked for months without payment and is their sole programmer on the TinyMetal team.
They would gain nothing. Because if he would have found out that he worked for free, even if they could have paid his salary (with always said money from PP KS), he would pretty sure go. And then they would have no programmer for a while, what would throw them back even further, while still using up that always said money, because they are still employees and need money for living expenses.
So your assumption that Area35 is deluding Daniel is extremly unlikely.
Also for the fact that they would burn money away only for giving Daniel fake documents, who state that there is no money (and this is not just one paper they need to fake) its unlikely.
And the other way around, why would Daniel lie? Why would a person lie about that he received no money for his work? That is honorable work that he made there.
And if someone lies about honorable work that he didn't made in that honorable way, the trust in that person would drasticly sink if the lie comes out.
So the possibility that Daniel just lied to us in that post before is extremly slim as well. Because he did show results with his honorable honest work.
We have TinyMetal before us.
We can play TinyMetal.
There is a game that we can play because of his honorable and honest work.
And I tell you this. A Game can tell you more stuff about the work the programmer(s) put into it, then they themself.
That's it from me. Maybe I put more oil in the fire with that, but also the opposite is possible. I just had to do it, becasue it really annoyed me, how some of you treat the people of Area35.
Btw. Closing this thread would help nothing, because it would only give people like you a reason more to hassle them.
"... he also sent it directly to Polygon"---
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/28/16803348/tiny-metal-kickstarter-project-phoenix-controversy
There Polygon explicitly admits to publish unsubstantiated claims and allegations by Tariq Lacy, tarnishing the reputation and image of Tiny Metal, its developers and publishers and ultimately hurting sales of the game. I myself became wary of the game then, after reading such news especially given the unflattering history and stories with many infamous kickstarters campaigns throughout the years, so I refrained from buying it at the time, even while being a HUGE Advance Wars fan, but now, after knowing that a gutter trash, Goebbelsian outlet like Polygon/Vox was behind this campaign along with Tariq, from the start, I will support you and buy the game just for that alone.
Go all in! Just like Hogan vs. Gawker, the truth is behind you. Polygon, Vox Media, Gawker and the like. Caimanes del mismo pozo / Gators of the same swamp, cesspool, like we say in my country.
as long as this http://projectphoenix.info/pledge/ is still up . it's impossible to trust you or anyone from area 35
yep i pledge 5 k into the game , im pretty sure it will be done soon ! my hope are up right now
You should stop there.
Être constructif aide dans la vie.
As for the overuse of the term "facts", it shows how much "investigation" was put in there.
You have all the rights to be salty about everything, doesn't mean you can just use "facts"
as a to-go word. Language is a thing, shouting it for the sake of it is another.
@Pappagiorgo
Indeed.
This whole clickbaity-way to use anything to make "everything but" on Youtube, social
media and website(sic) like Kotaku (hello J.Schreier) or Polygon (Kotaku's lil' brother)
just show how much people love drama and pushing narratives/agendas without even
trying to understand what's going on between the lines... Nothing new here, sadly.
That's why being on the front since day one could help alleviate the problems, and kill
them before they blow out of proportion.
@Daniel
Man... I wish you would have been here from the start of PP, frankly. Pretty sure that some
good Skype/IRC discussions could have been a thing at the time, "Danieru".
It CAN still be a thing.
But hey, TINY METAL, right? Right.
Many big titles are coming out this year, with the "military" theme as part of them.
Big ones like Valkyria Chronicle 4. Even if the genre isn't the same, that's still
a big amount of contenders out in the field soon, covering in shadows tiny projects.
Hopefully, you can work out the AI in time. And multiplayer. And still have fingers.
So much stuff happened since the start of "Super Battlelands" (or even GoGo Wars! =P)
Not talking budget of course, but it would be interesting to see how far you can go with
the formula on TINY METAL.
//offtopic
@Hiroaki Yura
I totally can understand why it's so easy to see Torches & Pitchforks™ style rants over
TINY METAL (and Project Phoenix by extension, see Captain Obvious comments above).
Managing communication is always difficult, even more in times of crisis.
But even if I more or less categorize PP's exercise of communication as a "No Man's Sky 1.0"
way of doing it (frequent radio silences, omitting info here and there for long period of
time, not staying in touch with its players much... yadda yadda), at least they still got
the money to turn it around, with even paying guys doing ARG in place of ads... Why not.
So, of course PP isn't really in a dream state nor place like them, still.
Can't be more sad about it, as you obviously are, Yura-san. If Sony could already decide
to put money on the table, it would be marvelous to see the project "rising from its ashes".
With a title like "Project Phoenix", it is just an obligatory thing to happen.
And to echo this with what I've said not so long ago to others over the KS comments' page,
in the case it wasn't already clear:
|"You screwed up hard, that's a given. As of today the situation is again on hold,
till something miraculous can happen. Myself, I can't really be still as supportive
as I was at the start. Heck, when there was still chance to communicate frankly with
the backers for damage control, silence was the choice made. A choice that let go many
of "us".
Your decisions? I wasn't really fond of them. You're not the only one having a project
passing years before seeing the light of completion. You were more prone to it, by lack
of experience, obviously. ( https://youtu.be/28nUYFoCQwQ )
But don't ever consider letting this go.
Whatever happens, keep you head up. Go forward.
Because you have to go to the end of this thing. It's a harsh time, but like us being
only able to "wait" with frustration, you'll have to deal with whatever problems coming
in front of you, your family and the team. You started it, you finish it.
And again... Communication is the key.
Backers don't want to know "everything".
We know that some stuff can't be speaked about clearly and all.
But that's it. All the rest? Just let it flow to us.
Remember, you're in a relationship with the backers since a few years back now.
Don't ever forget that, Hiroaki-san."|
It's more a tap on the back than anything at this point, but you get the idea.
Seeing as crazy things can happen over and over to some Kickstarter projects (hi, A.Mauer),
if everything is told in one way or another as soon and accurately as possible, you can't
really be pushed over as much as it was done here. So hey, 2018! Start anew!!
Try talking a bit here and there, over the Kickstarter news' page, twitter, PP's own
website and FORUMS (you know, the one lacking the most... It's freezing cold in there).
You have places you can be, even if just a little from time to time.
Many topics to talk about, just stay in touch.
It's hard and peoplle will be harsh as always, but if you really want PP to exist, stay
focused and go into the battlefield. If you survive, then your scars will become just
reminders for the next battles to come.
//offtopic²
I see that you're doing a little bit more (never enough but, hey!) efforts over TINY METAL
this time, and with a motivated creature like Daniel on board, that's already a good start.
Hope to know more about the case in a pretty near future. I know Japanese justice can be slow
as hell, but I guess we can only wait it out. In the meantime, try contacting Leonard French,
just to see if he can help in any way. I'm pretty sure he would be interested to do that.
( https://www.youtube.com/user/ljfrench009/about )
Everybody's watching you, guys. Also, whip Gontaro a bit more to illustrate your way out!
(if there isn't 80% of Gontaro's in PP's artbook, people will take action~)
stop what ?? will you pledge the game despite all this on their official site ??? how is that acceptable they allow this ???
saying im salty is a middle finger to 15 k backers. you are really selfish here