Was the Noble Alliance justified in starting The Erebonian Civil War?

[Black Frost]

Hello ladies and gentlemen, I created this discussion because I wanted your honest opinion on this topic. Throughout Trails of Cold Steel 1 we was taught that the nobles of Erebonia take pride in their blue blood, their traditions, their culture, and their status quo. They believe that it is their God given right to rule over commoners. To stand at the pinnacle of social class. They carried that power for hundreds of years, until the Reformist Faction came along. They felt threatened that their ideology is being challenged and scrutinized by the Reformist group. Just like in real life it's hard for people to change their ideals and their way of life. I wanted to be objective as possible when writing this, I just wanted to show you the argument for the Noble Alliance. So my dear readers, do you think the Noble Alliance was justified in starting the war, or do you think they was in the wrong? Let me know in the comments. Oh and I really appreciate it if the discussion on this topic focus mainly on Cold Steel 1 and 2 since I haven't played the Crossbell games or the games after Cold Steel 2 yet. If you feel you must reference past and future games then please put a spoiler tag on, so that me and other players won't get spoiled. Thank you.

[Koby]

Short answer: No.

However this may or may not be based around learning of more events that took place by their hand, which I'm not sure exactly which game they took place in so I'll spoiler tag some things.

After learning about Hamel and what happened there... it's pretty hard to feel like the Nobility were justified in anything that took place at any point.

Even less so once they take royal family captive.

[Stabbey]

They were repeatedly provoked, deliberately, by the Chancellor... but I don't think that justifies the war. Their talk about traditions, status, etc... it's hard to take their position that Nobles deserve the higher place in society seriously, when they don't even have respect for Nobles who don't fall into line with the Noble Alliance. Take the event in the prologue of Cold Steel 2 - Duke Albarea sending jaegers to attack the territory of another Noble.

Oh, not to mention that there's no one with more status and tradition around than the Emperor, and they locked him and his family up as prisoners.

No, it's all about a privileged few upset about the loss of their exclusive privilege, and being willing to commit violence against the government because of it. *cough*

[Histidine]

The NA attempting a coup to protect their unjust social advantages is something they might be expected to do (and as Stabbey notes, Osborne was provoking them a lot), but that's not the same thing as it being good and right. Not that Osborne is a good or desirable ruler, but the NA is even less legitimate and their policy platform is no better, possibly worse.

In terms of passing moral judgement from on high (as opposed to something like understanding the way the nobles think, or trying to find a way to prevent the war from happening), my reaction to "Our unfair, imposed-by-force hierarchy of birth is being torn down! The plebs are gaining power!" is ThenPerish.jpg

[Whatever-man]

Originally posted by Histidine:

The NA attempting a coup to protect their unjust social advantages is something they might be expected to do (and as Stabbey notes, Osborne was provoking them a lot), but that's not the same thing as it being good and right. Not that Osborne is a good or desirable ruler, but the NA is even less legitimate and their policy platform is no better, possibly worse.

In terms of passing moral judgement from on high (as opposed to something like understanding the way the nobles think, or trying to find a way to prevent the war from happening), my reaction to "Our unfair, imposed-by-force hierarchy of birth is being torn down! The plebs are gaining power!" is ThenPerish.jpg

spoilers about CS3

According to a dialogue on CS3 between the Chancellor and the Emperor, not only Osborne was provoking then, but he actually wanted them to start a civil war

[Dragon]

The concept of "Noble" is inherently evil. It's arbitrarily pretending that one person is magically better than another, even though in reality, that isn't true.

So yes "Nobles" were wrong to start wars, but long before we get to that point, they were wrong to dare call themselves "Nobles" and pretend they are superior in the first place.

Same exact thing also applies with "Royals" too.

All of them, "Nobles" and "Royals" alike, should either have to admit that they are no better than anyone else, and pledge never again to try and "Lord" their fake "superior" status over anyone, and have to surrender all of their unearned wealth that they were born into and which they gained as a result of their families having oppressed & exploited normal people for many generations.

Or else if they refuse to do those things, then they should all be quarantined onto a prison island where they live in squalor among each other and have no contact with the outside world where the normal people without delusions of grandeur and without unearned privilege live.

[Koby]

Originally posted by Dragon:

The concept of "Noble" is inherently evil. It's arbitrarily pretending that one person is magically better than another, even though in reality, that isn't true.

So yes "Nobles" were wrong to start wars, but long before we get to that point, they were wrong to dare call themselves "Nobles" and pretend they are superior in the first place.

Same exact thing also applies with "Royals" too.

All of them, "Nobles" and "Royals" alike, should either have to admit that they are no better than anyone else, and pledge never again to try and "Lord" their fake "superior" status over anyone, and have to surrender all of their unearned wealth that they were born into and which they gained as a result of their families having oppressed & exploited normal people for many generations.

Or else if they refuse to do those things, then they should all be quarantined onto a prison island where they live in squalor among each other and have no contact with the outside world where the normal people without delusions of grandeur and without unearned privilege live.

Talk about a very silly viewpoint. People are evil solely based on being born? Wow...

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Koby:

Talk about a very silly viewpoint. People are evil solely based on being born? Wow...

What makes a "noble" and/or "royal" in any way better and/or superior to anyone else?

The only real answer is: absolutely nothing!

The belief that there is something different and/or better about them is simply a ludicrous superstition.

And one which they use to oppress everyone else, and the normal people whose labor they leech off of like parasites, in order to keep themselves wealthy.

How is any of that not evil?

[Koby]

Originally posted by Dragon:

Originally posted by Koby:

Talk about a very silly viewpoint. People are evil solely based on being born? Wow...

What makes a "noble" and/or "royal" in any way better and/or superior to anyone else?

The only real answer is: absolutely nothing!

The belief that there is something different and/or better about them is simply a ludicrous superstition.

And one which they use to oppress everyone else, and the normal people whose labor they leech off of like parasites, in order to keep themselves wealthy.

How is any of that not evil?

Did I say nobles were better or superior even? Please don't try to put words into my mouth.

People are not born evil nor evil solely because of what social standing they're born into.

[Mr Compassionate]

Short story? The nobles get salty because their non-meritocratic hierarchy is being challenged by social and technological progression while Osborne keeps shaking his butt at them. Their solution? A completely illegal insurrection.

Their imprisoning of the royals was a foolish move, the entire concept of feudalism is that a king rules vicariously on behalf of god (in this case Aideos) and the nobility derive their authority from the monarch's divine right. Claiming sovereignty of the empire based on merely being a noble holds no weight at all, you might win a military conquest but you'll face endless unrest from the unjustified usurpation.