My thoughts on the Leonard issue

[Pumpkin Spice]

Hey all. I absolutely love this game and everything about it, with the exception of one certain green kappa ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that everyone has been hating on for the past few weeks after Second Term released. And I mostly agree with what has been said before. Yes, he's supposed to be an annoying parody hatesink of the stereotypical right wing internet nerd, but I think the writers went a bit too far. Every time he shows up i cringe because I know the playthrough is about to come to a screeching halt so Leonard can screech about "something something gender politics" or "blah blah thinly veiled Last Jedi criticism rejection" or something of the sort, and then the other characters cease to be real people and just become soapbox ranters talking about how these people deserve to literally burn in hell for all eternity and usually inflicting bodily harm on Leonard. I don't want to get political (which is precisely what I see wrong with this whole situation), but it's just too much for me and is having me considering telling my friends who play this game not to buy the DLC. I just don't want this otherwise pretty light hearted game get bogged down by toxic current year political issues and thus lose a lot of its charm and humor. It's not like I agree with Leonard, Zoe is my favorite love interest and I happen to know two trans people and I am fully accepting of their ideals and sympathetic to them, despite not being trans myself (i know Zoe technically isnt trans but come on, the subtext is blindingly obvious). I don't ask for Leonard removed from the game, since the devs put so much time into this game, and it's kinda late to just remove a character from a game as big as this one is. I just worry for the future of this game, if the writing for the other future updates that theoretically are to come continue to include or reduce to the writing level of this one obnoxious and toxic character.

TL:DR because I can't format or edit long posts well
I agree that Leonard is a problematic character for this game, but for more nuanced reasons than people have been debating about.

I just edited it to fix formatting. My words remain unchanged.

[Samhain]

Leonard exists because some people, like the hypocrite that made the thread that ended up getting locked, need to be brought down a few pegs.

[Pumpkin Spice]

Originally posted by SpookyBeef7:

Leonard exists because some people, like the hypocrite that made the thread that ended up getting locked, need to be brought down a few pegs.

I understand that, but I just think they went too far. I just feel like he drags the game down from being fun to just uncomfortable, and that's not the fault of the ideas that went into him, just the final writing and execution. I don't think its impossible to pull something like that off, but it just didnt work out right in this case.

[Belgen Gunther]

Leonard is just a ♥♥♥♥ and messing with a ♥♥♥♥ is fun af.

[CeeCeeObscura]

i can see how he can definitely be problematic, people like him IRL really irritate me and make me angry but its just a fake character and i dont take what he says literally. take it with a grain of salt. i know not everyone has the same mindset as me and could very well possibly let this effect them and how they view the game but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe if they toned it down a little it would be better for other people who do have a big issue with leonard? i dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Pumpkin Spice]

Originally posted by CeeCeeObscura:

i can see how he can definitely be problematic, people like him IRL really irritate me and make me angry but its just a fake character and i dont take what he says literally. take it with a grain of salt. i know not everyone has the same mindset as me and could very well possibly let this effect them and how they view the game but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe if they toned it down a little it would be better for other people who do have a big issue with leonard? i dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, i have no issue with Leonard in concept but I just thought he was kinda poorly written so that he came off as just a strawman that only exists to make political commentary as opposed to a well written and funny stereotype like some of the other characters.

[Morian]

I got the game yesterday, so this is some interesting things to look forward to, I suppose?

I play it alone, but is it fun playing with others? I only have one other friend who has this game, but don't really play with him

[YSR715]

the devs have stated Zoe's trans like its not even subtle, there needs to be a pride event just so she can run away with a trans flag at this point

he's there because thats someone trans people have to deal with daliy

[Pumpkin Spice]

Originally posted by YSR715:

the devs have stated Zoe's trans like its not even subtle, there needs to be a pride event just so she can run away with a trans flag at this point

he's there because thats someone trans people have to deal with daliy

Oh, i thought that it was just a metaphor, with the whole Z'gord Zoe thing. I stand corrected. Once again, no problem with any of that in concept but it just seems too topical/policital statement-ey in its execution. I came to this game for laughs, not poorly written strawman debates over transgender politics.

[YSR715]

Originally posted by Bumbling Baseball Boi:

Originally posted by YSR715:

the devs have stated Zoe's trans like its not even subtle, there needs to be a pride event just so she can run away with a trans flag at this point

he's there because thats someone trans people have to deal with daliy

Oh, i thought that it was just a metaphor, with the whole Z'gord Zoe thing. I stand corrected. Once again, no problem with any of that in concept but it just seems too topical/policital statement-ey in its execution. I came to this game for laughs, not poorly written strawman debates over transgender politics.

yeah, its a lot of stuff
she calls "Z'gord" a dead name, Vara says "its sisters not cis-ters" talks about pronouns and being part of a marginatized group (Zoe is more than likely "black" as well seeing how she's a massive jab at Lovecrafts bigotty), voiced by a trans woman, so yeah

gets called a trap, ect

its not poorly written if its how some anti sjw talks now is it

i laugh when he gets set on fire for calling Zoe a trap and saying its his right to deadname her

[brookeoliver96]

I would be annoyed by Leonard if I got the same pandering vibes I did with the empowered women scene at the end of Endgame. But I know that's not the case here- I've always felt even before Leonard that the creators behind Monster Prom are very passionate about certain social issues/injustices, especially in the LGBTQ community. I really feel that they wanted to show their passion in their art, which is this game, by showing what a person who is a part of these social injustices is in his true colors.

[Rakka]

dont like it dont play, leonard

[YSR715]

Originally posted by brookeoliver96:

I would be annoyed by Leonard if I got the same pandering vibes I did with the empowered women scene at the end of Endgame. But I know that's not the case here- I've always felt even before Leonard that the creators behind Monster Prom are very passionate about certain social issues/injustices, especially in the LGBTQ community. I really feel that they wanted to show their passion in their art, which is this game, by showing what a person who is a part of these social injustices is in his true colors.

and you'll be right

the head dev is pretty active on discord and route zoe and damien main serect endings because those are things he's struggle with

[mogege]

honestly, I really like Leonard. I know that most in the community hate him, however, I would like him to be a possible love interest. yes, his cameo was created on "political" and "racist" Internet jokes, but as practice shows, such "sigma-incels" with proper treatment and care turn into one of the sweetest and most caring guys.