The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II

The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel II

maskedlord76 Mar 9, 2018 @ 11:00am
Spoiler question about the ending
Apologies if this has been asked before but doesnt Thors have a 2 year cirriculum? Why is Class VII leaving after just 1 year? Even Sara is leaving the instructor job for the old Bracer life.
Kinda feels cheap that through the entire game their motivation was to take back Thors so they can go back to school and the old days but now they cant wait to all leave.
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Showing 1-15 of 106 comments
ZWabbit Mar 9, 2018 @ 11:04am 
Explanations are sort of given in CS3, but the lack of one in CS2 caused a lot of confusion (and to be frank irritation) for a lot of us western players.
Everyone's justification for leaving is explained during the final dorm event.

Jusis: With the Duke under arrest and Rufus off governing the new territory, Jusis is the only one left to govern the Kreuzen province.

Machias: wants to follow in his father's footsteps and become a politician. After his participation in the war as a member of the Crimson Wings, he is invited to Heimdallr University. He no longer needs to attend Thors.

Alisa: In the wake of Reinford's split during the war, Irina and Gwyn are trying to reorganize the company. It's the best time for Alisa to learn how the new company's structure will operate and slowly become it's new president.

Gaius: He came here to learn about Erebonia and train to better protect his homeland. He accomplished both, and is returning home to aid his father Lacan. He's also the only other able-bodied man in the village with the skill to defend it.

Fie: wants to find her old family and the truth regarding what really happened to Rutger.

Emma: her only job was to attend Thors in case someone awakened Valimar, and guide his awakener through the system. Wants to find Vita.

Elliot: Always wanted to become a musician. Only attended Thors because his dad wanted him to become a military man, so Thors was the best Elliot could get. Now that his father has relented, Elliot can now attend the music academy in Heimdallr with his friends.

Laura: Similar to Jusis, she is the sole heir to Legram. As such, she has no need to graduate. She has also learned all that she can combat wise from Thors, and will be better served training under the Radiant Blademaster.

Millium: Works for Osborne, was sent to Thors to find C, check up on Olivier's pet project, and monitor Rean. C is no longer a problem; Class VII has ended and Altina has taken over as Rean's monitor. She is given a new assignment.
ZWabbit Mar 9, 2018 @ 3:33pm 
Those are justifications, but they do not constitute explanations. There was a decision making process that led them to their choices, but since we never see that process in CS2, we have no explanation for the why. As a consequence, the justifications are not sufficient in the context of the overall plot. While each of the individual decisions might make sense on the personal level, how they fit into the wider story of CS, Falcom failed to demonstrate.
Danny Mar 9, 2018 @ 11:19pm 
There's actually a good in-depth explanation as to why this happens if you Google search the topic at hand in the GameFaqs forums. The /r/Falcom sub-reddit also has this posted somewhere.
Macros Mar 10, 2018 @ 12:59am 
You know, I'm always a bit intrigued by the fact people apparently dislike not having the whole thing spelled out. I mean, I think CS2 has quite a few flaws, but I'm actually pretty okay with the way they did the ending. I liked having to infer what has happened behind the scenes, and found the whole thing pretty believable - then again, I expected something like that from beginning. Each time Rean went on "I want to go back to these peaceful academy days", I couldn't help but think "I don't think you can ever go back, even if you win". So in that way, class VII splitting up because they all have a role to play in a post civil war Erebonia, and they can't afford to wait one more year to graduate, made perfect sense to me.
Danny Mar 10, 2018 @ 2:37am 
Originally posted by Macros:
You know, I'm always a bit intrigued by the fact people apparently dislike not having the whole thing spelled out. I mean, I think CS2 has quite a few flaws, but I'm actually pretty okay with the way they did the ending. I liked having to infer what has happened behind the scenes, and found the whole thing pretty believable - then again, I expected something like that from beginning. Each time Rean went on "I want to go back to these peaceful academy days", I couldn't help but think "I don't think you can ever go back, even if you win". So in that way, class VII splitting up because they all have a role to play in a post civil war Erebonia, and they can't afford to wait one more year to graduate, made perfect sense to me.

I wholeheartedly agree with you here. I really can't comprehend why some people must have everything spelled out to them. The whole point is to pay attention to the story and figure out why something has happened. Part of what makes good storytelling is having the audience use their imagination to some extent. Not everything needs to be explained....
Luke Mar 10, 2018 @ 2:54am 
Osbro shut down class 7 as it was Oliver's project to try combat him.
Velorien Mar 10, 2018 @ 3:44am 
Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Machias: wants to follow in his father's footsteps and become a politician. After his participation in the war as a member of the Crimson Wings, he is invited to Heimdallr University. He no longer needs to attend Thors.
Machias isn't invited to the university. He has to study like a demon to have a chance of getting in. Which makes sense, since it's not like he distinguished himself academically or politically during the war.

Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Alisa: In the wake of Reinford's split during the war, Irina and Gwyn are trying to reorganize the company. It's the best time for Alisa to learn how the new company's structure will operate and slowly become it's new president.
Alisa talks about the need to rebuild the company, but learning its operation as an objective is implied at best, and nothing is said about her becoming president (at least in the foreseeable future). Honestly, it's not clear to me what she even has to contribute to the rebuilding process, as compared to staying at the Academy another year and becoming a more rounded individual with an outside perspective to bring to the table.

Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Gaius: He came here to learn about Erebonia and train to better protect his homeland. He accomplished both, and is returning home to aid his father Lacan. He's also the only other able-bodied man in the village with the skill to defend it.
I don't think him being an able-bodied man is meaningful when what he's afraid of is an invasion by one or both national armies. I actually think he has the least plausible justification. There's just so little he can accomplish back home compared to continuing his studies at one of the best educational institutions in northwest Zemuria.

Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Emma: her only job was to attend Thors in case someone awakened Valimar, and guide his awakener through the system. Wants to find Vita.
Wanting to find Vita I can sympathise with, though Emma never displays that intensity of interest/concern for her in the rest of the game. The problem is that her decision jars really badly with the fact that her personal epiphany is about her loyalty to Class VII being more important than her role as a witch. This is another case where showing us more of the decision-making process, rather than presenting the result as a fait accompli, would have made it a lot easier to accept.

Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Elliot: Always wanted to become a musician. Only attended Thors because his dad wanted him to become a military man, so Thors was the best Elliot could get. Now that his father has relented, Elliot can now attend the music academy in Heimdallr with his friends.
The problem with this is that even in CS1, Elliot's character growth is about accepting his place at Thors and the fact that he's found things there which he never would have at the music academy. It's about him going from a sullen rebel against his authoritarian father to somebody embracing his place in life. And I think it's fair to say that his Class VII friends are more important to him by now than the ones he left behind in Heimdallr and has never gone to see.

Originally posted by Val the Moofia Boss:
Laura: Similar to Jusis, she is the sole heir to Legram. As such, she has no need to graduate. She has also learned all that she can combat wise from Thors, and will be better served training under the Radiant Blademaster.
Except she didn't come to Thors for the sake of becoming a better fighter. That is the one part of her life which has always been firmly on track. Insofar as we're even told her reasons, which is not very much, they're more to do with everything else that she can get at Thors but not back in Legram.

Originally posted by Luke:
Osbro shut down class 7 as it was Oliver's project to try combat him.
This hasn't been stated, at least in CS2. Everyone acts as if it's their own personal decision to leave, and the person you bonded with even offers to put off their plans and stay.

Originally posted by Kiseki:
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. I really can't comprehend why some people must have everything spelled out to them. The whole point is to pay attention to the story and figure out why something has happened. Part of what makes good storytelling is having the audience use their imagination to some extent. Not everything needs to be explained....
We are used to the Trails series spelling out important character motivations. If it suddenly changes its storytelling MO, it is natural to feel that the series is suddenly withholding information, as opposed to giving us exactly the right amount. In a series where this kind of thing was usually left to the player's imagination, there'd be far less ground for complaint.
Last edited by Velorien; Mar 10, 2018 @ 4:19am
Luke Mar 10, 2018 @ 6:38am 
Originally posted by Velorien:
Originally posted by Luke:
Osbro shut down class 7 as it was Oliver's project to try combat him.
This hasn't been stated, at least in CS2. Everyone acts as if it's their own personal decision to leave, and the person you bonded with even offers to put off their plans and stay.

Originally posted by Kiseki:
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. I really can't comprehend why some people must have everything spelled out to them. The whole point is to pay attention to the story and figure out why something has happened. Part of what makes good storytelling is having the audience use their imagination to some extent. Not everything needs to be explained....
We are used to the Trails series spelling out important character motivations. If it suddenly changes its storytelling MO, it is natural to feel that the series is suddenly withholding information, as opposed to giving us exactly the right amount. In a series where this kind of thing was usually left to the player's imagination, there'd be far less ground for complaint.

If you play the sky trilogy it is spelt out for you there and you notice and link a lot more things when playing cs1 and 2.

I wonder what the class 7 jobs look very similar to and were inspired by ?
Last edited by Luke; Mar 10, 2018 @ 6:39am
Velorien Mar 10, 2018 @ 8:15am 
Originally posted by Luke:
If you play the sky trilogy it is spelt out for you there and you notice and link a lot more things when playing cs1 and 2.

I wonder what the class 7 jobs look very similar to and were inspired by ?
I'm actually not sure what you're getting at with either of these comments. Would you mind elaborating?
ZWabbit Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:01am 
On the contrary, for a lot of us it's because we paid attention to the details that the ending of CS2 is full of incongruities. Falcom spent two games constructing Class VII as having very specific sets of ideals, morals, and ethics. They all have something to aspire to, and they all believe in a certain set of standards. We are expected to take these standards seriously because Falcom has those standards as be what drives Class VII over the course of the civil war to intervene like they do, and literally the only way to make sense of the self-justifications they keep coming up with that they're somehow a neutral third party while fighting on the reformists' side.

Come the end of CS2, Class VII is apparently splitting up, even though the single biggest factor in starting the civil war is still at large, Giliath Osborne. If we were to take all their prior claims seriously about being willing to do the right thing even if it's not the easy thing, Class VII should be standing in firm opposition of the chancellor in some way, shape, or form. Instead they're all apparently going on their own ways, with no indication at all they're even aware of the danger Osborne continues to represent. For that matter none of the other noble students seem to recognize that the greatest political enemy of their families is in a position to reach down and rip out the guts of their family's prior political standing and power. One would hope the Thors students, Class VII, really aren't that stupid, but Falcom provides no indication otherwise. That combined with how Class VII's actions give no indication they're even thinking of trying to stop Osborne robs them of significant credibility as characters we should continue carrying about.

The purpose of following Class VII in general and Rean specifically over the course of the CS arc is that they are supposed to play pivotal roles in the unfolding of the plot. For us players to be satisfied with following them, these characters need to perform their roles with some degree of credibility. They need to demonstrate that not only are they capable of shouldering these roles, they also need to show them overcoming the various challenges that arise is believable. CS1 did okay in that regard, the majority of the times Class VII was stymied they were up against geopolitical forces well outside of their personal capability to handle. In CS2, they kept getting their asses handed to them on a personal basis and it was very much them biting off more than they can chew. This has the secondary consequence of calling into question the competency of the adults. Why the blazes did the adults entrust and continue to entrust Class VII with these responsibilities, when they were obviously getting in over their heads at critical junctures.

In addition to whether they possess sufficient "power" to stand up to these foes, there is also the matter of whether they are smart or cunning enough to do so. The true opponents they are facing are not the seemingly incompetent Noble Alliance, it's Osborne and Ouroboros. That is the level of guile they need to demonstrate they at minimum possess. There are certain indicators that would indicate such possession, of which we have seen basically none of over the course of the two games. For that matter Rean seems to go out of his way to avoid having to think at that level, refusing to try to dig up more information at multiple turns and letting himself be diverted. A purely reactive stance like this is not good enough against the likes of the chancellor and the society, and if Falcom expects us to think Rean and Class VII's eventual victory is credible, they need to demonstrate to us beforehand Rean and Class VII possessing the basic ability to actually win.

CS3 spoilers
Rean does, finally, start asking questions in CS3, but again the problem is he's asking not about the why but the what. What is going on. What is that thing the chancellor is trying to do. What could motivate the chancellor. He doesn't seem to ever get around to, why should I stop the chancellor? Why is the cost of what the chancellor done not justified? As such, he is still reactive, not proactive, and to be frank that Osborne hasn't just removed him from play outright feels more like the chancellor himself is holding back, not because Rean has any meaningful power to prevent himelf from being sidelined.
Guldo Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:15am 
When i played the game till the end it pretty much looked like they were hinting at Trails of cold steel 3 taking place in the areas around cross bell and such like in both calvard and erebonia with your new allies being lloyd and rixia for example because ever since i beat the game i have always had this nagging feeling that rean is gonna help lloyd and rixia fight for crossbells independance and oppose chancelor osborne. how far off am i from the truth. i mean the whole way they done the ending looked like one big teaser of things to come.
Last edited by Guldo; Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:17am
ZWabbit Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:19am 
Very, very off. The whole Crossbell section of CS2 was meant more as a cameo bonus for the Japanese audience that actually got to play the Crossbell games than any significant foreshadowing of future directions.

CS3 spoiler
You do get to run into them in a Crossbell chapter, but it's not for the purpose you're suggesting.
Last edited by ZWabbit; Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:25am
Guldo Mar 10, 2018 @ 9:34am 
Originally posted by ZWabbit:
Very, very off. The whole Crossbell section of CS2 was meant more as a cameo bonus for the Japanese audience that actually got to play the Crossbell games than any significant foreshadowing of future directions.

CS3 spoiler
You do get to run into them in a Crossbell chapter, but it's not for the purpose you're suggesting.
yea i know i looked it up i couldnt have been more wrong lol.
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Date Posted: Mar 9, 2018 @ 11:00am
Posts: 106