Game is great... but then Leonard shows up.

[Ibzan]

4 hours in and the game is amazing so far. Art is great. Endings are hot. Local multiplayer. Music is sweet (okay, maybe except that night track with screaming samples) Jokes are hilarious. Characters are interesting. I can be gay. I can chose my pronouns. Everything's awesome.

But then Leonard shows up and things get weird. I'm suddenly reading some sort of... political caricature? Misogyny, SJW, diversity, femnazis, freedom of speech and helicopters. It's painful to read. All thightly packed into one ugly snide kappa guy. I think I missed the joke. I can only see hate. Hate of anonymous internet nerds towards change. And hate of the writers towards anonymous internet nerds.

Long story short: Leonard is a toxic character that makes this great game awkward to recommend.

Or am I just too sensitive about this? Let me know what you think. How do you feel about Leonard?

[Caveman with a flaming stick]

Leonard kinda ruined Zoe as a character for me (and by extension the DLC because I brought it specifically for Zoe). I loved Zoe's appearance in the normal game as a secret ending character and was super hyped when I saw they were a character in an upcoming DLC so I of course purchased it as soon as it was available.

Sadly I found many of my interactions with Zoe to be swamped with Leonard showing up and completely ruining the tone of the game. To me there were all of these strange and wonderful characters all lovable in their own way, each with their own fun and to them logical solutions to fun and quirky problems presented by them after they show up and explain the situation.
Then there's Leonard who from my recollection only seemed to show up to hate on Zoe. With other characters' choices and encounters they need your help solving a problem whether its serious or just serious to them, such as the proper knife to use when eating, or the best way to party. With Leonard's encounters the encounters just seemed to be "which is the best way to tell Leonard he is wrong and to **** off".

Now I'll admit I haven't played Monprom in over a year and I never played much of the DLC because of these encounters, so I'm a little less sure of how many of them play out or go, although I'm sure the tone is the same and can be found amongst the many other responses here, but even outside of the encounters he seems to just be a character of hate and I understand he's made to be such a deplorable character on purpose, but I struggle to understand why he needed to be as such. Sure have a rude and ****ish character, but have him be a well rounded one, or even have him be someone we can get on with or agree with sometimes, have him be someone who can change his harsh beliefs or even lessen them in some occasions to find a common ground if you insist on making a political statement with your game.

None of the other characters I found in the game had such hate in them, the closest example I can think of outside of Leonard is the huntress (or whatever she's called) and even then she doesn't seem to hate the characters she's trying to kill, and even if she does it's nowhere near the level of Leonard.

TL:dr

Leonard is unecessarily a being of pure hatred and it ruined my encounters with Zoe, the whole reason I brought the DLC in the first place.

[YSR715]

Escrito originalmente por uvtears:

Wow. Definitely not getting the DLC after... this entire thread. I liked Zoe's secret ending, but I had no idea that she's just a living metaphor for transgenderism. I thought she was just... being a rebellious teen by not being Z'Gord? Sigh. I'm sick of characters having to heft the burden of an entire social movement and have no actual personalities. Sounds like every event with her involves having to prove herself, and that's not fun.

Also, the person who said that the base game didn't have as much social justice/politics isn't totally wrong. I've spent the last three days playing 30 hours of this game -- yes, I have a problem -- and while the devs' liberal views are definitely there in Vera's feminism and Damien's gender role-defying ambitions (as well as being a gayby, not sure if that's offensive), they're not obelisks/totems of these qualities. They're also fun, crazy, bloodthirsty, either severely intelligent or idiotic, creative, and ... monsters. (I would say people, but y'know)

They're not there to remind us that games can be progressive. Monster Prom is progressive in so many ways already, just letting you play however you want, as whoever you want. Hell, I didn't even notice Vera was a feminist until I got into Liam's routes. She just struck me as an ambitious go-getting medusa, lol.

But if they're going all out with not only the four-chan (EDIT: it's bleeped! that website gets bleeped!) idiots in "Leonard", but creating ridiculously political events and making Zoe nothing more than a symbol of being trans, count me out. I can go to Reddit's nastier subs or read the comment section on a video with Trump in it to get my fill of social justice.

And for what it's worth, if you can't tell, I'm a moderate liberal and bisexual (which okay, you can't tell that, not unless you snoop through my games). I just don't think that we should always have to be talking about the good fight. Comrades can get a rest and play a stupid-sexy dating sim once in a while, yeah? :consolepuss: :monsterlove:

Her being Trans is mention only a few times

the rest of her story is about being a weeb and fangirl of anime with leonard as her foil

hell the fact she eats people is mention more than her being trans! She drives people insane talking about Eva for 8 hours, draws porn out random objects she ships

yeah Vera is a feminist

Damien like drag culture

Polly reads Russian Lit

its called character depth

most of the people crying about leonard are because they're bigots, like wtf are you going to do with the sequel since two of the ROs are nonbinary? gonna cry?

[YSR715]

Escrito originalmente por Lord Bepsi:

Leonard kinda ruined Zoe as a character for me (and by extension the DLC because I brought it specifically for Zoe). I loved Zoe's appearance in the normal game as a secret ending character and was super hyped when I saw they were a character in an upcoming DLC so I of course purchased it as soon as it was available.

Sadly I found many of my interactions with Zoe to be swamped with Leonard showing up and completely ruining the tone of the game. To me there were all of these strange and wonderful characters all lovable in their own way, each with their own fun and to them logical solutions to fun and quirky problems presented by them after they show up and explain the situation.
Then there's Leonard who from my recollection only seemed to show up to hate on Zoe. With other characters' choices and encounters they need your help solving a problem whether its serious or just serious to them, such as the proper knife to use when eating, or the best way to party. With Leonard's encounters the encounters just seemed to be "which is the best way to tell Leonard he is wrong and to **** off".

Now I'll admit I haven't played Monprom in over a year and I never played much of the DLC because of these encounters, so I'm a little less sure of how many of them play out or go, although I'm sure the tone is the same and can be found amongst the many other responses here, but even outside of the encounters he seems to just be a character of hate and I understand he's made to be such a deplorable character on purpose, but I struggle to understand why he needed to be as such. Sure have a rude and ****ish character, but have him be a well rounded one, or even have him be someone we can get on with or agree with sometimes, have him be someone who can change his harsh beliefs or even lessen them in some occasions to find a common ground if you insist on making a political statement with your game.

None of the other characters I found in the game had such hate in them, the closest example I can think of outside of Leonard is the huntress (or whatever she's called) and even then she doesn't seem to hate the characters she's trying to kill, and even if she does it's nowhere near the level of Leonard.

TL:dr

Leonard is unecessarily a being of pure hatred and it ruined my encounters with Zoe, the whole reason I brought the DLC in the first place.

I would love for you to explain how he can be Well rounded without just admiting you thing being gay is a sin or something racist. Because the averge chud is that terrible, not my problem it makes you question your views

Her name is Aavavi, funny enough she's super popular seeing how the creator of Helltaker clearly used her as a base for some of the devils

and is an Camp Ro