So about the character of Lara

[Zug Zug]

She triggers the apocalypse, she refuses to admit that she did, she sees a little boy die while crying for his mother to save him, because of her, she then not even 10 sec later after meeting her friend start to go on about how trinity took the dagger from her and how bad guy they are because they want to find the box and do something about all the bad in the world.

Everyone around her is dying because of what she did, and she is more worried about the dagger.

Moreover seemingly having already forgot about the kid, she doesn't tell her friend that SHE IS the cause of all of this she doesn't care about all the people dying and is simply and purely is obsessed about how they are ruining what her father has been working on for years.
At some point during the cinematic even Jonah is done with her ♥♥♥♥.

there is also another 2 or more ? parts in the start when Jonah is worried about her legs when she just brushes off the question by talking about the expeditions, there is also an instance when she refuses to eat as she would rather talk and focus about/on the riddle.

Compared to previous games Lara seems less, no she doesn't care at all, stealth attacks are just violant executions, she doesn't strangle them anymore or disable them she just thrust a knife in their throats and goes on about her day like an absolute butcher.

Lara doesn't have any sort of empathy whatsoever if anything, just ''sometimes'' guilt ? for what she did and even then she is in denial or simply ignores it.

that's all, in this sequel the devs confirm what I've been thinking by playing tbr and rise, that Lara is well...like that
a complete psychopathic father's pride obsessed butcher.

[Sam]

It's a game, not a person.
She's make believe.

[Zug Zug]

Originally posted by Sam:

It's a game, not a person.
She's make believe.

what are you even on about, I know it's not a real person

this whole game's story isn't real either it's just fiction we shouldn't debate about it too ?

[Oseltamivir]

Yeah, so I don't get why the replies on this are so derisive? It's called character analysis. We can talk about fictional characters. It's a thing.

Anyway I just started the game and her lack of empathy at the start caught me by surprise. I think she's meant to be that way now. A lot of in-game documents imply her to be obsessively hostile. It gives her a 'morally ambiguous' vibe I suppose.

[Zug Zug]

Originally posted by Oseltamivir:

Yeah, so I don't get why the replies on this are so derisive? It's called character analysis. We can talk about fictional characters. It's a thing.

Anyway I just started the game and her lack of empathy at the start caught me by surprise. I think she's meant to be that way now. A lot of in-game documents imply her to be obsessively hostile. It gives her a 'morally ambiguous' vibe I suppose.

I personally love it, It makes her more unique compared to other MC in other work of fiction

[Falconicx]

Originally posted by Physical manifestation of cancer:

She triggers the apocalypse, she refuses to admit that she did, she sees a little boy die while crying for his mother to save him, because of her, she then not even 10 sec later after meeting her friend start to go on about how trinity took the dagger from her and how bad guy they are because they want to find the box and do something about all the bad in the world.

Everyone around her is dying because of what she did, and she is more worried about the dagger.

Moreover seemingly having already forgot about the kid, she doesn't tell her friend that SHE IS the cause of all of this she doesn't care about all the people dying and is simply and purely is obsessed about how they are ruining what her father has been working on for years.
At some point during the cinematic even Jonah is done with her ♥♥♥♥.

there is also another 2 or more ? parts in the start when Jonah is worried about her legs when she just brushes off the question by talking about the expeditions, there is also an instance when she refuses to eat as she would rather talk and focus about/on the riddle.

Compared to previous games Lara seems less, no she doesn't care at all, stealth attacks are just violant executions, she doesn't strangle them anymore or disable them she just thrust a knife in their throats and goes on about her day like an absolute butcher.

Lara doesn't have any sort of empathy whatsoever if anything, just ''sometimes'' guilt ? for what she did and even then she is in denial or simply ignores it.

that's all, in this sequel the devs confirm what I've been thinking by playing tbr and rise, that Lara is well...like that
a complete psychopathic father's pride obsessed butcher.

Its funny because I agree with you, on many part. Ever since I finished tomb raider 2013 like 4 days ago or something which was also my first playthrough of the game, haven only playing Rise and Shadow one time before, I gotta say I dont agree with her becoming a psychopath, but her lack of empathy and showing remorse definitely gradully declines over the two sequals (where she would blame herself and feel pity for friends and innocents that she puts to harm). I mean shes brutal in 2013, but thats because of pure survival instinct, the will to do terrible things to survive. That said....one important distinction to remember that separetes these games and her character development from each game is that Lara realises more and more that her childhood memories and ideas of what is means to go on treasurehunts and looking for hidden/forgotten secrets around the world in different countries and cultures doesnt work as peacefully as she first thought, alot of that is of course due to the main antaganist Trinity. She will not just encounter problems related to solving the mysteries, but also fighting against others that want to achieve the same goal, but through other less civiliced means. I just finished Rise a second time and I think its gem that concludes that the Lara that started out in 2013 is not the same Lara going forward after Rise of Tomb Raider. She acknowledges that other people are willing to hurt her and those closest to her in order to achieve the same goal and that in order for her to survive she has no choice than to do the same against them when the situation calls for it. THAT SAID....I think the main reason for this kill-rampage moments in Rise and Shadow (which I dont enjoy, I love the sneaking and stealth, but I hate the open combat) is because of the story. The story in 2013 makes most sense to our reality and makes totally sense for the characters reactions and choices whereas in Rise and Shadow the story is so far off reality and into fantasy almost that the plot becomes somewhat ridiculous. The plot in Rise is better by far than in Shadow where the plot is easily the weakest link. But the point is that the story that the devs decided to write is what ultimately made Lara this "Rambo-girl". I played the trilogy backwards (first time I've ever done that in a videogame seires) and guess what, despite the two sequals having superior gameplay features and graphics I personally think the 2013 title is superior and easily the best representation of Lara Croft. If anything I want a 2013 Remastered with modern graphics and added story missions/things to do.

[no1schmo]

Except she does immediately accept responsibility for what she did, and admits it to Jonah literally as soon as she sees him. You're simply wrong there. Yes, she moves on after seeing the kid die because...he's dead, as are countless more people around her, and it would be pointless to just start crying over it, while it could save countless lives to get moving towards finding the box ASAP. Yes, she shrugs off injury and hunger due to her drive, arguably obsession, with finding ancient ruins and honoring her father's memory, and learns how to kill because Trinity keeps giving her no choice, but nothing suggests she's anything but kind and compassionate to regular people. While the plot is obviously unrealistic, duh, her character really isn't; how do you think most soldiers are, especially the special forces with significant kill counts? The most annoying aspect of her character is her constant obsession over her parents, especially her dad; yes, your dad died 15 years ago, I'm sorry, but move on.

[MSzynisz]

In general, I have a huge problem with the 2013 Lara. I understand that the developers wanted to make a full redesign of her: and that's perfectly fine of course. But to me, they changed her looks (making her look more realistic), but at the same time dumbed down her character to the point she's either stupid or very very incompetent. Lara was always an icon of a strong female lead - and yes she was oversexualised, but her character traits were what really made her interesting! But now, she's just a plain uninteresting character that would never be considered an icon if not for the legacy.

And let's examine Lara's main choices that made me really hate her:
1) In TR2013, she's looking for her friend, then she finally finds her together with a very shady figure, and then immediately goes to sleep. For context, up to that point, EVERYONE on the island wanted to kill her, except for her friends. I am seriously surprised she didn't get her throat slit in her sleep! And of course, she wakes up, everyone is gone, her friend kidnapped by the shady figure.
2) Again, in TR2013, she kills a lot of people without even flinching, yet when she has to kill a deer, she's crying. Some people say the amount of people she kills means she's a borderline psycho - I think it's just the consequence of how the gameplay is implemented. There's usually a huge discrepancy between the "cutscene" Lara and the "gameplay" Lara. I think the devs really wanted the "cutscene" Lara to be the true side of her, but then they also wanted to have a gameplay where you shoot thousands of enemies. And well, you can't have both without character inconsistencies all over the place.
3) Yet again, in TR2013, the biggest mystery of the game is revealed in the most on-the-nose way possible. Throughout the game, you can very easily figure out what the mystery is, or at least have a strong suspicion what it is. Yet when the game literally has to show you pictures showcasing that mystery, Lara is sooo very surprised this is the case. Like, seriously Lara, are you even thinking?
4) In the Rise of TR, pretty much same thing happens: they talk about this mysterious sage, you meet some person somewhere, and then the big reveal is that this person is that sage, which you could have figured out the first time you meet that person. Lara is of course surprised as heck.
5) In Shadow of TR, Lara is pretty much responsible for causing the apocalypse, and the game spends a loooong time showcasing all the bad things that happen because of her. Lara is constantly sulking throughout the game: because she caused all of this, because her father killed himself, blah blah blah. Lara, acknowledge what you did, learn from it, and move on!

Bottom line, she's a very weak character, and it feels like the developers don't want to give her character any edge, because oh my gosh what would people say on Twitter? Idk.

Anyway, I still really enjoyed the Shadow of TR as a game. Didn't like the previous installments (2013 and sequel), but this one, in my opinion, captured some spirit of the original TR games, especially the love of exploration and beautifully crafted tombs. My advice would be to just ignore Lara and her ramblings and focus on literally every other aspect of the game.

[Falconicx]

Originally posted by MSzynisz:

In general, I have a huge problem with the 2013 Lara. I understand that the developers wanted to make a full redesign of her: and that's perfectly fine of course. But to me, they changed her looks (making her look more realistic), but at the same time dumbed down her character to the point she's either stupid or very very incompetent. Lara was always an icon of a strong female lead - and yes she was oversexualised, but her character traits were what really made her interesting! But now, she's just a plain uninteresting character that would never be considered an icon if not for the legacy.

And let's examine Lara's main choices that made me really hate her:
1) In TR2013, she's looking for her friend, then she finally finds her together with a very shady figure, and then immediately goes to sleep. For context, up to that point, EVERYONE on the island wanted to kill her, except for her friends. I am seriously surprised she didn't get her throat slit in her sleep! And of course, she wakes up, everyone is gone, her friend kidnapped by the shady figure.
2) Again, in TR2013, she kills a lot of people without even flinching, yet when she has to kill a deer, she's crying. Some people say the amount of people she kills means she's a borderline psycho - I think it's just the consequence of how the gameplay is implemented. There's usually a huge discrepancy between the "cutscene" Lara and the "gameplay" Lara. I think the devs really wanted the "cutscene" Lara to be the true side of her, but then they also wanted to have a gameplay where you shoot thousands of enemies. And well, you can't have both without character inconsistencies all over the place.
3) Yet again, in TR2013, the biggest mystery of the game is revealed in the most on-the-nose way possible. Throughout the game, you can very easily figure out what the mystery is, or at least have a strong suspicion what it is. Yet when the game literally has to show you pictures showcasing that mystery, Lara is sooo very surprised this is the case. Like, seriously Lara, are you even thinking?
4) In the Rise of TR, pretty much same thing happens: they talk about this mysterious sage, you meet some person somewhere, and then the big reveal is that this person is that sage, which you could have figured out the first time you meet that person. Lara is of course surprised as heck.
5) In Shadow of TR, Lara is pretty much responsible for causing the apocalypse, and the game spends a loooong time showcasing all the bad things that happen because of her. Lara is constantly sulking throughout the game: because she caused all of this, because her father killed himself, blah blah blah. Lara, acknowledge what you did, learn from it, and move on!

Bottom line, she's a very weak character, and it feels like the developers don't want to give her character any edge, because oh my gosh what would people say on Twitter? Idk.

Anyway, I still really enjoyed the Shadow of TR as a game. Didn't like the previous installments (2013 and sequel), but this one, in my opinion, captured some spirit of the original TR games, especially the love of exploration and beautifully crafted tombs. My advice would be to just ignore Lara and her ramblings and focus on literally every other aspect of the game.

1) thats called bad writing :)

2) Well said, I still dont understand where people get the psycho from though as she kills because she has no other choice, the player is almost never given a choice to not kill the enemies, its possible but very hard to pull off in some scenarios (imagine how much bigger impact it would be to give the player themselfes the choice of killing the enemies or finding another non-lethal way around which would resolt in up- and downsides to the plot. Thats character development for both Lara and the player). The game was made to be modern actionpacked because the devs didnt believe exploration and a few confrantions alone would be entertaining enough for todays players.

3+4) Again...bad writing :/

5) yup, move on Lara, we are tired of hearing about your daddy issues.

I dont think she's a weak character because there is potential with her, but you can say they went the "safe" route for sure with her personality/traits which is very understandable since they wanted to try out this "new" version of Lara and gameplay to appeal to most likely a new/wider audience. Remember that this trilogy is supposed to be Lara when she's a "teen", or I'm guessing the 18-21 mark. Whatever the new Tomb Raider game will be I hope by then she will be given a more adult look, with like you mentioned a personality with more backbone.

[Extreme]

SPOILERS Lets remember what she survived in 3 games she lost parents, lost almost all friends, lost Roth a father figure for her, survived hell on island in ROTTR there are even hints(debut trailer and recordings in game) that she had PTSD and mental problems after Yamatai, her friends moved away from her(except Jonah) then Ana betrayed her and Lara found out that Ana manipulated her entire time on top of that her father was killed not commited suicide thats alot things that can change a human. In SOTTR she become cold, ruthless and obsessed until Rourke lied her that Jonah is dead i think she understands then that her obsession cause other people pain and death and she was scared af that only friend who stayed with her could die because of her. She is not psycho when she fighting its her survival instincts its basically what Rambo said "When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing." On top of that Lara said something very simmilar in TR2013 and ROTTR

TR2013

Lara: Oh, God! I'm in trouble. They're killing people.

Roth: What? Who?

Lara: Men. I don't know why. I had to kill some of them. I had no choice.

Roth: That can't have been easy.

Lara: It's scary just how easy it was.

ROTTR/Therapy trailer

Lara: I had to take control of the situation... if i didn't the we'd all have to die on that island

Therapist: Did you enjoy taking control?

Lara: You mean killing, dont you? Did i enjoy killing? I did it because i had no choice!

Someone who dont paid attention to story can not noticed this SOTTR also handles great heroine and villain stuff because both Lara and Dominguez are not evil they wanted to do everything right Lara want to learn truth about her father and stop evil organization while Dominguez want to protect Paititi i recommend to watch again that cutscene where Lara and Dominguez argue in San Juan church back to Lara i think she was amazing written as a character(and there is also perfect acting by Camilla Luddington) I really like her and even started to carry about her she is most believable Lara as character so far in my opinion she react like humans she smile, she cry, she joking, she is sad, she have successes and failures and she also kicking ♥♥♥

[Gojo]

Originally posted by MSzynisz:

1) In TR2013, she's looking for her friend, then she finally finds her together with a very shady figure, and then immediately goes to sleep. For context, up to that point, EVERYONE on the island wanted to kill her, except for her friends. I am seriously surprised she didn't get her throat slit in her sleep! And of course, she wakes up, everyone is gone, her friend kidnapped by the shady figure.

The problem with this scene is that a lot of important content was cut after the beta stage, changing the story and pacing. Here is the beta futage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFvpaVwitDc

In my opinion one of the main issues in shadow of the tomb raider is that it tries to portray her differently.... here is a quote from an article I found.

At the end of the day, Lara Croft is a white woman who tracks down riches and artifacts in other people’s homeland, and in 2018, the social consciousness surrounding those kind of adventure stories has shifted greatly. The developers, of course, are mum on the specifics of the emotional arc in “Shadow of the Tomb Raider,” but they did say that by the end of the game, Lara Croft will be “humbled” in some capacity.

source: https://variety.com/2018/gaming/features/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-interview-2-1202846070/

[no1schmo]

The devs wanted to have their cake and eat it too; they wanted to tell a story about how a young woman became hardened by tragedy...but they also wanted Lara to be a nice, sweet, Disney princess. She sort of breaks down...but not really. She's sort of obsessed...but not really. She's sort of a tough-as-nails survivor who will do anything...but not really. They never go far enough to really tell that story, and everytime Lara has an emotional scene, she's over it 5 minutes later. Even her face does this; she has an expression that looks like she's always on the brink of tears, but then she shrugs off being shredded by a jaguar.

[Gojo]

I can't fathom why eidos changed Lara in this way. In my opinion, the beginning of the game should be that Lara tries to prevent trinity from taking the dagger. When she reaches the dagger's room a Trinity member tries to take it, Lara does her best to stop him but she gets shot and presumed as dead. She blames herself for her inability to prevent the catastrophe. In my opinion, something like this fits Lara's character a lot more then what we have here in the game.

I guess having a bad white protagonist, someone that needs to learn their lesson is what present-day keyboard warriors want.

[SilentHorizon]

While yes, Lara seems very hardcore and has a "evil" vibe in Shadow, it all makes sense given her childhood.

Over the course of the past 2 games she's been through stuff far worse than what soliders go thru during war in my opinion. She's lost friends, family and basically is in constant turmoil and constant pain.

Especially if you read the comic books that fill up the voids in-between each of the three games, she's gone thru hell almost literally.

So it should be no surprise that she is the way she is in Shadow, when you're in that much pain, you can't think strait all the time. Hence why some people see her as a villain, how she saw herself as a villain and why she's also seen as a hero almost at the same time. Especially with how greedy she got with the dagger.

Of course this is all my opinion. But from what i've researched and read and seen Lara's behavior makes sense in Shadow. How thing's don't always lineup and how her views can sometimes get clouded.

What I like about Shadow, it shows realism, Lara isn't perfect, she's got issues and strengths.

However don't get me wrong, I think the story writers could have done Lara a bit better in terms of her morality and beliefs, instead of her sometimes being all over the place. But it's still not bad.

However I do hope the next trilogy for the Tomb Raider series shows her mature significantly, and bring a more upbeat and less horrific story.

[no1schmo]

Where is this "evil" vibe in Shadows? She's almost sickeningly nice and gentle.

[FireBoy2221]

Originally posted by Funtom:

Originally posted by MSzynisz:

1) In TR2013, she's looking for her friend, then she finally finds her together with a very shady figure, and then immediately goes to sleep. For context, up to that point, EVERYONE on the island wanted to kill her, except for her friends. I am seriously surprised she didn't get her throat slit in her sleep! And of course, she wakes up, everyone is gone, her friend kidnapped by the shady figure.

The problem with this scene is that a lot of important content was cut after the beta stage, changing the story and pacing. Here is the beta futage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFvpaVwitDc

In my opinion one of the main issues in shadow of the tomb raider is that it tries to portray her differently.... here is a quote from an article I found.

At the end of the day, Lara Croft is a white woman who tracks down riches and artifacts in other people’s homeland, and in 2018, the social consciousness surrounding those kind of adventure stories has shifted greatly. The developers, of course, are mum on the specifics of the emotional arc in “Shadow of the Tomb Raider,” but they did say that by the end of the game, Lara Croft will be “humbled” in some capacity.

source: https://variety.com/2018/gaming/features/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider-interview-2-1202846070/

I wish they would've kept that.