THIS is supposed to be the best in the series?

[ArcDnB]

Awful combat system and a first boss that's basically unbeatable.

[Make]

It really depends on tastes, but the general consensus is:
- Abyss has the best story and characters, but suffered from weaker hardware (PS2) and wasn't polished properly (anniversary title curse).
- Graces F has the best battle system, but has the worst characters and story.
- Vesperia and Symphonia are the best for all around experiences in terms of polish.
- Destiny R is the best 2D Tales game.

[Doom_Cookies]

Not supposed to be, is.

The wolf boss, right? That boss is an anomaly. I'm still convinced that they made it so difficult on purpose to sell the +5 Level Ups DLCs. In the original release, they had cost...I think it was $3 per? Just turn the difficulty setting down a notch for that specific boss to have a more consistent difficulty curve. Or take control of Rita, use Fireball until it shoots at least 2 projectiles, and control her to spam that during the fight.

Edit: That's not the first real boss. Not even the second one. Whoops.

The combat system is naturally showing its age. For its time, in a JRPG, it was phenomenal. It's still a very good fun combat system even today, but it takes some time to flesh out. You'll occasionally unlock new mechanics until you're roughly halfway through the game, and your ability to combo artes together will dramatically increase and character-specific mechanics will unlock throughout the game via learnable skills on weapons.

[CypressHillNo1]

First boss is against Zagi which shouldnt be hard (unless you playing on Hard difficoulty). Gattuso (which you refered as a wolf) is the 3rd actual boss. Gattuso isnt that difficoult (except for the secret mission). He is only annoying.

Topic:
Every boss is beatable. If you feel overwhelmed then play on Easy difficoulty first. Make sure to read the Tutorial (which shouldnt be hard to understand i hope). Make sure to keep on use the block as it can help you surviving longer. Dnt rush to hard in this game take it slow and collect as much you can find in this game.
The DLCs arent required to beat the game at all (unless you want to collect the achievements which is helpful).

[DAVOS CENSORSHIP 2030 FTW!!!]

Every single Tales out there can be bruteforced because it has a Level System and Recovery Items. Modern Tales are Easy as Hell for JRPG, specially the ones that came after Xillia. This is still one of the Old School Ones.

[Hurkyl]

One thing I've noticed from watching lots of lets plays/streamers is that if early combat is too easy -- e.g. you can get through by spamming one button and not really engaging with any of the combat mechanics -- then a lot of people learn that combat is supposed to be easy and they don't really have to engage with it.

Then, they have a bad experience because they don't really adjust as the game starts demanding more from them: they still expect to be able to play without really engaging with the battle system and get frustrated because it's no longer working.

(and this is exacerbated because they partially import their expectations from other games that are really easy)

I'm on the side that, if a game is going to expect you to eventually develop some amount of combat proficiency, then it's good design to have difficult fights early on to set that expectation.

(same deal with other game mechanics that start off too trivially)

[Toad4Life]

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

Not supposed to be, is.

The wolf boss, right? That boss is an anomaly. I'm still convinced that they made it so difficult on purpose to sell the +5 Level Ups DLCs. In the original release, they had cost...I think it was $3 per? Just turn the difficulty setting down a notch for that specific boss to have a more consistent difficulty curve. Or take control of Rita, use Fireball until it shoots at least 2 projectiles, and control her to spam that during the fight.

Edit: That's not the first real boss. Not even the second one. Whoops.

The combat system is naturally showing its age. For its time, in a JRPG, it was phenomenal. It's still a very good fun combat system even today, but it takes some time to flesh out. You'll occasionally unlock new mechanics until you're roughly halfway through the game, and your ability to combo artes together will dramatically increase and character-specific mechanics will unlock throughout the game via learnable skills on weapons.

You're saying I have to play half the game for it to it good?

[Devi]

Its maybe even worse, the game is setup in memoria of good old hardcore jrpgs, you grind through story in full easy mode till level 60+,finish of last boss, then you can decide to go for postgame content. There are 2 dungeons with tough stuff and superior equipment. Alot titles with skins, more tough enemies. At this point you will start to understand the fighting system, read skills and use them properly. This was meant to be fun back then. Putting in those hours to see you growing in skills with your character. There are several mechanics supporting this feeling. Artes change by usage, hidden altered artes, hidden specials. But there is another route even more old school. You go for new game plus. You will use your grade to buy stuff that should be in the base game, but it is locked for hardcore tales fans. I am 100h into the game. Like 80h for first playthrough then i got double xp unknown difficulty (very hard) and records + inventory transfer. 99 item stock instead of 15 helps too, double gald would be fine but was too poor, i went for double drops and will sell monster parts. And tbh its the perfect experience. Every fight is tough. Not blocking means losing 70% hp. New area?lets check out what enemies are capable of. We are playing 3 characters and 1Ai and its spamming life bottles and gels. Every skill matters, sometimes we change skills every second fight because its not working out. Before you went for any fancy skill. Now theres guard+ or backstep, or some artechanging? Its the way jprgs are meant to be played if you really love the game. If you dont like it that much you will stop after first ending, butif you go for completion you get 400h gameplay+ true ending + skins + sidestories +Grinding + arte combining and aloooot fights out of this game. In the end tales of games are only different to other games because of the fighting system, for others it seems dull but i can sit all day and beat up monsters with 2 pals while getting better with my char and slowly progressing story, arte mastery and skill system.

Another reason im so scared of Arise popularity... We will lose Multiplayer and complex battles to statisfy gamers who have to wait for the next FF and just stop by to finish 40h Tales of x speedrun.

[Unseen]

It is not the best tales least imo. One of the most artistically visual tales however. The graphics for their style even beat out newer rpgs imo.

That said, you really cannot make a judgement off the first boss. I beat the game and the reason why I say its not the best, or anywhere near the best tales is storyline. The storyline is awful and IDC who loves it. That's fine we all like things but for me the story just isn't inspiring, clever, well thought out, or basically anything. Its a i guess edgy guy saying huh all the time and wandering around a city looking for his lost kids. Its all over the place and doesn't have a set narration there is no big struggle like seperoth. They just introduce threats or badguys outa nowhere, then move on. Till you argue with a frienmy.

Please stop making judgments on a game as soon as you play it. If that was the case I would of never discovered how amazing a game tales of zestiria is. Cause by the start of zestiria you'd think it was 2 stock anime boys archaeological adventures. But that game picks up a lot and is probably my 2nd or 1st fav tales. I have beat some of the oldschool ones and symphonia so I'm not a tales newb. Zestiria is just a great rpg that doesn't get enough praise and gets unfairly judged. Least beat a game before you say its bad.

Vesperia isn't a bad game at all, it just has a really bad illogical nowhere storyline. The storyline is so bad that playing new game plus i just skip everything besides new skits. Its just bad, it was bad the first time. Even watching the scenes for a little while makes my head hurt just how weird these people act towards each other and their general situation which is all focused around blastia (think materia in FF7).

[nursesharky]

no offense, but what do you mean unbeatable? i assume youre talking about zagi, right? hes a little tricky at first, you just need to hit him right after he attacks so you have time. if youre having trouble i suggest you fight more of those knights before going into flynn's room so you level up and get the upper hand.
tales games arent for everyone, but like every game, you will get used to it over time. you can also change the character youre playing as if you dont like yuri's playstyle. just cuz you dont like it doesnt mean a game is awful hahaha

[Unseen]

But why do so many people dislike zestiria? Granted it's a lot different than other tales but it's a great rpg. If anything they should of made it it's own series.

It's sold berseria for me I'd just like to finish this and zestiria first. I also like this game for the graphics and battle system. The battle system shines a lot more towards the end when you get full party (flynn/raven/judy).

[Doom_Cookies]

Originally posted by Toad4Life:

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

The combat system is naturally showing its age. For its time, in a JRPG, it was phenomenal. It's still a very good fun combat system even today, but it takes some time to flesh out. You'll occasionally unlock new mechanics until you're roughly halfway through the game, and your ability to combo artes together will dramatically increase and character-specific mechanics will unlock throughout the game via learnable skills on weapons.

You're saying I have to play half the game for it to it good?

Not so much. I'm saying the combat becomes more mechanically complex as the game goes on.

The combat's perfectly enjoyable by the time you unlock Arcane Artes and figure out that you can chain 3x (or 4x with a skill) Basic Attack -> Base Arte -> Arcane Arte. But you still have more to unlock - Altered Artes, Burst Artes, Mystic Artes, Double Mystic Artes, Fatal Strikes, skills that let you combo more types of artes together, skills that give specific characters new gameplay mechanics, etc.

Originally posted by Unseen:

But why do so many people dislike zestiria?

Frankly, the plot and character writing was bland and boring, and also very shallow. Berseria, interestingly enough, fixed some of this by adding lots of intriguing backstory context.

Beyond that, the postgame DLC's plot never went anywhere and the dungeon was extremely repetitive, essentially adding nothing that the game desperately needed.

It's worth noting that the anime based on the game, Tales of Zestiria The X, was actually presented a lot better than the game. I take this as evidence that the game's plot itself isn't so bad, but rather its story presentation is lacking.

Gameplay-wise, the equipment upgrade system made the game stupidly grindy if you wanted to make use of it. Tales of Graces F had a similar problem, and people disliked the game a fair bit at the time for it as well.

Berseria, although not without its own (relatively minor) problems, fixed most of the issues Zestiria suffered from, and reinvigorated a lot of good-will with Tales fans.

[Unseen]

I'm not gonna say zestiria is better than berseria, all I'm gonna say is I usually don't jump around a series and zestiria sold berseria for me.

I don't see how the story was bland, it was funny and brought me back to the golden age of anime comedy of the early 90s. Before they turned it into harems and send a dude flying 39 feet gag. Back in the days of ranma and tenchi. I feel this game vesperia had a far more generic and bland nowhere story than zestirias focused and funny plot. Games full of pop culture references and lailah is a delight. I love the game, much more than this one. So I mean everyone has opinions but the game really shined for me, while this one I do like just nowhere near as much as zestiria. And people say fans of tales didn't like it, but I started on the first tales (phantasia). So why do I like it so much? I just appreciate a fun, light, and comedic rpg instead of what every other rpg looks like to me.

Zestiria really feels unique to me. I'll stick up for it, probably my fav tales game if symphonia hadn't been so awe inspiringly dramatic and emotional (symphonia's story beat out all tales storylines I've played, but zestiria is still more fun).

As for the expansion, you are only looking at a dungeon. The expansion adds more gameplay than most expansions I've played. New music, new vendors, lots of stuff to empower your established party. It does what most jrpgs don't do in xps and borrows from successful western xps (fallout, tes) by giving us whole new content, and not suits or added battles.

But everything is preference and opinion, I disliked this games plot more than zestiria. But that's because it felt aimless and had one really questionable scene. No I don't agree with Yuri executing an old man over some confused plot line especially in public. Zestiria had no scene like that, rose had to make a few choices towards never give up evil doers. And maven was an idiot but Don was literally no threat to anyone old shamed man on his knees.

But vesperia is a beautiful game with an intense post Uber boss who really makes the battle system shine. But Zestiria does this as well. While having a fun and goofy exorcism storyline. This is why I don't get why Zestiria is so unpopular the games fun.

Also the gear system really isn't that grindy it's just that how to progress isn't very obvious. All you have to do is chain arts and skills in the equipment menu. Of course there's much more to it than that. But if you focus on one chain (example fire), it really doesn't take that long to be powerful. It can learning how, but once you get it down it's far less grindy. They also didn't stuff it full of boring and frustrating mini games. It's actually a lot easier to 100% through real rpg mechanics.

[Doom_Cookies]

It's fine that you liked Zestiria. And I mean that genuinely. I'm truly glad you enjoyed it. It's a minority opinion, however. Most of the Tales base widely disliked Zestiria for the reasons I described.

I did, too. I think it has the best Tales combat system to date with the possible exception of Xillia 2. But I also think the rest of the game aside from that combat (and its amazing OST and its solid anime-style graphics) was awful. Awful enough that I considered writing off the Tales series as a failure going forward and no longer buying their games. Berseria was my "last chance" to the Tales Team for getting it right. I've also been a Tales fan since playing Tales of Phantasia on the SNES, and I found Zestiria's overall quality so offputting that I nearly dropped the series forever.

The story direction of Zestiria, what it was going for, was actually good. When you talk about it reminding you of classic anime, that's what you're talking about for sure, and I agree. But the story presentation was horrendous. Tales of Zestiria The X, the anime, was rewritten from the game to solve the presentation problem and shows how the story itself could have shined in the game if it was presented better. Tales of Zestiria was the first time I ever played a Tales game and actually felt bored of the storyline in the process. It was a massive step backwards from their Xillia games.

Now, Zestiria wasn't the first game to have a story that was lackluster. As you pointed out, Vesperia doesn't reveal its overall plot until near the end of the game, and it makes a good chunk of the story feel directionless or listless. A large part of what carries Vesperia through that, and what Zestiria sorely lacks, is well-written characters. I could write an entire essay about the characterization, character growth, and narrative importance of every individual character in Vesperia. I cannot say the same for Zestiria's characters. As much of a delight as the characters (especially Lailah, I agree) are, they have all the depth of a bunch of puddles after a light rain and a lack of character development to match. The only character I thought was written particularly well was Mikleo, what with his secret involvement in the events that underpinned the entire plot of the game.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you on one point, though. The typical Tales minigames are truly awful, and Zestiria was all the better off without them.

Originally posted by Unseen:

Also the gear system really isn't that grindy [...]

Yes, it absolutely was that grindy. The upgrade system has exponentially scaling enhancement costs, needing two pieces of gear of the same enhancement level to upgrade to the next. You can't have an exponential cost system and have it be not grindy.

You can get plenty strong without going very deep into the grind, sure, but that still leaves you ignoring a vast majority of the system.

Originally posted by Unseen:

I disliked this games plot more than zestiria. But that's because it felt aimless and had one really questionable scene. No I don't agree with Yuri executing an old man over some confused plot line especially in public. [...] Don was literally no threat to anyone old shamed man on his knees.

I'm not sure how much you know about Seppuku/Harakiri, so I feel like I should explain a little. Yuri didn't really kill the Don.

(Gruesome content warning for all spoilers going forward!)

Seppuku was a form of ritualistic suicide during the olden times of Japan in which a dishonored individual would prove their repentance by killing themselves, therefore regaining their honor and that of their family's. The dishonored would take a small knife and disembowel themself, condemning themself to an excruciatingly painful death. They would stab into their lower gut, under their intestines, and slice upward toward the bottom of their chest.

During Seppuku, the Second was an individual trusted to use a sword to decapitate the one who salvaged their honor so that they would not live any longer to suffer the horrific pain. Having a Second was considered an act of mercy afforded to all who would save their honor through Seppuku.

(End of gruesome content in spoilers.)

As a side note, the dishonored could get cold feet and refuse to commit Seppuku. It was also the Second's role to execute them in their dishonor should it come to that.

In short, the Don was gone of his own volition one way or the other. All Yuri did was ensure that it was as painless as possible.

[Zeo]

This game in terms of combat start really slow, but the characters keep you invested in the story, Yuri is really smart for a change, he does things that we usually would do and he's often very bold, overcoming our expectations.

I'm not exception, I hated the combat at first as it is super cluncky and a downgrade from Abyss, but boy, if you stick playing it will reward you immensely! To the point that you will want to play with the other characters, even Rita!

What you and newcomer players have to keep in mind is, that until Arise, Tales is not a hack 'n slash game, it's a semi-action RPG, you need to guard and run away from enemies after a ATK chain.

[Osaka]

let see
- Narrow scenarios
- Tons of dialogues useless
- forced characters (cof cof Flyn, Rita)
- poorly writen story
- slow combat and repetitive (unless you're playing as patty)
- Has the most hatefull and annoying character in whole franchise (Estellise)
- This game is extremelly outdated even in 2008. looks like a N64 game, or being generous, Gamecube game
- Protags travel arroud the world just because yes, they don't have a solid reason to do this.
- Worst map exploration, everything is so empty and just has a lot of ''zubats'' to attack you, when you finally reach in your destine, it's just an empty and useless corridor

So i thing this was supposed to be Worst in the series