Rock-y Controls! :(

[PhilyFooFighter]

I explained this well in my review for MM11, so I'm going to copy and paste it here:

The control set-up is significantly different than previous titles in both the Classic MegaMan series and also the MegaMan X series. I am happy MegaMan's back, but what's the point of playing if the controls hamper the player's ability to do so?

Unlike in all previous games of Classic MegaMan, Rush Coil and Rush Jet CANNOT be mapped to the same button as other weapons and must be assigned separate buttons (including from one another) or not at all.
Other than control sticks and the d-pad, most controllers have the following buttons:
Start,
Select,
L1 and R1 (and sometimes L2 and R2),
And the four "main" buttons of square (X), cross (A), circle (B), and triangle (Y).

In MegaMan 11, The Power Gear and Speed Gear as well as the Previous Weapon and Subsequent Weapon toggles are reasonably mapped to L1 and R1 and L2 and R2 by default, but there are also six other non-movement functions: shoot/charge, jump, slide, shoot rapid-fire, Rush Coil, and Rush Jet. But (other than Start and Select) there are only four other buttons these functions can be assigned to. To its credit, the game does allow sliding by pushing the 'jump' button while pressing 'down' on the d-pad at the same time, but it is much more comfortable to assign 'slide' to one of the four main buttons, like how the 'dash' function is assigned in the MegaMan X series.

In MegaMan 11 the player can call Rush even when his special-energy gauge does not appear on screen! Rush Coil and Rush Jet now use the same special energy, and the special-energy bar that allows players to see how much of Rush's special energy is left is only visible when MegaMan is in "normal style" (i.e. when he does not have a special weapon equipped). This keeps the screen from becoming cluttered, which is a good thing, but the player ISN'T able to see how much special energy is left for Rush abilities if a special weapon is equipped; yet the player can still call Rush when MegaMan is equipped with a special weapon, automatically unequipping the special weapon, which if Rush's special energy turns out to be low may in the heat of battle prove to be a disastrous mistake!

The controls feel like a big step back from MegaMan 9 and MegaMan 10 in which all special weapons and in-game functions were accessible without pausing the game. The Rush abilities are realistically still special weapons just like in previous classic MegaMan games, and they still have a special-energy gauge and take special energy, so pressing the same button to use special weapons as to use one of the abilities like in earlier games would have made more sense and seems more intuitive.

Plus, why bother to map Rush Coil to a button by default if Rush Jet does not have a button by default? If players such as speed-runners like the option of being able to call Rush at all times, that's fine, but I prefer not being able to de-equip my special weapons needlessly or by mistake. Again, I do like how the player can use Rush abilities with "normal" MegaMan now, but without the freedom to freely assign which button I want to press to use my special weapons the new control scheme remains finicky. In any case, making both Rush abilities separate from special weapons has crowded out other functions such as 'rapid-fire' and 'slide', which was not the case in past MegaMan titles; this has hampered me so much that I have resorted to only calling Rush by means of the in-game menu, which defeats the point of making the other abilities accessible and slows game-play down unnecessarily.

Even though MegaMan also has the ability to metamorphose into different 'styles' just like in the MegaMan Battle Network games rather than just causing him to palette swap, a change which is very cool, this new ability doesn't affect the game's mechanics in the slightest. The styles make me feel motivated to complete a stage with the same special weapon equipped, but using 'rapid-fire' automatically unequips special weapons just like calling Rush does, plus MegaMan reverts back to normal anyway if his equipped weapon runs out of ammo, so it becomes impossible to complete a stage with a single style if the special weapon runs out of its special energy. Ideally, it would be preferable to allow the player to keep the equipped special weapon even if there is no ammo left for it, allowing the player to survive with buster shots until MegaMan picks up more special energy for the equipped weapon (after all, any special energy MegaMan finds normally goes towards his currently equipped special weapon if he has one equipped). Doing so would also show how MegaMan's metamorphoses have a positive impact upon game-play beyond their visual appeal by allowing MegaMan to more easily maintain his special weapons.

As for the controls, a better set-up would be similar to the controls of MegaMan X4, which gave the 'special weapon' function its own button and allowed the X-buster to be used with a special weapon still equipped alongside the two other functions of jumping and dashing: four functions for four buttons. As I mentioned, MegaMan 11's has many separate functions but only four buttons to use for them. Even so, a new set-up for MegaMan 11 could look something like this:

MegaMan (no special weapon equipped):
1 (square/X) > Shoot and charge buster
2 (cross/A) > Jump
3 (circle/B) > Rush Jet or Slide
4 (triangle/Y) > Rush Coil or Shoot rapid-fire buster

MegaMan (special weapon equipped):
1 (square/X) > Shoot and charge buster or Shoot special weapon
2 (cross/A) > Jump or Shoot special weapon
3 (circle/B) > Rush Jet (auto-unequips the current special weapon) or Slide or Shoot special weapon
4 (triangle/Y) > Rush Coil (auto-unequips the current special weapon) or Shoot rapid-fire buster or Shoot special weapon

The 'Shoot special weapon' function, when equipped, would take precedence over whichever other function is assigned to the same button, and this set-up has the additional benefit of allowing MegaMan to fire buster shots with a special weapon still equipped similar to the controls in MegaMan X4; if balancing becomes an issue as a result, perhaps the charge shot could be reduced one level while a special weapon is equipped (similar to how only a small "partial" charge shot was ever possible in MegaMan 4). If players prefer mapping 'Rush Coil' and 'Rush Jet' to buttons, perhaps 'rapid-fire' could also be achieved with 'jump' + 'up' on the d-pad, just like 'slide' can be done with 'jump' + 'down' on the d-pad, or alternatively as I would prefer 'Rush Coil' could be 'jump' + 'up' and 'Rush Jet' could be 'jump' + 'down', and 'rapid fire' and 'slide' could instead be assigned to buttons.

I sincerely hope that in an update Capcom gives players greater freedom to change the control scheme in the options' menu, such as the ability to assign the ability to shoot special weapons to the same button as either Rush Coil or Rush Jet: They did after all share the same button in past games of the series. It would also be very welcome if MegaMan could fire buster shots while having special weapons equipped. For now I am too frustrated with the new control scheme to be able to progress any farther in the game. (Ironically, as I said, I haven't had any trouble with the Speed Gear and Power Gear controls.) I've never had issues with the controls of a game I haven't been able to fix by means of the options' menu before, and I was greatly looking forward to this game so the wonkiness of the new controls was a huge disappointment to me. I hope my comment is able to draw attention to these issues; nevertheless, I am happy other people have found enjoyment in the game.

So, has anyone else had similar thoughts? F.y.i. I have used a PlayStation and an SNES controller.

[Jcsonic]

i personally use rush coil on triangle, jet on circle, jump with X (including the slide by inputting down + X) shoot with square, L1 for power gear, R1 for speed gear, left control stick to move, right control stick to choose weapons, pressing the right control stick to get back to normal, and R2 for rapid-fire....the only button i remapped was the rapid-fire, other than that these controls are the best i've used in any megaman game to date, as i did a speedrun of finishing this game in under an hour and in that entire run i never paused the game once, and i used all weapons and rush coil/jet

[Nali]

Use the right stick to select weapons. It's never been faster or easier to hotswap between every attack and function available, and it frees up two of the shoulder buttons to boot.

[PhilyFooFighter]

@Jcsonic Hey, thanks so much for offering your input, Jcsonic! :D I'm glad you like the game! So I've tried the set-up you're using, and what I don't like about it is that the 'slide' button is then the awkward combination of 'jump' + 'down' on the d-pad. I very much prefer my 'slide' button to be circle, just like 'dash' is circle in the X series. I also like 'rapid fire' being triangle and that's what I've used in the past classic series games. What I liked about MM9 and MM10 is that they made switching to the menu to change special weapons optional, since the player can toggle the special weapons with the L and R buttons. In those games, Rush Coil and Rush Jet worked just like other special weapons so there was no issue, but making each a separate function from special weapons means that 'rapid-fire' and 'slide' become extremely inconvenient, or otherwise the Rush abilities do because the player replaces them with 'slide' and 'rapid-fire' via the options' menu. :/

[PhilyFooFighter]

@Sciz Yo, what's up? xD I don't think the two sets (or one set in the case of the SNES controller) of shoulder buttons are useful for any functions other than activating the two Gear powers and toggling the special weapons.

One thing that I find really annoying which I mentioned in my review is how calling Rush for either Rush Coil and Rush Jet causes MegaMan to automatically unequip the current special weapon. I feel like it defeats the point of giving the Rush abilities their own buttons.

[Jcsonic]

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

@Sciz Yo, what's up? xD I don't think the two sets (or one set in the case of the SNES controller) of shoulder buttons are useful for anything in-game other than the two Gear powers and toggling the special weapons.

One thing that I find really annoying which I mentioned in my review is how calling Rush for either Rush Coil and Rush Jet causes MegaMan to automatically unequip the current special weapon. I feel like it defeats the point of giving the Rush abilities their own buttons.

it gives them their own buttons to be able to call them without ever pausing the game, you would not believe how much speedrunners love this, also, having rush and and immediately unequip the other weapon is i thing a balancing thing, wouldn't you think it would make it utterly broken to equip the power version of the acid barrier (which defeats enemies and bullets upon contact) and rush jet at the same time?, it would literally break the game

[Jcsonic]

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

@Jcsonic Hey, thanks so much for offering your input, Jcsonic! :D I'm glad you like the game! So I've tried the set-up you're using, and what I don't like about it is that the 'slide' button is then the awkward combination of 'jump' + 'down' on the d-pad. I very much prefer my 'slide' button to be circle, just like 'dash' is circle in the X series. I also like 'rapid fire' being triangle and that's what I've used in the past classic series games. What I liked about MM9 and MM10 is that they made switching to the menu to change special weapons optional, since the player can toggle the special weapons with the L and R buttons. In those games, Rush Coil and Rush Jet worked just like other special weapons so there was no issue, but making each a separate function from special weapons means that 'rapid-fire' and 'slide' become extremely inconvenient, or otherwise the Rush abilities do because the player replaces them with 'slide' and 'rapid-fire' via the options' menu. :/

just map the rus jet and coil to L2 and R2, i tried remapping each button and it worked flawlessly, i don't see your issue

[PhilyFooFighter]

I very much prefer the controls of MegaMan X4, which were as follows:
1 (square/X) > Shoot/charge equipped weapon
2 (cross/A) > Jump
3 (circle/B) > Dash
4 (triangle/Y) > Shoot buster (even with special weapon equipped)

These could be adapted to MegaMan 11 as follows:
1 (square/X) > Shoot/charge equipped weapon
2 (cross/A) > Jump
3 (circle/B) > Slide
4 (trangle/Y) > Shoot rapid-fire buster (even with special weapon equipped)

'Rush Coil' could be 'jump'+'up' on the d-pad and Rush Jet could be 'jump'+'down' on the d-pad.

What I like about this set-up this reduces the likelihood of accidentally calling Rush and unequipping special weapons.

Thoughts anyone? Is there something I'm overlooking here? I'd appreciate any feedback.

[Jcsonic]

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

I very much prefer the controls of MegaMan X4, which were as follows:
1 (square/X) > Shoot/charge equipped weapon
2 (cross/A) > Jump
3 (circle/B) > Dash
4 (triangle/Y) > Shoot buster (even with special weapon equipped)

These could be adapted to MegaMan 11 as follows:
1 (square/X) > Shoot/charge equipped weapon
2 (cross/A) > Jump
3 (circle/B) > Slide
4 (trangle/Y) > Shoot rapid-fire buster (even with special weapon equipped)

'Rush Coil' could be 'jump'+'up' on the d-pad and Rush Jet could be 'jump'+'down' on the d-pad.

What I like about this set-up this reduces the likelihood of accidentally calling Rush and unequipping special weapons.

Thoughts anyone? Is there something I'm overlooking here? I'd appreciate any feedback.

one issue tho....what if people want to use the pad to platform, or alternate between the 2?

[PhilyFooFighter]

Also, remember that Rush abilities don't count as special weapons now, so they can't be toggled to by cycling through the special weapons.

Originally posted by Jcsonic:

having rush and and immediately unequip the other weapon is i thing a balancing thing, wouldn't you think it would make it utterly broken to equip the power version of the acid barrier (which defeats enemies and bullets upon contact) and rush jet at the same time?, it would literally break the game

I don't see the problem of losing the special weapons when using Rush per se, but I don't think they should be easily called out accidentally and I also think that the game shouldn't force players to have to call out Rush via a separate function if they don't want to. There's no ability to change this in options without reducing Rush abilities to only being able to be utlized by returning to the menu. Honestly, I wouldn't even mind being forced to revert to "normal" no-special-weapon-equipped MegaMan to use Rush abilities as long as it didn't get in the way of using my special weapons when I have special weapons equipped.

Originally posted by Jcsonic:

just map the rus jet and coil to L2 and R2, i tried remapping each button and it worked flawlessly, i don't see your issue

Using L and R for Rush Coil and Rush Jet makes it too easy to accidentally call Rush when I'm trying to use the Power Gear or Speed Gear! xD

[BorfStyle]

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

Plus, why bother to map Rush Coil to a button by default if Rush Jet does not have a button by default? If players such as speed-runners like the option of being able to call Rush at all times, that's fine, but I prefer not being able to de-equip my special weapons needlessly or by mistake.

Rush Jet does have it's own button. And how often are you actually de-equipping a weapon on accident because of Rush? That seems like such a petty complaint.

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

One thing that I find really annoying which I mentioned in my review is how calling Rush for either Rush Coil and Rush Jet causes MegaMan to automatically unequip the current special weapon. I feel like it defeats the point of giving the Rush abilities their own buttons.

I don't understand how this is bad, or any different than how previous MM games handled your active weapon. When have you ever been able to call a Rush ability while you have another weapon equipped, and still keep that weapon equipped? Having Rush get his own button saves you having to switch to it, or open the menu and select it in older titles.

[PhilyFooFighter]

one issue tho....what if people want to use the pad to platform, or alternate between the 2?

I hear you, Jcsonic. I prefer using the SNES controller myself. I don't think it interferes with using the d-pad for movement, because nobody ever presses 'up' or 'down' and 'jump' at the same time: they only use 'left' and 'right' plus sometimes 'jump' for movement and 'up' and 'down' by themselves to climb ladders.

[Jcsonic]

i honestly have no idea what your issue is, i have never had a single issue with these buttons and have never pressed or activated a feature like the double gear or rush by accident, everything is quick and flawless, all i had to remap was rapid fire to R2, having rapid fire to triangle makes it too hard to jump and hold it down at the game time, and slide to circle makes it too hard to hold down my charge shot while sliding

[Jcsonic]

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

one issue tho....what if people want to use the pad to platform, or alternate between the 2?

I hear you, Jcsonic. I prefer using the SNES controller myself. I don't think it interferes with using the d-pad for movement, because nobody ever presses 'up' or 'down' and 'jump' at the same time: they only use 'left' and 'right' plus sometimes 'jump' for movement and 'up' and 'down' by themselves to climb ladders.

i have played all megaman games in a marathon and in all of them you can't remap slide to a singular button, correct me if i'm wrong but i am certain at least in the NES games, all those games you had to press down and jump at the same time to slide.......and you were never able to have rush equipped while also having your weapon equipped at the same time, in any game, only in megaman 8 could you fire your normal shots while having a weapon equipped, this was changed in this game to be able to switch weapons, slide, rapid-fire, use double gear, and use both Rush's functions without ever pausing the game, so again, i don't see your issue in the slightest.

[PhilyFooFighter]

Originally posted by BorfStyle:

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

Plus, why bother to map Rush Coil to a button by default if Rush Jet does not have a button by default? If players such as speed-runners like the option of being able to call Rush at all times, that's fine, but I prefer not being able to de-equip my special weapons needlessly or by mistake.

Rush Jet does have it's own button. And how often are you actually de-equipping a weapon on accident because of Rush? That seems like such a petty complaint.

Welcome to the discussion, BorfStyle! :)

It doesn't happen anymore since I decided to unassign buttons for 'Rush Coil' and 'Rush Jet', using circle for 'slide' and triangle for 'jump' instead, but this is a big step back from MM9 and MM10 in which I could use circle for 'slide' and triangle for 'rapid-fire' while also not having to go back to the menu to use Rush abilities like I have to do for MM11. So it's a d***** if I do, d***** if I don't kind of situation. xD Regardless, I've stopped playing the game now altogether.

Originally posted by PhilyFooFighter:

One thing that I find really annoying which I mentioned in my review is how calling Rush for either Rush Coil and Rush Jet causes MegaMan to automatically unequip the current special weapon. I feel like it defeats the point of giving the Rush abilities their own buttons.

I don't understand how this is bad, or any different than how previous MM games handled your active weapon. When have you ever been able to call a Rush ability while you have another weapon equipped, and still keep that weapon equipped? Having Rush get his own button saves you having to switch to it, or open the menu and select it in older titles. [/quote]
In previous games such as MM9 and MM10, because Rush abilities were both themselves special weapons the player could toggle to them using L and R and no other weapon would be active at the same time. In MM11 it is now possible to call Rush while having a special weapon equipped which automatically unequips the special weapon and can happen by mistake; I'd rather have the option to have to revert to MegaMan without special weapons before I could use Rush abilities, since it's not like I can see how much special energy is left for Rush abilities without being "normal" MegaMan anyway.

[Jcsonic]

like i said, you can indeed map slide and rapid fire to triangle and circle, and keep rush coil and jet to L2 and R2, really easy, if you confuse them for the double gear then does this mean you have been changing your weapons by accident since L2 and R2 change your weapons by default?