AI Unserved Stop Go

[Balimaar the Bass Fish]

About 15 laps before the end of my race in Turkey, Lewis Hamilton was given a Stop Go penalty for a severe collission that brought out a safety car.

He did not serve that penalty and at the end of the race he was awarded a mere 5 second time penalty.

Is that normal? I mean I'd expect a stop-go unserved penalty to involve more of a time penalty owing to the nature of the penalty. (A 20 second trundle down pit lane and then a few seconds stationary in the box)

[Maya-Neko]

Yes, that's normal. Unlike the Drive-Through-Penalty, you don't need to serve it within the race, as it's 5 seconds either way. They propably made it this way to make it less frustrating for the players, as the Drive-Through-Penalty will be perceived as very hard already, making even harder penalties not useful gameplaywise. After all, this isn't the real F1 and the penalty system isn't really bug free as of today.

[Balimaar the Bass Fish]

Well this I am calling a bug. It may not be real F1 but I do expect commiserate penalties. I mean why should anyone bother serving a Stop-Go penalty which will cost 20 seconds + however long youre stationary when I know if I dont serve it its only a 5 second penalty at the end of the race?

In my opinion its ridiculous

[STarScream]

Turkey? Is this a mod track? There was no race in Turkey for the past few years.

As far as stop and go penalty, the driver only serves this during a race if he makes a pit stop for tires like Maya said. This is not a bug, they do this in F1. A drive through penalty is the only time a driver must enter the pits. So yes, this is how they do it in real life.

[Balimaar the Bass Fish]

woops why do I always confuse Montreal with Turkey :S dont ask.....

huh ok after reading a bit more it seems youre right. A driver can just take a time penalty if they just dont pit again....

to me that is still ridiculous but thats an F1 problem not a Codemasters problem.

[Maya-Neko]

As far as i know, this kind of penalty doesn't exist in the FIA rules. In RL you can get a 10 second stop-and-go wich is mandatory (unless there are only 3 laps left, in which case it can be converted into a time penalty depending on how many laps they need to drive to end the race)

But as i said: this would propably be too frustrating for most players, so they changed the way, how stop-and-go penalties work in the game, so they won't make the pit stop mandatory, but you'll still have the waiting penalty when you pit to worsen your track position while stopping.

[cloister56]

So there are apparently 7 penalties the stewards can apply.

a) A five second penalty or b) A ten second penalty
This can either be taken when the driver next pits or if they have no more pit stops it is added on at the end of the race.

c) A drive through penalty (so drive down the pit lane but don't actually get to stop)

d) A ten second stop-go penalty (it doesn't actually make this clear but I think it is implied you can't then work on the car, it also seems you can't serve this penalty when the VSC or safety car are out, unless you were already entering the pits at the time.)

If they impose any of these during the last 3 laps or after the race then the stewards can convert them to a e)time penalty.
So 5 seconds for a), 10 seconds for b), 20 seconds for c) and 30 seconds for d)

f)They can issue a reprimand

g)And finally they can issue a drop of grid position of any number for the next event.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

So if the game is following the 2018 regulations as far as I can tell Hamilton should have been disqualified or I suppose they could give him a heavy grid penalty for the next race.


I'd be interested to know if Hamilton does get a grid penalty next race in your game.

[Maya-Neko]

They use slightly other rules in F1 2018 for gameplay reasons:

a) Warning when cutting corners or extending track limitations slightly or for most collisions. Getting 3 Warnings (not including collision warnings) will add 3 seconds of penalty (or 2 seconds in a 3/5-lap race).

b) A 5 second stop-and-go penalty for speeding in the pits, causing a big collision, or cutting some specific corners, for ignoring blue flags and illegal overtake warnings or for illegal blocking. This one needs to be fullfilled as explained already. You're allowed to work on the car after serving the stop-and-go penalty though.

c) 10 second penalty for massifely cutting shikanes and some slow corners.

d) Drive-Thorugh penalty for an early start or for speeding under a (virtual) safety car.

e) Disqualification for adding up to many time penalties in general, getting to many 10 second penalties, driving in the wrong direction or parking in a dangerous place (especially pit entry or exit). You'll get warned if you've enough time penalties to nearly get a DSQ

f) Grid penalties for getting new engine parts or gears before the 6th race.

And don't forget, that this game calculates penalties mathematically, while penalties given at real races are determined subjectively. Because of this, players almost always tend to accumulate more penalties than you would get in a real race. That's why most penalties are way more forgiving than in real life.

And also the game won't carry over penalties to other races, so everything done in a race will always be added up in this one at the end.

[cloister56]

Originally posted by Maya:

They use slightly other rules in F1 2018 for gameplay reasons:

a) Warning when cutting corners or extending track limitations slightly or for most collisions. Getting 3 Warnings (not including collision warnings) will add 3 seconds of penalty (or 2 seconds in a 3/5-lap race).

b) A 5 second stop-and-go penalty for speeding in the pits, causing a big collision, or cutting some specific corners, for ignoring blue flags and illegal overtake warnings or for illegal blocking. This one needs to be fullfilled as explained already. You're allowed to work on the car after serving the stop-and-go penalty though.

c) 10 second penalty for massifely cutting shikanes and some slow corners.

d) Drive-Thorugh penalty for an early start or for speeding under a (virtual) safety car.

e) Disqualification for adding up to many time penalties in general, getting to many 10 second penalties, driving in the wrong direction or parking in a dangerous place (especially pit entry or exit). You'll get warned if you've enough time penalties to nearly get a DSQ

f) Grid penalties for getting new engine parts or gears before the 6th race.

And don't forget, that this game calculates penalties mathematically, while penalties given at real races are determined subjectively. Because of this, players almost always tend to accumulate more penalties than you would get in a real race. That's why most penalties are way more forgiving than in real life.

And also the game won't carry over penalties to other races, so everything done in a race will always be added up in this one at the end.

Interesting, can I ask where did you get this information?
It's strange they have changed a stop go penalty, baring DSQ it seems like the heaviest on track penalty F1 has.
But if you are allowed to work on the car after serving it then it is no different to a time penalty which you take during a pitstop and as the OP has said not worth taking if you can just take the time penalty at the end of the race.
It also means that a drive through penalty becomes the heaviest no DQ penalty.
Looking back seems that this has been the way codemasters have done it since F1 2017.

Seems to me like a strange decision. I can understand giving warnings before you give penalties and having reduced duration of penalties to keep in line with the duration of the race.

But to change a stop go penalty to a penalty that already exists seems unnecessary and confusing. Either don't have them in the game if they feel it is too harsh (but I would argue give us the option to have them in) or impliment them correctly.

[Maya-Neko]

That's what i've just experienced right in the game after ~285 hours in F1 2017 and ~166 hours in F1 2018. The penalties in both games are the same and they propably won't change in future games, as it feels fair already in terms of gameplay. There are just some weird track limitations at some tracks, but that's just something, every driver needs to work around.

[STarScream]

Originally posted by Maya:

As far as i know, this kind of penalty doesn't exist in the FIA rules. In RL you can get a 10 second stop-and-go wich is mandatory (unless there are only 3 laps left, in which case it can be converted into a time penalty depending on how many laps they need to drive to end the race)

But as i said: this would propably be too frustrating for most players, so they changed the way, how stop-and-go penalties work in the game, so they won't make the pit stop mandatory, but you'll still have the waiting penalty when you pit to worsen your track position while stopping.

Yes these rules are absolutely in F1 in real life. I follow F1 very close and watch every race for several years. The 5 or 10 second time penalty is served in the pits ONLY if the driver stops for tires then what happens when they stop the crew can't start changing tires for the time penalty that was issued. If you had to enter the pits for a 5 second time penalty when you did not plan to stop for tires, that would not be a 5 second time penalty since a car must slow down when in pit lane so it would effectively be more like a 20-30 second added to your time if you had to enter the pits. This is why it is not mandatory to serve your time penalty in the pits unless you make a pit stop for tires.

As far as cutting corners, for one this is rare in real life but for example, in the race in USA Verstappen passed Raikkonen in 2017 on the last lap of the race to take 3rd place but all 4 tires of his car was on the wrong side of the race line, cutting the corner there for Raikkonen ended up with 3rd place because when you do this, you have to give the place back to the driver you passed. In F1, cutting corners is not really an issue, running wide is in which that lap is erased if it is in qualy's or a time penalty if in a race.

A drive through penalty is a much more harsh penalty than a 5 or 10 second time period and is only issued if a driver does something way out of line like when Vettel during a safety car pulled next to Hamilton and hit his car intentionally at Baku.

So far I have not seen any penalty in game (25% or longer) that is different then what they are in real life F1.

[Balimaar the Bass Fish]

This man is right. The way it works in game as far as stop-gos work is the same as F1 (looked up the rules myself after his post)

I think its stupid but again its a F1 problem not a CM problem.

(Heh I probably wouldnt have even posted this if I wasnt just a little salty about not getting my first career win because of this rule)

[cloister56]

The penalties are different from real life.

Firstly Stop Go Penalties.

The OP said Hamilton got a 5 second Stop Go 15 laps from the end.

There is no 5 second stop go penalty in the regulations.

According to the FIA regulations this should have been served costing him approx 30s of time.

If he failed to obey and completed 2 more laps (some areas say 3 but the regs "cross the line on the track no more than twice" so I assume this means lap 1, laps 2, pit in lap.) Then he should have been disqualified.


If it had been within 3 laps of the end then instead 30s would be added onto his time at the end of the race.
https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

So it seems the game is calling it a stop go penalty but treating it like a time penalty.

The game at 25% length will also award a 3s time penalty, this is again not in the FIA regulations.


Personally as I've said I think it would be clearer if the game was to not use the term stop go penalty unless they enforce it as per the rules. What they are doing is a 5 second time penalty so call it that.

I think it makes sense to scale the time penalties to the race duration as a 10s penalty in a 25% race would hurt far more than in a 100% race. So I understand why a 3s time penalty exists.

[cloister56]

This is highlights from the 2018 Brazil Grand Prix. At 4:32 Ocon is shown serving his 10s stop go penalty for his tangle with Verstappen.
Notice no one working on the car. He has had to drive in and stop for 10s before rejoining the race. This is a stop go penalty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5pdLO9irzY