How does "siege attack" work? Does siege unit provide...

[skyhrg]

Each unit has like 7~10 siege attack. And a single battering ram has 7 siege attack.

Does this mean what I think it does - that the battering ram only gives 7 siege attack while each unit does 7~10 siege attack?

But the thing is, I was attacking a castle without any siege units, and my army of highlanders wasn't doing any siege attack despite going through a long time...

How exactly does siege work in this game?

[MarVerine]

The sieging army needs to get the resiliance bar to half strength to storm the castle so that real combat can happen.
But because there are walls between you and the enemy you can get it down in two ways:
- one you have way more troops as them and their food is getting lower than yours,
additionally melee units do very little damage to the enemy forces.
- two you have archers and siege units that do way more damage to the enemy walls and
troops.
If you have certain recources like oil from flax and iron you get siege unit damage buffs. To find out what good does what click the kingdom advantages on the left lower corner.

[skyhrg]

So basically, the melee units' "siege damage" doesn't do any damage to the walls?

I was wondering where I could find how much damage a unit does to the walls...

[Genosse Kommissar]

Originalmente postado por MarVerine:

The sieging army needs to get the resiliance bar to half strength to storm the castle so that real combat can happen.
But because there are walls between you and the enemy you can get it down in two ways:
- one you have way more troops as them and their food is getting lower than yours,
additionally melee units do very little damage to the enemy forces.
- two you have archers and siege units that do way more damage to the enemy walls and
troops.
If you have certain recources like oil from flax and iron you get siege unit damage buffs. To find out what good does what click the kingdom advantages on the left lower corner.

This makes it sound like its useful to have archers or crossbows in your army, but actually its not. In a real time battle a full melee stack is more useful. Putting ranged units for sieges only comprimises their combat ability against other armies. Atleast in my experience.

Buying three trebuchets per siege army and having two of them is good enough.

[MarVerine]

Originalmente postado por Genosse Kommissar:

Originalmente postado por MarVerine:

The sieging army needs to get the resiliance bar to half strength to storm the castle so that real combat can happen.
But because there are walls between you and the enemy you can get it down in two ways:
- one you have way more troops as them and their food is getting lower than yours,
additionally melee units do very little damage to the enemy forces.
- two you have archers and siege units that do way more damage to the enemy walls and
troops.
If you have certain recources like oil from flax and iron you get siege unit damage buffs. To find out what good does what click the kingdom advantages on the left lower corner.

This makes it sound like its useful to have archers or crossbows in your army, but actually its not. In a real time battle a full melee stack is more useful. Putting ranged units for sieges only comprimises their combat ability against other armies. Atleast in my experience.

Buying three trebuchets per siege army and having two of them is good enough.

That depends of your army composition.

Melee units get to tank all the attacks while ranged units stay out of combat until they are all that is left. Thus even though spearmen have low attack they become the best unit with their high defense as the bowmen do the damage for them. If you want to win fast you can get a lot of swordsmen but you will have way higher casualties.

Swordsmen are weak to range attack and bowmen and early cav are weak to range attack as well. Only specialized units are alrounders. Thus if you have 4 Cataphracts you dont need spearmen and bowmen.

[Genosse Kommissar]

I dont use range units at all.
All my stacks with jerusalem look like this:

5 Heavy spear
1 Templar/Heavy Sword
2 Heavy Cav (2x Teutons or 1 Teuton + 1 Templar Cav)
1x Logi for 100+ supply
and my siege stacks have 3 trebuchets on top of this.

This is all I need because the trebuchets destroy the castle and their will to fight. If there is no enemy marshal in the besieged castle the AI cant start a breakout and thus no fight will occur.

Two armies besiege the castle and two stand guarding if I need them to do so that way no help will reach the castle. So far I am bulldozing everything.

Of course using ranged units would increase the damage to the enemy troops during a siege but if there is a hostile marshal and they attempt to lift the siege my ranged units become more of a liability.

Having standardized stacks means I can always rely on the same army regardless of marshal or engagement.

[MarVerine]

Originalmente postado por Genosse Kommissar:

I dont use range units at all.
All my stacks with jerusalem look like this:

5 Heavy spear
1 Templar/Heavy Sword
2 Heavy Cav (2x Teutons or 1 Teuton + 1 Templar Cav)
1x Logi for 100+ supply
and my siege stacks have 3 trebuchets on top of this.

This is all I need because the trebuchets destroy the castle and their will to fight. If there is no enemy marshal in the besieged castle the AI cant start a breakout and thus no fight will occur.

Two armies besiege the castle and two stand guarding if I need them to do so that way no help will reach the castle. So far I am bulldozing everything.

Of course using ranged units would increase the damage to the enemy troops during a siege but if there is a hostile marshal and they attempt to lift the siege my ranged units become more of a liability.

Having standardized stacks means I can always rely on the same army regardless of marshal or engagement.

How long into the game is that? Usually i become a great power with half of the med before i get siege units lol. Marriage with Byzantium really early is a way to get 2 to three new provinces almost right away.

[Genosse Kommissar]

My first two full stacks without trebuchets are probably early mid game.

I dont really follow a roadmap when it comes to creating my stacks. There is too much RNG in the political system. I do what I can afford at the moment.

My first two armies have been one peasant army that I use as canon fodder in real time battles while my second army consisting of light spear and some light sword + cav (whatever I can afford) surrounds the enemy and hits them from behind. That way my peasants take the brunt of the damage.

After that its a slow process of slowly of swapping out my peasant units for heavy infantry. Peasants go into castles instead. Once my first army is completely swapped, I start the same process with my second army. It takes a while, sometimes only one unit at a time.

It is of paramount importance not to lose units or get yourself into unnecessary wars.
For this I used two and later three diplomats to improve my relations with everyone around me until I have two combat ready armies.

I use light cav before I can swap them for something heavy. My first teuton cav was a merc unit because I lacked the leavies. I must say in the beginning the whole process is painful because you switch from peasants to leavies and the healing cost for heavies is high. But usually I come through.

Once I get my heavy cav I develop my kingdom further until I get my trebuchets. Trebuchets are more of a late mid game appearance for me.


But my point is, that first my light and later heavy spear units are always the core of my stacks. While swords and cav augment the stack with offensive capabilities. I also heavily utilize my marshals as offensive cav units. Would be a waste not to do so.

Currently I operate 4 full stack armies. 2 combat and 2 siege stacks. I am drowning in gold. Could augment the other two with trebuchets too.

[MarVerine]

Originalmente postado por Genosse Kommissar:

My first two full stacks without trebuchets are probably early mid game.

I dont really follow a roadmap when it comes to creating my stacks. There is too much RNG in the political system. I do what I can afford at the moment.

I stopped using diplomats for diplomacy and use them primarly as governors as they give food bonuses to provinces governed. My way of gaining relations is first to see which power is at war and offer to join them and send a trader afterfards gaining relations over time while making money (even when trading with the fatimids or whoever income may be low at the start, but you get heaps of money via traits that give you money per coastline tile the tradepartner holds) if they are big and have many wars they accept marriages for money fe. (about 1k or that you join a war on their side) if the king dies you can claim a big part of their realm.

Additionally you can raid the wartargets land to your will as they are mostly in battles or almost dead at that point. And if you siege a castle your allies help you and you keep the lands you take. If you have a trader leader you can creat vassals and marches from the taken land afterwards.