I really hate the pre-decided battles

[Akim]

I know... sometimes the story has to go one way. But it is positively annoying if you are set to NOT win in a battle by some cheat mechanic of the enemy.

[Mistfox]

That is the only thing? lol.

What about the fact that enemies that you already defeated don't "die" because of plot armour and suddenly "power up" and you end up needing your mommy and daddy to carry you? lol.

"It's impossible to get through the shield!!"
-halfway through battle-
"You guys go ahead!"
-halfway through another battle-
"I'll be your opponent!"
-another battle-
"Olivert and Torval!"

Be honest, there was a service door in the back that all these guys were using wasn't it? Only our party was dumb enough to try the main door.

[Akim]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

That is the only thing? lol.

What about the fact that enemies that you already defeated don't "die" because of plot armour and suddenly "power up" and you end up needing your mommy and daddy to carry you? lol.

"It's impossible to get through the shield!!"
-halfway through battle-
"You guys go ahead!"
-halfway through another battle-
"I'll be your opponent!"
-another battle-
"Olivert and Torval!"

Be honest, there was a service door in the back that all these guys were using wasn't it? Only our party was dumb enough to try the main door.

HAha yeah... I mean I love the story and the characters. But they are WAY too friendly with murderers and terrorists. And you just cant kill people, so oh no they are just there again.

Sigh.

[Spacebar]

Originally posted by Akim:

Originally posted by Mistfox:

That is the only thing? lol.

What about the fact that enemies that you already defeated don't "die" because of plot armour and suddenly "power up" and you end up needing your mommy and daddy to carry you? lol.

"It's impossible to get through the shield!!"
-halfway through battle-
"You guys go ahead!"
-halfway through another battle-
"I'll be your opponent!"
-another battle-
"Olivert and Torval!"

Be honest, there was a service door in the back that all these guys were using wasn't it? Only our party was dumb enough to try the main door.

HAha yeah... I mean I love the story and the characters. But they are WAY too friendly with murderers and terrorists. And you just cant kill people, so oh no they are just there again.

Sigh.

The antagonists are barely murderers to begin with. Of all the enforcers and Anguis Class VII fought, I'm not sure any of them legitimately killed anyone except Vulcan and Scarlet.

[Mistfox]

I don't think Vulcan and Scarlet classify as Oroborus, there are 3 factions as your enemies, Oroborus, the Noble alliance and the Imperial Liberation Front, all of them with different goals.

The Noble faction certainly did kill people, just behind the scenes, probably because there are kids in FalCom's target audience. Hamlin for example. ILF certainly did as mentioned. Oroborous is a bit schizo. Some want to kill, some are more restrained.

I just wish they kept their story a bit more in order though. I just did a replay and all the old facepalms are coming back to me.

"Stand back!"
-Summons Valimar-
-Party is in exactly the same place when Valimar lands-

"Valimar, The Ashen Knight!"
"Sorry, Valimar is busy at the moment. Please leave a message after the beep and he'll get back to you shortly."

-Summons Divine Knight-
"Can we fight now?"
"No, we still have to wait until that Knight flies over and lands."
"Tell me again why we don't just shoot that kid before the mech flies over and save ourselves all the trouble?"
"..... "

[Spacebar]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

I don't think Vulcan and Scarlet classify as Oroborus, there are 3 factions as your enemies, Oroborus, the Noble alliance and the Imperial Liberation Front, all of them with different goals.

The Noble faction certainly did kill people, just behind the scenes, probably because there are kids in FamCom's target audience. Hamlin for example. ILF certainly did as mentioned. Oroborous is a bit schizo. Some want to kill, some are more restrained.

I just wish they kept their story a bit more in order though. I just did a replay and all the old facepalms are coming back to me.

"Stand back!"
-Summons Valimar-
-Party is in exactly the same place when Valimar lands-

"Valimar, The Ashen Knight!"
"Sorry, Valimar is busy at the moment. Please leave a message after the beep and he'll get back to you shortly."

-Summons Divine Knight-
"Can we fight now?"
"No, we still have to wait until that Knight flies over and lands."
"Tell me again why we don't just shoot that kid before the mech flies over and save ourselves all the trouble?"
"..... "

Yeah I just lumped those two in with the enforcers because they were essentially on their strength level.

Having all these deaths and supposed atrocities happening behind the scenes ALL. THE. TIME. is just a cop out from Falcom. I really don't know what goes on sometimes with the story telling in Trails. You had no death whatsoever in the Sky games besides Loewe and Weissman, but they managed to put in Renne's star door and backstory. Then in Cold Steel they have a few soldiers and the Celdic mayor biting the dust but they still wimper out on including more in situations that calls for it. Meanwhile they try to make us believe that these major players for the Noble Faction and Ouroborus are ruthless and menacing.

[Mistfox]

Well, I can see it if their target audience includes 8 year old kids. I think they're trying to balance between the "adult" and "kids" segment of their audience. The adults might get the behind the scenes implications that the kids might miss (and not be traumatised by). Though it does end up feeling like they're a bit condescending to the adults since we expect a bit more .... mature... storytelling.

But damn it, if they have another "enemy powerup + we've come to save you!!" scene, I'm going to break something. Once I can get. 2? Maybe. 3, 4 and 5 times, I start suspecting that your helpers were all following you all the time and were just waiting for the grand dramatic moment to jump in.

[Khar4za]

Originally posted by Akim:

I know... sometimes the story has to go one way. But it is positively annoying if you are set to NOT win in a battle by some cheat mechanic of the enemy.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Spacebar:

The antagonists are barely murderers to begin with. Of all the enforcers and Anguis Class VII fought, I'm not sure any of them legitimately killed anyone except Vulcan and Scarlet.

Cold Steel 1 opens with Class VII walking into a room full of dead soldiers lying in their own blood. This was the result of an attack which - at its most generous - was just a bluff. At it's least generous, it was an attack which was going to launch shells into a city full of civilians and most likely starting a war with the neighbouring superpower.

There's also an attack on a watchtower later on with the intended goal of starting a war between superpowers.

These attacks were carried out with the blessing and approval of one of Class VII's friends, and Class VII only seems to care about bringing that friend back so they can all be friends again.

So yeah, "too friendly with murderers and terrorists" seems accurate.

Originally posted by Mistfox:

-Summons Divine Knight-
"Can we fight now?"
"No, we still have to wait until that Knight flies over and lands."
"Tell me again why we don't just shoot that kid before the mech flies over and save ourselves all the trouble?"
"..... "

Actually I think that's because of the special shield which surrounds Rean after he calls Val. I suspect if they shot at him it would have no effect because of that shield.

[Spacebar]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

Originally posted by Spacebar:

The antagonists are barely murderers to begin with. Of all the enforcers and Anguis Class VII fought, I'm not sure any of them legitimately killed anyone except Vulcan and Scarlet.

Cold Steel 1 opens with Class VII walking into a room full of dead soldiers lying in their own blood. This was the result of an attack which - at its most generous - was just a bluff. At it's least generous, it was an attack which was going to launch shells into a city full of civilians and most likely starting a war with the neighbouring superpower.

There's also an attack on a watchtower later on with the intended goal of starting a war between superpowers.

These attacks were carried out with the blessing and approval of one of Class VII's friends, and Class VII only seems to care about bringing that friend back so they can all be friends again.

So yeah, "too friendly with murderers and terrorists" seems accurate.

I literally said in that exact part of what you quoted "Vulcan and Scarlet". Unless you want me to include Gideon since he is actually responsible for the watch tower attack and not those two? I guess Crow since he's the leader but he didn't actually kill anyone himself.

I can list a bunch of times in the Trails series where an event occurred that should have resulted in deaths but Falcom chose to ♥♥♥♥♥ out and not do it. The most egregious being Red Constellation attacking Crossbell.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Spacebar:

I literally said in that exact part of what you quoted "Vulcan and Scarlet". Unless you want me to include Gideon since he is actually responsible for the watch tower attack and not those two? I guess Crow since he's the leader but he didn't actually kill anyone himself.

All the members of ILF are complicit in the ILF's actions, including Crow and Gideon. It doesn't matter who precisely pulled the triggers. Even the foot soldiers are so committed to the cause that they would rather commit suicide before allowing themselves to be captured.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

Originally posted by Spacebar:

I literally said in that exact part of what you quoted "Vulcan and Scarlet". Unless you want me to include Gideon since he is actually responsible for the watch tower attack and not those two? I guess Crow since he's the leader but he didn't actually kill anyone himself.

All the members of ILF are complicit in the ILF's actions, including Crow and Gideon. It doesn't matter who precisely pulled the triggers. Even the foot soldiers are so committed to the cause that they would rather commit suicide before allowing themselves to be captured.

In reverse, there is also a limit to "guilty by association". You don't go to jail because a friend committed a crime. You go to jail when YOU commit a crime, either by planning or execution and in the game there are quite a significant percentage of "bad guys" who seem rather squeemish. I take it as it was something due to the "all ages" rating actually.

Unless you want a logo like "Falcom- Traumatizing Kids since 2008". lol.

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

In reverse, there is also a limit to "guilty by association". You don't go to jail because a friend committed a crime. You go to jail when YOU commit a crime, either by planning or execution and in the game there are quite a significant percentage of "bad guys" who seem rather squeemish. I take it as it was something due to the "all ages" rating actually.

That limit does not apply in this case and you know that very well.

The ILF invaded a military base, seized giant guns and prepared to fire them at a city full of civilians. They are the very definition of terrorists. They are members of an illegal terrorist organization. They absolutely are guilty by association.

In Cold Steel 1, Class VII saw the ILF's actions first-hand and were rightfully appalled by them. What's terrible is that if anyone is the most responsible, it would be the ILF leader - the guy in charge - but because that leader was their friend, they're pretending like all the terrible things done on his orders are of little importance compared to his breaking the bonds of friendship with the class.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Stabbey:

That limit does not apply in this case and you know that very well.

Don't assume that everyone thinks like you do, it ends up with misunderstandings.

For example, Clothilde, would you call her a murderer since I do not recall seeing her ever killing anybody? Or any member of Oroborus for that matter? Or Zephyr? None of them killed anyone as I can recall.

You're fixated on Crow, that I get, but if you extended the net wider, the criteria gets a lot more loose. Even Bleublanc, while being an annoying bastard, doesn't quite fit the title of Murderer. I do get that the writing for Crow was pretty bad though. I think they were trying for an "honourable enemy" but kind of missed at the degree of affection.

And talking about Crow, I really facepalmed and loled at the mismatch between his montage and the song. lol. It was supposed to be about Alisa but it ended up looking like Rean and him had a thing going on. It was hilarious.

[Stabbey]

If you notice, I specifically have been referring to the ILF.

That aside, most governments like stability, and tend to take a dim view of organizations which attempt to destabilize or overthrow them. Ouroboros has done that in both Liberl and Erebonia, probably Crossbell too, and I imagine they'll also try and screw with Calvard as well.

The fact that Falcom has decided to pretend that no one really DIES despite all the robots and jaegers and flying battleships and giant death battleships and Enforcers who get titles like "Angel of Slaughter" is more of an indictment of Falcom's writing than an excuse for pretending like Ouroboros doesn't have a reckless disregard for life.

Many of the Enforcers are self-admitted murderers, and at least two others are strongly implied to have killed people. Weissman the Anguis was a monster. Vita "broke a taboo", and it's probably more serious than "wore white after labour day".

Zephyr participated in a surprise attack in the middle of the most populated city of the empire in the middle of the day during a public speech, that's a recipe for civilian casualties, if only for stampeding deaths from people fleeing from the raging battle.

If no one actually died it was due to luck/writer fiat than out of any clear desire on the part of Ouroborous or Zephyr to avoid casualties.

And talking about Crow, I really facepalmed and loled at the mismatch between his montage and the song. lol. It was supposed to be about Alisa but it ended up looking like Rean and him had a thing going on.

I'm not clear on this. Which song are you referring to? I have one in mind, but I'm not sure if it's the same one you're thinking of.

[ZWabbit]

Being a member of the ILF constitutes in and of itself a crime. The ILF would be what's called a proscribed organization in technical terms. Much as the US government would arrest you for being a member of say a criminal gang, the Erebonian government would arrest someone for being a member of the ILF. That Crow's involvement as one of the ILF's outright leaders gets handwaved by Class VII in CS2 makes Rean and co look either headbashingly naive or almost criminally selfish. The people that Crow hurt, whether directly or because his actions caused the deaths of their loved ones, are deserving of justice. It is not Rean or Class VII's call on whether Crow should escape the judicial consequences of his actions.