CTHULHU GOT WOKE! - An old-timer's review.

[Beyonder1979]

Old timer here and Lovecraft fan since I was 14 years old. I have almost every Lovecraftian video game ever made. Some of them you haven't even heard of.

I've been waiting for this game for a long time and I had high hopes for it. An open world Lovecraftian game! I pre-ordered it for the PS4 and played it as soon as it was available.

And after getting 100% Trophies and seeing everything the game has to offer, I have this short review for you.

The Good:

- Open World
- Nice Investigation System, similar to last year's Official Call of Cthulhu video game. Also shares similarities with the Evidence Extrapolation System of the Darkness Within games.
- Good Story with many branching/alternate paths and side stories
- Wardrobe function with many character skins/clothes

The Bad:

- Changed names everywhere. For the places as well as for the Old Ones. No Cthulhu here. Just Cthygonaar. No Esoteric Order of Dagon, just Everyone's Obvious Duty...
- Repetitive Gameplay
- Too much combat!
- Only 4 types of enemies, none of them recognizable Lovecraftian creatures from the Mythos!

And the greatest negative of all:

- PURE SOCIO-POLITICAL PROPAGANDA!

This game has it all. LGBT characters, Feminism Posters all over, Innsmouthers are the GOOD guys and they're portrayed as illegal immigrants who are attacked by the KKK, the Order of Dagon is now an Extremist/Terrorist Organization, Trump Reference: a local Politician wants to build a wall around the city, Leftism, anti-fascism, anti-racism, anti-nationalism, open borders, History Revisionism...

This game is pure INDOCTRINATION and is pushing this agenda HARD!

If I had known that it would contain all that, I'd NEVER have bought it! Do NOT make the mistake I made!

To Developers: Please take your POLITICAL AGENDAS out of our entertainment!

To Gamers: This is NOT an accurate representation of the 1920s! This is History Revisionism!

To Lovecraft fans: Poor Howard is rolling in his grave...

Conclusion:

DO NOT BUY THIS GAME! It was the greatest disappointment of 2019. If you want REAL Lovecraftian games, buy the Official Call of Cthulhu game instead. The devs of that game have signed a contract with Chaosium to keep making official COC games for the next 10 YEARS. Also check out the 2 Darkness Within games, as well as Conarium and the upcoming Transient.

[astarr]

Цитата допису Dear next of kin...:

Цитата допису astarr:

Sounds like people just want racism in their multimedia, which is everywhere so there should be no worries.

For everyone else, we realize that anti-Black and anti-Asian racism is drawn from mythical sources, often blaming society's faults on non-whites. When the problems we face as working white people, poor housing, poverty, inaccessible healthcare, etc. are problems stemming from a capitalist economy. Being racist and looking for race as a scapegoat for these problems will never find the source or solution to our problems. Which is why we need to be political in our multimedia, and those politics need to be anti-racist instead of racist.

When your argument against someone calling out your revisionism boils down to "But we're allowed to do it cause we're the good guys and everyone else is the bad guys" you don't have a real argument. Deciding to change history cause the way it actually was doesn't fit your narrative is wrong, no matter why you're doing it.

Nothing I wrote is revisionism, unless you honestly believe that when HP Lovecraft writes of whites being a superior "aryan" race, and that all others follow a hierarchy of inferior races, including Asians and African that's the truth, then of course you'd accuse an anti-racist analysis of history of revisionism. Or you're assuming that when I write of Lovecraft being a racist, that we should be revising history to say he wasn't? Like I'm not sure if you're using "revisionism" correctly here. However, yeah, I'll stand by "racism is bad and shouldn't be tolerated, and anti-racism is good and we should be producing anti-racist material more often" and I have arguments about that.

Цитата допису Dear next of kin...:

In 1863 when the government started drafting people in the north to fight the civil war, but then people found out you could pay $300 to avoid being drafted, almost the entirety of the poor in New York City exploded into a riot. A whole lot of government officials, journalists, black people, and rich people died over the course of days. The government had to call in the national guard and fire into the crowd to disperse them. Most people at the time saw the civil war as a rich man's fight, and the idea that the heads of most major companies in the north were only supporting the Union because freeing slaves meant they could replace their entire workforce with one that was willing to work for fractions of what they were currently paying their workers was widely held. 40 years later and much hadn't changed, especially not in the poor sections of the U.S. which is where Lovecraft spent his entire life. At that time the N-word was not a slur in most of the U.S. it was just what you called black people, and they even called each other and themselves that. More integrated and progressive cities picked up on respecting black people quicker, but it wasn't until after WW2 in the 1950s that the majority of the country started adopting these ideas, with the holdouts in the south still acting that way until the 1960s.

The adopting of the idea that racism is real and that black people deserve respect was a slow process that took nearly 100 years, and alot of peoples lives were devoted to that change. It's because of them that those ideas took hold and pretending that people all over the country just knew it was bad all the way back in Lovecraft's time and he was an outlier diminishes the lives and achievements of those who worked to affect that change. Leave history as it is, learn from the mistakes of the past, don't repeat them, but more importantly don't obsess over them and try to 'fix' them long after the fact.

ok? I mean, you're giving a history lesson that explains what was happening, and you say because it's happening that it was fine? For white supremacists of the 1800-1970's that acted out racist social policies they'd agree that's how things went and that it was fine. However, for black liberationists, they'd say that was happening and it wasn't fine. Heck, even Mohammid in 1968 would disagree that the N-word wasn't a derogatory slur: youtube.com/watch?v=B9LFmUVV0SY

I think you should follow history a bit more closely from the perspectives of those who were the subjects of colonial and white supremacist policy, otherwise you may fall into or continue that mindset. And that's not revisionist, that's listening to people who experienced what was happening, documenting it, and telling you how they felt and what they did.

Цитата допису kozmik:

Sounds like you're just a worthless communist puke that wants to spread their heinous filth without resistance. My heart really goes out to you, this must be very difficult for you.

Syndicalist, actually, which does include internationalism and anti-racism.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Цитата допису astarr:

Цитата допису Dear next of kin...:

When your argument against someone calling out your revisionism boils down to "But we're allowed to do it cause we're the good guys and everyone else is the bad guys" you don't have a real argument. Deciding to change history cause the way it actually was doesn't fit your narrative is wrong, no matter why you're doing it.

Nothing I wrote is revisionism, unless you honestly believe that when HP Lovecraft writes of whites being a superior "aryan" race, and that all others follow a hierarchy of inferior races, including Asians and African that's the truth, then of course you'd accuse an anti-racist analysis of history of revisionism. Or you're assuming that when I write of Lovecraft being a racist, that we should be revising history to say he wasn't? Like I'm not sure if you're using "revisionism" correctly here. However, yeah, I'll stand by "racism is bad and shouldn't be tolerated, and anti-racism is good and we should be producing anti-racist material more often" and I have arguments about that.

Цитата допису Dear next of kin...:

In 1863 when the government started drafting people in the north to fight the civil war, but then people found out you could pay $300 to avoid being drafted, almost the entirety of the poor in New York City exploded into a riot. A whole lot of government officials, journalists, black people, and rich people died over the course of days. The government had to call in the national guard and fire into the crowd to disperse them. Most people at the time saw the civil war as a rich man's fight, and the idea that the heads of most major companies in the north were only supporting the Union because freeing slaves meant they could replace their entire workforce with one that was willing to work for fractions of what they were currently paying their workers was widely held. 40 years later and much hadn't changed, especially not in the poor sections of the U.S. which is where Lovecraft spent his entire life. At that time the N-word was not a slur in most of the U.S. it was just what you called black people, and they even called each other and themselves that. More integrated and progressive cities picked up on respecting black people quicker, but it wasn't until after WW2 in the 1950s that the majority of the country started adopting these ideas, with the holdouts in the south still acting that way until the 1960s.

The adopting of the idea that racism is real and that black people deserve respect was a slow process that took nearly 100 years, and alot of peoples lives were devoted to that change. It's because of them that those ideas took hold and pretending that people all over the country just knew it was bad all the way back in Lovecraft's time and he was an outlier diminishes the lives and achievements of those who worked to affect that change. Leave history as it is, learn from the mistakes of the past, don't repeat them, but more importantly don't obsess over them and try to 'fix' them long after the fact.

ok? I mean, you're giving a history lesson that explains what was happening, and you say because it's happening that it was fine? For white supremacists of the 1800-1970's that acted out racist social policies they'd agree that's how things went and that it was fine. However, for black liberationists, they'd say that was happening and it wasn't fine. Heck, even Mohammid in 1968 would disagree that the N-word wasn't a derogatory slur: youtube.com/watch?v=B9LFmUVV0SY

I think you should follow history a bit more closely from the perspectives of those who were the subjects of colonial and white supremacist policy, otherwise you may fall into or continue that mindset. And that's not revisionist, that's listening to people who experienced what was happening, documenting it, and telling you how they felt and what they did.

Цитата допису kozmik:

Sounds like you're just a worthless communist puke that wants to spread their heinous filth without resistance. My heart really goes out to you, this must be very difficult for you.

Syndicalist, actually, which does include internationalism and anti-racism.

And btw, lovecraft almost never talked directly of racism, it was not the scope of its work, despite what some dork here seems to think. In horror at redhook he wrote about dirty and perverted immigrants (including italians) but in another novel (the one involving the captain of an uboat) he described a drowned italian sailor as good looking. His views on racism werent clear, he started from the classic biological racism and then adopted a more fascist, social-class and culture based kind of racism. In the last years he did not hate “negroes” but filthy rich people.
He also married a jewish woman, so not your classic 1940s nazi/racist.
So, he was racist, in the early days VERY racist but later adopted a softer position. And while the decline of civilization was one of his main themes, racism and class segregation were not.

[Feremir]

"When the problems we face as working white people, poor housing, poverty, inaccessible healthcare, etc. are problems stemming from a capitalist economy." I'm sorry but you are wrong.What about the federal housing program?did that solved the housing crisis ? or the Veterans health care services?it's run by the government and it has a lot of flaws.What about government programs for the homeless,did that solve the issue?

As you can see most of the problems we face in nowadays are because of the government regulations,intervention,failed social programs and high taxes.

The only real way to "fix" is "shrinking" the size of government,giving people more freedom to people to do what they want with their own money.

[Feremir]

Thanks Beyonder1979 for your review,I was hoping this game would be focusing more on the work/Cthulhu Mythos but instead the devs seems more worried in delivering a political agenda.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Цитата допису Feremir:

"When the problems we face as working white people, poor housing, poverty, inaccessible healthcare, etc. are problems stemming from a capitalist economy." I'm sorry but you are wrong.What about the federal housing program?did that solved the housing crisis ? or the Veterans health care services?it's run by the government and it has a lot of flaws.What about government programs for the homeless,did that solve the issue?

As you can see most of the problems we face in nowadays are because of the government regulations,intervention,failed social programs and high taxes.

The only real way to "fix" is "shrinking" the size of government,giving people more freedom to people to do what they want with their own money.

Ironically, Lovecraft was against laissez fair and deregulations.
Just because the US goverment is a corrupt and plutocratic mess which is not able to deliver a proper welfare system since WW2, it does not mean government intervention is always a bad thing.
Sadly being a based and repilled bible-thumper does not make up for a failing school system such as the Usa’s one.

[astarr]

Цитата допису Feremir:

"When the problems we face as working white people, poor housing, poverty, inaccessible healthcare, etc. are problems stemming from a capitalist economy." I'm sorry but you are wrong.What about the federal housing program?did that solved the housing crisis ? or the Veterans health care services?it's run by the government and it has a lot of flaws.What about government programs for the homeless,did that solve the issue?

As you can see most of the problems we face in nowadays are because of the government regulations,intervention,failed social programs and high taxes.

The only real way to "fix" is "shrinking" the size of government,giving people more freedom to people to do what they want with their own money.

Sounds like American capitalism still sucks.

[Dr. Guildo]

I'm getting the word... "boomer".

[astarr]

Well OP convinced the other white nationalists, which isn't hard because they already fell for white nationalism.

[Feremir]

"Sounds like American capitalism still sucks." That's because the american system what we have today have more social programs than ever before,bloated and inflated government therefore it's closer to a socialist state than a capitalism one.

"convinced the other white nationalists" I agree with the OP because he raised good points regarding the story/lore of the game.You can have political statements and so on but in this case feels like the devs are worried in pushing a political agenda rather than telling a story with a good narrative.
Also as a side note I'm from Brazil,one the most mixed countries in the world,why do you assume that just because I agree with the OP I'm a "white nationalist".Feels like you need to resort to ad hominem because you don't have any real arguments.

[astarr]

Цитата допису Feremir:

That's because the american system what we have today have more social programs than ever before,bloated and inflated government therefore it's closer to a socialist state than a capitalism one.

Government ownership is not what socialism is. I know a bunch of americans fell for this idea nd made posters about Obama being a socialist, but that's not what socialism is. By the way, american hospitals, homeless shelters and prisons are all privately-owned and your postal service will soon be too, so I dunno where you get off that government is bloated outside of police and armed forces.

Цитата допису Feremir:

I agree with the OP because he raised good points regarding the story/lore of the game.You can have political statements and so on but in this case feels like the devs are worried in pushing a political agenda rather than telling a story with a good narrative.

Lovecraft had a political agenda when we wrote about race, so this still all boils down to "I prefer white supremacy to anti-racism" again. This argument has nothing new beyond that, which is why I'd write is only convincing white nationalists to not buy into anti-racism in video games.

Цитата допису Feremir:

Also as a side note I'm from Brazil,one the most mixed countries in the world,why do you assume that just because I agree with the OP I'm a "white nationalist".Feels like you need to resort to ad hominem because you don't have any real arguments.

Heh, there's a lot to unpack here, but 1) I've already explained how Lovecraft was political and a white supremacist, which means all Lovecraftian work is political and can either be based in bigotry or anti-bigotry, your "argument" brings nothing new and is more "ad hominem" than mine anyways, and 2) if you oppose anti-racism, you'd be an anti-anti-racist, which means... ___

Besides, if there's anything your military president in Brazil has taught us is that Brazilians can be racist too. And that's only the recent history.

[Feremir]

"According to the 2014 American Hospital Association Annual Survey, there are 5,686 hospitals in the United States. Of that total, 2,904 are public hospitals."
Homeless shelters are usually operated by a non-profit agency or a municipal agency, or are associated with a church"That's the thing,the US has a mix of both private and public,therefore my argument still stands.

Yes you are right about Lovecraft,let's take an awesome(yet flawed game) that got the story and the "vibe" right : call of cthulhu dark corners of the earth.The theme of the story was about right and I would expect something similar with this game(horror&thriller) which is not case.

Цитата допису astarr:

Heh, there's a lot to unpack here, but 1) I've already explained how Lovecraft was political and a white supremacist, which means all Lovecraftian work is political and can either be based in bigotry or anti-bigotry, your "argument" brings nothing new and is more "ad hominem" than mine anyways, and 2) if you oppose anti-racism, you'd be an anti-anti-racist, which means... ___

Besides, if there's anything your military president in Brazil has taught us is that Brazilians can be racist too. And that's only the recent history.Quoted text

Please do state where do I've used ad hominem when writing about you.Yes I agree,brazilians can be racist,white can be racist,blacks can be racist,racism is (sadly) part of the human behavior.I judge people on the account of their character,not skin/religion/background and so on.

[astarr]

Цитата допису Feremir:

"According to the 2014 American Hospital Association Annual Survey, there are 5,686 hospitals in the United States. Of that total, 2,904 are public hospitals."
Homeless shelters are usually operated by a non-profit agency or a municipal agency, or are associated with a church"That's the thing,the US has a mix of both private and public,therefore my argument still stands.

Yes you are right about Lovecraft

American capitalism still sucks.

For anyone else reading this terrible thread, socialism is not "the government owns things." Capitalism is when there is an exchange value attached to all commodities (ie. you pay for goods and services with money you get through selling your time and labour, or renting the time and labour or others), and ownership of the means of production are by a class (ie. capitalist class, industrialists, or nation-states). Socialism is when the working class have abolished private property from said classes and control the means of their production (ie. Catalonia 1936-1939). When the capitalist class (ie. governments) in a capitalist society (ie. America, where you have to use money to buy things by selling your time and labour) own some means of production (1/2 of every hospital/clinic, some postal and delivery services, a few schools, etc) then that is not socialist.

This equating socialism with the worse aspects of welfare reform or government ownership comes from the same gullibility that would believe supporting white power ideleogy is good for white working class people. Which is what OP and others fell for.

racism is (sadly) part of the human behavior

No it's not. It's taught. That could be your behaviour but it's not everyone's.

[Feremir]

Цитата допису astarr:

For anyone else reading this terrible thread, socialism is not "the government owns things."

Indeed,but when the government works with a few corporations,by creating regulations(ie:laws to make harder to open business) to ensure monopoly leaning towards a closed market per se then you sure are closer to a socialist society than a capitalist one.In east Germany was like that, Pentacon just to name an expample.

The Social Security program is a form of socialism;the government controls the money and decides when and how much the workes get back after—and if—they reach retirement age.You can't opt-out,you are forced to pay,you can't decide what you do with your own money.The same goes for several others government programs.

Цитата допису astarr:

When the capitalist class (ie. governments)

The government isn't capitalist because it does produce nor it has money of it's own,the government is supported by the tax payer.

Цитата допису astarr:

comes from the same gullibility that would believe supporting white power ideleogy is good for white working class people. Which is what OP and others fell for.

I don't support socialism because it uses force and coercion to to achieve its goals,I am someone who stands for freedom and socialism is something goes against in what I fundamentally believe.

Цитата допису Feremir:

racism is (sadly) part of the human behavior

Цитата допису astarr:

No it's not. It's taught. That could be your behaviour but it's not everyone's.

Nope,it's not how I perceive the world,just check my last reply.

Just because I don't agree with you that doesn't make me a "white supremacist",we were talking about some of the core features of the game that we din't like it and that does not make anyone a "white supremacist".

[astarr]

Цитата допису Feremir:

Цитата допису astarr:

For anyone else reading this terrible thread, socialism is not "the government owns things."

Indeed,but when the government works with a few corporations,by creating regulations(ie:laws to make harder to open business) to ensure monopoly leaning towards a closed market per se then you sure are closer to a socialist society than a capitalist one.In east Germany was like that, Pentacon just to name an expample.

That is literally fascism, which is Mussolini argued should be called "corporatism" for this very reason. I don't even know why I'm explaining this to someone without the bare understanding of economic systems.

The Social Security program is a form of socialism;the government controls the money and decides when and how much the workes get back after—and if—they reach retirement age.You can't opt-out,you are forced to pay,you can't decide what you do with your own money.The same goes for several others government programs.

No. Governments owning things is not socialism Again, this is like explaining basic economics to a child. Socialism is something very different from government ownership of companies; it is the complete abolition of companies as we understand them, the abolition of money and exchange value, the collective ownership by all working class people - the government is not working class people nor can it be because they then would no longer be working class people.

The government isn't capitalist because it does produce nor it has money of it's own,the government is supported by the tax payer.

The government produces when it owns things! This will get incredibly confusing to you when you believe that "government ownership of business is socialist" and "social programs by governments is socialism," because the government can own businesses and be an actor within capitalism (Adam Smith writes about this when describing capitalism to capitalists!). Social programs are so beneficial to capitalism because it 1) allows workers to reproduce their labour, especially more levels of skilled labour when they provide the training programs (ie. schools and colleges) to the capitalist class, 2) allows workers to survive to continue production by giving some funding to clinics and hospitals, and 3) gives people money to spend within the capitalist economy so that businesses can continue to generate money. Even american liberals explain this to other capitalists.

I don't support socialism because it uses force and coercion to to achieve its goals,I am someone who stands for freedom and socialism is something goes against in what I fundamentally believe.

You don't even know what socialism is.

Nope,it's not how I perceive the world,just check my last reply.

Just because I don't agree with you that doesn't make me a "white supremacist",we were talking about some of the core features of the game that we din't like it and that does not make anyone a "white supremacist".

I doubt you even know what white supremacy is. This entire thread is:

• This game says Lovecraft was a racist and says it wants to tell a story from an anti-racist perspective
  
• OP says the game shouldn't be anti-racist and applauds Lovecraft's racism and says we should have more of that story
  
• Every other person is saying that Lovecraft was racist, it's good that we have games that are anti-racist, and we should strive to achieve anti-racism in our society
  
• You and two others come in and tell OP "Thanks for letting me know this game is anti-racist, I don't like anti-racism and will avoid this game"
  
• You go on for 4 threads to explain how little you know about society. politics and economics
  
• I explain to you like you're a child opening their first flipbook what is happening using bullet points

[Feremir]

Цитата допису astarr:

That is literally fascism, which is Mussolini argued should be called "corporatism" for this very reason. I don't even know why I'm explaining this to someone without the bare understanding of economic systems.

And yet my example was about East Germany,therefore my point stands for a planned economy.

Цитата допису astarr:

No. Governments owning things is not socialism Again, this is like explaining basic economics to a child.

A social program in which you can't opt out,belongs to socialism,because it's a basic form of redistribution of wealth and as for of my understanding it does make part of the socialist ideology.

Цитата допису astarr:

Socialism is something very different from government ownership of companies; it is the complete abolition of companies as we understand them, the abolition of money and exchange value

And how do you achieve something like that ? through the power of the state,by using force and coercion.

Цитата допису astarr:

the collective ownership by all working class people

Yes we do have something like that it's called worker cooperative.

Цитата допису astarr:

You don't even know what socialism is.

I've stated a couple examples on the "modus operandi" of socialism yet you seem to be focused on only a few of it's points.

Цитата допису astarr:

I doubt you even know what white supremacy is. This entire thread is:
This game says Lovecraft was a racist and says it wants to tell a story from an anti-racist perspective
OP says the game shouldn't be anti-racist and applauds Lovecraft's racism and says we should have more of that story
Every other person is saying that Lovecraft was racist, it's good that we have games that are anti-racist, and we should strive to achieve anti-racism in our society

The OP said the following points were the worse regarding the game :

Цитата допису Beyonder1979:

LGBT characters, Feminism Posters all over, Innsmouthers are the GOOD guys and they're portrayed as illegal immigrants who are attacked by the KKK, the Order of Dagon is now an Extremist/Terrorist Organization, Trump Reference: a local Politician wants to build a wall around the city, Leftism, anti-fascism, anti-racism, anti-nationalism, open borders, History Revisionism

Those are things that I wouldn't expect in a Lovecraft-based game,that's why I mentioned that other game,call of cthulhu.Because it's a game focused on the horror/thriller with a good story,that's what I was looking for in this game.

Цитата допису astarr:

You and two others come in and tell OP "Thanks for letting me know this game is anti-racist, I don't like anti-racism and will avoid this game"

Where did I said that?please do quote me on that one.I've just said I din't like the political agenda and the out of place themes.
By all means you can have something on those lines if they're done right and how it is development within the game,which it seems this not the case with the game.