Role of Women

[Author Jeb Smith]

I suggest having a important role given to women. I am reaching the subject and it seems Medieval women played a far more significant role in politics from 9-13th century then the later middle ages and Renaissance.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

I suggest having a important role given to women. I am reaching the subject and it seems Medieval women played a far more significant role in politics from 9-13th century then the later middle ages and Renaissance.

What kind of fake woke virtue signaling nonsense is this? What "important role" do you believe they should have? You clearly don't know what you're even talking about, and I'm guessing you didn't even play the first game or read any of the dev diaries for this game if you're somehow under the impression that the developers need your little suggestion in this regard or any other.

[Lighthope]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

I suggest having a important role given to women. I am reaching the subject and it seems Medieval women played a far more significant role in politics from 9-13th century then the later middle ages and Renaissance.

What kind of fake woke virtue signaling nonsense is this? What "important role" do you believe they should have? You clearly don't know what you're even talking about, and I'm guessing you didn't even play the first game or read any of the dev diaries for this game if you're somehow under the impression that the developers need your little suggestion in this regard or any other.

If you studied history, you'd know that women did play a very large role. It was always couched behind men, but women were very powerful. Especially when the ruling male was not of age. When that happened, absolutely it was the woman who wielded power.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Lighthope:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

What kind of fake woke virtue signaling nonsense is this? What "important role" do you believe they should have? You clearly don't know what you're even talking about, and I'm guessing you didn't even play the first game or read any of the dev diaries for this game if you're somehow under the impression that the developers need your little suggestion in this regard or any other.

If you studied history, you'd know that women did play a very large role. It was always couched behind men, but women were very powerful. Especially when the ruling male was not of age. When that happened, absolutely it was the woman who wielded power.

I did study history. In fact, my degrees are in ancient and medieval history, and I can confidently state that during the time period OP mentions there was maybe a handful of women who actually held any real power themselves (such as Irene of Athens, or Aethelflaed of Wessex, or Matilda/Maud of England, or Eleanor of Aquitaine) and that by and large the "role" of women was the medieval version of housekeeping, caring for their children and overseeing their upbringing, and if they were of noble stock, then their "role" was "diplomatic" in the sense that they were utilized to secure an alliance and/or piece(s) of land.

Did some noblewomen intrigue and plot? Sure, and some were even successful to an extent, but whatever reflection of "power" this might be, it was always reliant on powerful men actually putting it into effect. For example, some might say that Isabella of France overthrew her husband, Edward II. In reality, if it wasn't for Mortimer and his men and the fact that they had the heir apparent in their custody, Isabella's little rebellion would have petered out rapidly.

There were very, very few situations where a mother completely dominated a regency for an underage king or nobleman. In virtually every case I can think of from the time period, there were other notables involved in the regency, even if the mother was nominally "the regent." Even Blanche of Castille, probably one of the most famous medieval "regents" due to her being regent twice for her son St. Louis, had to rely on noblemen and others to secure her position.

Ironically, OP states that women had more power in the early period he mentions as opposed to the later medieval period/Renaissance, when women actually had more power and when there were more queens and duchesses regnant.

If either you or the OP actually played the first Knights of Honor then you would already know that women had significant roles in that game as rulers/diplomats/courtiers/council members, and will thus continue to have those "roles" in the sequel. Therefore OPs "suggestion" is superfluous and a pretty lame example of virtue signaling, as is your input.

[riki_cappelletti]

Wokism is everywhere. They will try to "regulate" even videogames.

[Author Jeb Smith]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

I suggest having a important role given to women. I am reaching the subject and it seems Medieval women played a far more significant role in politics from 9-13th century then the later middle ages and Renaissance.

What kind of fake woke virtue signaling nonsense is this? What "important role" do you believe they should have? You clearly don't know what you're even talking about, and I'm guessing you didn't even play the first game or read any of the dev diaries for this game if you're somehow under the impression that the developers need your little suggestion in this regard or any other.

I am not woke I can assure of that, this has nothing to do with PC it is actually anti PC. The common opinion is that women were powerless and had no influence, I suggest we be historically accurate instead of PC and give an honest portrayal of the period.

[Author Jeb Smith]

Originally posted by riki_cappelletti:

Wokism is everywhere. They will try to "regulate" even videogames.

They already do, have you played TW? This has nothing to do with wokeism but offering a honest portrayal of the period. I would say it is you guys being PC buy apretnley disregarding historical truth to eliminate women in the middle ages.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

What kind of fake woke virtue signaling nonsense is this? What "important role" do you believe they should have? You clearly don't know what you're even talking about, and I'm guessing you didn't even play the first game or read any of the dev diaries for this game if you're somehow under the impression that the developers need your little suggestion in this regard or any other.

I am not woke I can assure of that, this has nothing to do with PC it is actually anti PC. The common opinion is that women were powerless and had no influence, I suggest we be historically accurate instead of PC and give an honest portrayal of the period.

That is the "common opinion" because the majority of women were powerless and were not influential. Even women who were born rich and were heirs to estates because their fathers lacked any direct male heirs were not in charge of their own lives. There is a major difference between legitimate power/legitimate influence and whatever charismatic, cunning wiles medieval noblewomen had at their disposal.

Eleanor of Aquitaine is usually considered the richest, most powerful and influential woman of her time, yet was she really? When she was married to the king of France her lands were administered by his officials and her willfulness was put to shame. When she was married to the king of England her lands were administered by his officials, and the sum total of her influence and power was to encourage her sons to rebel against their father - a rebellion which failed and as a consequence Eleanor was arrested and locked up until Henry's death. So in reality she wasn't very powerful or influential at all.

Also, as I've already mentioned, women were rulers/diplomats/courtiers/council members in the first Knights of Honor and will continue to have those positions in the sequel. I'm not sure what other role you think they should have.

[Author Jeb Smith]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

I am not woke I can assure of that, this has nothing to do with PC it is actually anti PC. The common opinion is that women were powerless and had no influence, I suggest we be historically accurate instead of PC and give an honest portrayal of the period.

That is the "common opinion" because the majority of women were powerless and were not influential. Even women who were born rich and were heirs to estates because their fathers lacked any direct male heirs were not in charge of their own lives. There is a major difference between legitimate power/legitimate influence and whatever charismatic, cunning wiles medieval noblewomen had at their disposal.

Eleanor of Aquitaine is usually considered the richest, most powerful and influential woman of her time, yet was she really? When she was married to the king of France her lands were administered by his officials and her willfulness was put to shame. When she was married to the king of England her lands were administered by his officials, and the sum total of her influence and power was to encourage her sons to rebel against their father - a rebellion which failed and as a consequence Eleanor was arrested and locked up until Henry's death. So in reality she wasn't very powerful or influential at all.

Also, as I've already mentioned, women were rulers/diplomats/courtiers/council members in the first Knights of Honor and will continue to have those positions in the sequel. I'm not sure what other role you think they should have.

Just as I am not asking for every man to appear powerful I am also not asking that every women does. I am simply saying do not leave out the exceptions due to the rule. There were very few Popes, bishops, kings in the Middle Ages, but dont leave them out because they were few, likewise dont lave out the uncommon but important role that women played just because they are women.

No one was "powerless" not a single man or women, but that would be another discussion.

I did not play the first KOH so to hear that they did play their some of their historical roles in the game is great.

[Author Jeb Smith]

Perhaps I should have researched into the role that women played in KOH before posting. My apologies for not doing so first.

[Lighthope]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

If either you or the OP actually played the first Knights of Honor then you would already know that women had significant roles in that game as rulers/diplomats/courtiers/council members, and will thus continue to have those "roles" in the sequel. Therefore OPs "suggestion" is superfluous and a pretty lame example of virtue signaling, as is your input.

What the heck are you talking about?! You clearly have never played the original game. Woman have NO role in the original other than someone to produce children or help form an alliance with to another country. The developers specifically expanded the role of princesses in the sequel for the very reason that they were judged to be so useless in the original.

There are no council members unless you are talking about the knights. The knights are all exclusively male. There are no female marshals, clerics, builders, diplomats, nothing.

You never played the game; you probably never even watched a YouTube video of the game. And you don't know history.

I did study history. In fact, my degrees are in ancient and medieval history,

Pffft. No you don't.

[Heraclius Caesar]

Originally posted by Lighthope:

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

If either you or the OP actually played the first Knights of Honor then you would already know that women had significant roles in that game as rulers/diplomats/courtiers/council members, and will thus continue to have those "roles" in the sequel. Therefore OPs "suggestion" is superfluous and a pretty lame example of virtue signaling, as is your input.

What the heck are you talking about?! You clearly have never played the original game. Woman have NO role in the original other than someone to produce children or help form an alliance with to another country. The developers specifically expanded the role of princesses in the sequel for the very reason that they were judged to be so useless in the original.

There are no council members unless you are talking about the knights. The knights are all exclusively male. There are no female marshals, clerics, builders, diplomats, nothing.

You never played the game; you probably never even watched a YouTube video of the game. And you don't know history.

I did study history. In fact, my degrees are in ancient and medieval history,

Pffft. No you don't.

If I'm misremembering or getting it mixed up with something else I'm man enough to admit that but I did play the game some years ago as can be seen in my games section and could have swore women could be put up at the top section as part of the council and sent on diplomatic missions but ok, if I'm wrong fair enough.

As far as history goes you can't dispute anything I said in that regard as I'm not wrong, so I'm not sure where you get off trying to say I don't know history or that I don't have the degrees that I do very much have and put in quite a large chunk of my life for but think what you want, at the end of the day you're a random guy on the internet that I'm not worried about and that I'm not interested in a back and forth with.

Out of curiosity though how do you have a mouse icon for this game if it's not available for purchase yet?

[Yamun Khan]

Originally posted by Heraclius Caesar:

Originally posted by Lighthope:

What the heck are you talking about?! You clearly have never played the original game. Woman have NO role in the original other than someone to produce children or help form an alliance with to another country. The developers specifically expanded the role of princesses in the sequel for the very reason that they were judged to be so useless in the original.

There are no council members unless you are talking about the knights. The knights are all exclusively male. There are no female marshals, clerics, builders, diplomats, nothing.

You never played the game; you probably never even watched a YouTube video of the game. And you don't know history.



Pffft. No you don't.

If I'm misremembering or getting it mixed up with something else I'm man enough to admit that but I did play the game some years ago as can be seen in my games section and could have swore women could be put up at the top section as part of the council and sent on diplomatic missions but ok, if I'm wrong fair enough.

As far as history goes you can't dispute anything I said in that regard as I'm not wrong, so I'm not sure where you get off trying to say I don't know history or that I don't have the degrees that I do very much have and put in quite a large chunk of my life for but think what you want, at the end of the day you're a random guy on the internet that I'm not worried about and that I'm not interested in a back and forth with.

Out of curiosity though how do you have a mouse icon for this game if it's not available for purchase yet?

That is a good question, how does lighthope already have icon that shows owns the game that not available yet.

[Kukurutz]

Originally posted by Yamun Khan:

That is a good question, how does lighthope already have icon that shows owns the game that not available yet.

He has participated in the closed beta.

On the topic:
I am sure and can understand that some people will not like how Knights of Honor II handles the role of women in medieval times, this is very controversial and there's almost no way to do it right. Someone will always find a legitimate reason to complain and in my opinion, there's no clear right or wrong in this discussion.

[Author Jeb Smith]

Originally posted by Kukurutz:

Originally posted by Yamun Khan:

That is a good question, how does lighthope already have icon that shows owns the game that not available yet.

He has participated in the closed beta.

On the topic:
I am sure and can understand that some people will not like how Knights of Honor II handles the role of women in medieval times, this is very controversial and there's almost no way to do it right. Someone will always find a legitimate reason to complain and in my opinion, there's no clear right or wrong in this discussion.

I think were you to do a historical representation you would at least have a good excuse for anyone who is upset.

[Maatrac]

Originally posted by Sirjebtheepic:

I suggest having a important role given to women. I am reaching the subject and it seems Medieval women played a far more significant role in politics from 9-13th century then the later middle ages and Renaissance.

They will gave birth to kings;) thats an honour for them