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Later levels can feel impossible, it's like trying to find out a magic trick, with the inherent game logic, but still I can assure you, you won't be able to bruteforces these solutions.
I mean, I fully understand - it wasn't the "cup of tea" for a close friend of mine who said it felt "too much like debugging code" to him. However, while I understand that it might not be for you, I strongly disagree with some of the points that you raise.
This is incorrect. Try looking up level solutions on the Baba wiki.
Many of the levels have 7 or 8 solutions.
Now, some of them only do have 1 solution, but that's kind of the point.
If you're looking for a "puzzle" game with lots of solutions per level, & that let's you be as creative as you want to be, in solving each level, then I'd recommend the Scribblenauts series (not the DC one, that one is restrictive) - I believe Scribblenauts Unlimited is available right here on Steam.
It's still considered a "puzzle" game but that one is kind of the opposite, in that there's hundreds of ways to cheese each level.
I'm not sure what the development solution is to that but "Baba Is You" could be a bit better at preparing the player for new situations by giving the player better learning opportunities, rather than just (quite often) throwing them in the deep end... but not so deep because some of the puzzles with new concepts are kind of claustrophobic.
You're referring to the water area & Solitary Island, right?
If I'm not mistaken... you didn't have to do all of the extra levels at once & focus on only those areas. Other areas open up & I believe if you explored the puzzles of the other areas more rather than dedicating yourself to 100% each area before moving on, you'd probably enjoy the game more & have been able to get to "A Way Out", which is an early level that lets you beat the game & gives you an ending.
I expect you'd probably still be dissatisfied, but there IS a different way you guys could have played the game, which I believe would have been (if even only slightly so) more enjoyable.
Even if you're using the editor, there's still limited freedom. There's never enough rules and space to do "everything" (which is a thing called the incompleteness theorem). And it turns out that this game engine behaves similarly to a programming language.
Baba Is You is a puzzle game with 2 layer of rules. The first layer is the game's selling point: rules that can be changed, and the second layer is the game's "rules": the rules that govern first-layer rules. So in essence, this game is still a puzzle game, and you have to learn the rules, which comes in 2 layers in this game. The second-layer rules are almost always what catch people off-guard.
This puzzle game may not be your cup of tea, but I hope this clears some misconception or answers your questions.
I mean, of course some of the solutions will be unique, some levels are here to teach you one specific thing, if you can avoid that specific thing, well, the level would have failed its purpose. So the level have to restrict you a little bit.
When you get to the point where you have to apply your knowledge instead of just gaining that knowledge, things are differents (a little bit at least).
the weirdest thing there were 3 programmers and 2 graphic designers (im one of them) and the coders really had a hard time solving them where i would think it would be more up their alley. But they found the rules even more arbitrary then we did.
As they say: "Expectation is the killer of joy" We expected the wrong thing.
Keep in mind that some of those are optional, too, as you only need to complete about 1/3 of an areas puzzles in order for that area to count as "completed" & allow you to progress on the world map. (Achievements are a different story - but they wouldn't really be much of achievements where you're achieving anything, otherwise.)
Now, I knew this was a puzzle game that was going to have difficult & strict solutions but I didn't expect quite as many of the puzzles to be this way. So, to be fair, I was expecting more "puzzles" that just let you mess around with things, as well.
In fact, I think this is one of the ways that the game could help people have more opportunity to learn some of the more complicated stuff that it throws the player into the deep end for - Would it work at teaching the intended mechanic? Maybe not, but at least it would increase the number of opportunities & give players a little more room to just play around.
So, while I disagree with many things - this is something I can at least somewhat agree with. I think the game could have benefited from having a few "sandbox" levels that are really easy to solve but make it easy to try out a lot of things before needing to do something more difficult in order to progress - I don't think this would always be possible, but it would be nice to see more of an attempt in the game's design - & I actually think this game is brilliant & like it... [however] it still could improve.
Anyone can code (especially if you use HTML), so that doesn't mean anything to me, other than they're still limiting their thinking too much & their overall creative & engineering (even if just with software) capabilities could still be improved quite a bit.
Good programming actually requires a creative mind-set, which might actually be why the artists among your friends found things less arbitrary / more understandable.
To be brutally honest, there's a difference between hacking together some draw & on-click event statements & actually writing code that computes data & works through problems that might actually be monetizable.
Oh, definitely!
It happens & sorry to hear it.
I have quite a few stories of my own about games that weren't what I was expecting - & quite a few more when it comes to all things, & not just games.
Anyone can code (especially if you use HTML), so that doesn't mean anything to me, other than they're still limiting their thinking too much & their overall creative & engineering (even if just with software) capabilities could still be improved quite a bit.
Good programming actually requires a creative mind-set, which might actually be why the artists among your friends found things less arbitrary / more understandable.
just to clarify that they are not your run of the mill html "coders". They are like really really smart. All three of them (from different backgrounds) do this for a living ( one is a security researcher/coder that basically never leaves his linux environment, one has a design background the other is a game developer of 10 years.)
Tho i really liked sokoban as a kid so im probably more trained in these types of games :D
Oh man... security isn't very creative, though.
Security is super-boring - unless maybe you're a seasoned penn-tester who knows how to really make a digital system crack under the pressure.
That's ironic because much of "Baba Is You" is still basically just a sokoban style puzzle game, where you push blocks around (some of the puzzles where you do things like stacking text on other text are less like that & downright sadistic).
Anyways, I know enough about this game & what is on the market to know where your issue lies (probably).
Try these ones instead, I think they should be better suited for you:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1052990/A_Monsters_Expedition/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/353540/Stephens_Sausage_Roll/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/996980/Dis_Pontibus/
(Interestingly enough, 2 of these are available in a bundle with Baba: https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/16473/Babas_Sausage_Expedition__Puzzle_Game_Masterpieces/ )
Baba Is You is a peculiar puzzle game. Your own logic don't always work because this game has its own logic. Your friends are experience programmers and are well past the learning phase. You have your own flow of logic. It is hard to step outside the comfort zone (as you said, one guy literally never leaves his linux environment), and this game requires you to do so.
Actually, the developer of this game may have less experience in game development than your friends. It's natural that they think differently.
It's hard to change a person and his point of view. But the best way to enjoy this game is to empty your mind and throw away the assumption that you are smart.
There are puzzles games where you can invent your own solution and there are puzzle games where you need to figure out the solution in design.
Baffles me...
And talking about "left on the table".... :)
sure every game should "just start to getting interesting" after 35+ levels.... best way to hook people amirite?
sarcasm aside. I already stated our position. We did even try it a couple of days later and deep into the third act/island we just stopped.
well you don't have to have that but that makes the game less interesting and kills its replay value . And i don't have anything against single solution puzzle games. But this can offer so much more with such interesting mechanics but it doesn't step up and stays as a glorified Sokoban. Which is a good game but why make Sokoban 2 when you could have made an instant classic for life.
And, like - I - said before:
...you don't need to 100% each area before moving on to the next.
You don't even need to finish all of the "main levels" before advancing to the next area on the world map.
By not even sampling the other areas, you guys missed out on a lot of different quality content that the game had to offer, not to mention, likely forced yourself to feel what is known as "burn-out".
Hempuli should have added a mechanic that discourages people from doing everything sequentially, or at least encouraged people to visit other areas sooner before coming back & finishing the previous areas. Precisely to stop people from getting worn-out from the gimmicks of specific areas.
However, your other complaint is that the game has levels with one solution -- & [I'd say,] minor nuances that allow you to do things differently aside... this is true of most levels
(but not all levels)
3 solutions:
https://babaiswiki.fandom.com/wiki/Rocky_Prison
4 solutions:
https://babaiswiki.fandom.com/wiki/Sorting_Facility
Given the complexity of them & that you can really only 100% this game by learning the mechanics, rather than memorizing the solutions... you must have a very good memory.
I have to re-figure out the problems when I go back. Which I can do much faster than before but I still wind up having to solve again.
I know you disagree and I also know why you would disagree. The reason why Baba is You qualifies as a classic is locked until you have cleared 7 worlds. Note that "clear" is not equivalent to "complete". To clear a world you only have to clear a number of levels (and earn the blossom), but to complete a world you need to clear all levels within the world (and earn the achievement) which is much harder and completely unnecessary for the purpose of progress.
The first 3 to 5 worlds are meant to warm you up, not burn you out.