the game is not as smart as everybody thinks it is.

[pverflow]

this game has a wonderful concept but leaves soo much on the table in my(and my friends opinion). Instead of making wonderful logic puzzles we have to figure out what the developer had in mind. We've(5 people) played the first two main islands/campaigns with all extra levels and we solved all of them but stopped playing because the game doesn't want you to be using your logic and be smart it just wants to have that one solution that the level designer had in mind. we never felt smart but cheated when we stumbled through some of the solutions. There were genuine fun levels but they were few and far between. We had the constant feeling of "adventure game logic" (combine the rocket launcher with the string so you can use it as a bow)
it also never gives you any hint on what you can combine you cant you just stand there and try random things out and have to memorize the combinations that are allowed.
Having multiple fun or innovative solutions are outright not possible (at least in the first 30-40 or so levels) so we gave up because it was not fun anymore.
So unfortunate because, again, its such a great concept. With the one way solutions there is no incentive to play it again and try out different solutions.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

calling it "Sokoban 2" undermines the complexity that can go out from the keywords and how they interact eachother it's rarely challenging just pushing the right words it's challenging to come up with how to use the words to reach the goal.
However i'm not sure if you would change your mind since at the point where you were I was already hooked because I could see all the potential which is possible with the ruleset.

[Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏]

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

calling it "Sokoban 2" undermines the complexity that can go out from the keywords and how they interact eachother it's rarely challenging just pushing the right words it's challenging to come up with how to use the words to reach the goal.
However i'm not sure if you would change your mind since at the point where you were I was already hooked because I could see all the potential which is possible with the ruleset.

Hempuli honestly hasn't met this game's full potential. ...and I'm saying that from a perspective similar to yours, not so similar to the OP/user:"pverflow's".

Honestly, I don't think he ever will, which is a shame but, at least he created "Baba Is You" - I don't think anyone else would have done that.

[Perseus]

Publicado originalmente por pverflow:

Having multiple fun or innovative solutions are outright not possible
So unfortunate because, again, its such a great concept. With the one way solutions there is no incentive to play it again and try out different solutions.

I'd be interested to learn more about such a game, could you tell me about it/them?

Publicado originalmente por pverflow:

But this can offer so much more with such interesting mechanics but it doesn't step up and stays as a glorified Sokoban. Which is a good game but why make Sokoban 2 when you could have made an instant classic for life.

Exept for the fact that everything is on a grid, this isn't a sokoban game. Solutions in sokoban games are entirely different from solutions in other games.

Sokoban games(Sokoban, every game made by Draknek and friends, and the games that i don't know about) all have the same kind of solution. (i don't know how to describe it, other than i feel like it's not very "logic-focused" but rather "possibility-focused", if that makes sense.)

Other games(Baba Is You, Understand, The Talos Principle, The Swapper, Life Goes On, Portal games, and the games that i don't know about) have a different kind of solution. In these games, i feel like the logical process to get to the solution(s) is much more... logical than Sokoban games. Human biases play a greater role in being a problem when trying to figure out the solution.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Publicado originalmente por Perseus:

I'd be interested to learn more about such a game, could you tell me about it/them?

Zacktronic games like Spacechem or TIS-100 or something like Silicion Zeroes go exactly in such an direction.
They are not better or worse because of it, just different

[Perseus]

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

Publicado originalmente por Perseus:

I'd be interested to learn more about such a game, could you tell me about it/them?

Zacktronic games like Spacechem or TIS-100 or something like Silicion Zeroes go exactly in such an direction.
They are not better or worse because of it, just different

These are coding games. Are there other games that have that description that aren't coding games?

[Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏]

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

Publicado originalmente por Perseus:

I'd be interested to learn more about such a game, could you tell me about it/them?

Zacktronic games like Spacechem or TIS-100 or something like Silicion Zeroes go exactly in such an direction.
They are not better or worse because of it, just different

Publicado originalmente por Perseus:

Publicado originalmente por pverflow:

Having multiple fun or innovative solutions are outright not possible
So unfortunate because, again, its such a great concept. With the one way solutions there is no incentive to play it again and try out different solutions.

I'd be interested to learn more about such a game, could you tell me about it/them?
...

I'd be interested in learning more about what "pverflow" has in mind.

It sounds like what they're describing is this, though:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/218680/Scribblenauts_Unlimited/
Pretty fun from a creativity & imagination stand-point (much more creative & allowing for imagination than the main game mode of "Baba Is You" (which is the only one out of beta so far) ), however, much much weaker when it comes to logic, breaking the rules (there need to be rules in the first place in order for you to break them), rewriting the rules, & so on.

...or perhaps The Magic Circle would also fit such a description.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/323380/The_Magic_Circle/

Publicado originalmente por Perseus:

Publicado originalmente por Chocos Ramabotti:

Zacktronic games like Spacechem or TIS-100 or something like Silicion Zeroes go exactly in such an direction.
They are not better or worse because of it, just different

These are coding games. Are there other games that have that description that aren't coding games?

Yes. See above.

Would be interesting to see what "pverflow's" own list of things "pverflow" had in mind are, though.

[pverflow]

@Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at thanks for the recommendations! I have played and love both of them :)

for all the others. I just didn't like it and I said my opinion on it.
And the only thing that can change my mind on it is the game itself. Maybe some other day another me will absolutely love it but for now its not what I want. All that said, I have no ill will or any bad feelings about the game. I am genuinely happy for all of you that you love this game, be happy and have fun. If you like to be mad at me because I just don't "get it" suit yourself. No bad feelings back.
I think, I have made my point and I'm not going to answer to this forum post again.

cheers and love

[Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏]

Publicado originalmente por pverflow:

@Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at thanks for the recommendations! I have played and love both of them :)

for all the others. ... If you like to be mad at me because I just don't "get it" suit yourself. No bad feelings back.
I think, I have made my point and I'm not going to answer to this forum post again.

cheers and love

I don't think they're mad; I think they just disagree & find this to be an interesting subject to discuss.

Also, in case you're still getting notifications from the thread, if people continue to discuss it - there's a grey unsubscribe button in the top right corner of the page you can use if you're done with it for now.