Help needed with Booby Trap (very late game)

[Tricky Joe]

Many late-game spoilers here. I need a little guidance with Booby Trap. I'd been sitting happily on 225+3 until the Switch was updated a few months ago, and having followed this forum a bit I know that Woah is hidden under the cursor.

I know roughly the shape of what I need to do, but it all hinges on doing a certain thing upfront which I'm getting stuck on. It doesn't help that the level in question was the one I spent the single longest time on in the main game (even more than previous bane Crushers) and so I'm frankly a bit sick of it. I don't want to ask for positive information, so I'm here asking for either confirmation of the things I already think, or to be told where my assumptions or logic are breaking down. I can keep shunting things around if I know I have the right idea.

So this is what I assume:

1. I need to make LEVEL IS TEXT and LEVEL IS FLAG simultaneously in Booby Trap.
   
2. This requires text-stacking within Booby Trap.
   
3. The only way to stack text in Booby Trap is with SHIFT: two objects shifting text in such a way that they land on one tile at the same time.
   
4. Since the shifted text needs to be on top of an object, the objects doing the shifting can't be TEXT already (because if I could get to that state in the first place, I wouldn't be stuck now).
   
5. The objects must therefore be either two flags, or a flag and a belt.
   
6. If the objects are two flags, the problem is that FLAG itself is stuck in the bottom room (because to construct BELT IS FLAG, one BELT has to move left to break the BELT IS BELT, and that makes it impossible to get FLAG out again). So I can discount that.
   
7. The objects are therefore a flag and a belt, which both have to be SHIFT at the same time. I can't do that with text-stacking (FLAG + BELT) because even though I can stack those words, I lose the belt in the process.
   
8. So I have to construct BELT IS SHIFT (horizontal in bottom room) and FLAG IS SHIFT (vertical through that room's top entrance).
   
9. I need one of the three FLAG IS SHIFT tiles to be the flag or the belt, pointing upwards.
   
10. I need the other of the flag or belt to be above that, pointing downwards -- with a gap of at least one tile between them, but maybe more if I can push a longer chain of text.

Am I right about all of that? Is one of my later assumptions wrong, and in fact I should be looking for a slightly different setup? I don't want to know what I should be doing, thanks -- just what I shouldn't be doing! Every time I get close, I find some small obstacle stopping me from completing it.

Thanks in advance -- I appreciate you looking, and also being vague in what you reveal so I still have the option of ploughing on and figuring it out myself.

Cheers.

[ThatGuyCDude]

Assumption 4 needs work.
Assumption 7 needs work.
Assumption 8 is wrong.
Assumption 9 and 10 need work.

[Tricky Joe]

Thanks, that's exactly the amount of info I was looking for. Of course I'm still stuck, but in a different way and at least it's a problem I've not been working on yet! (Pleased to discover my "this is impossible!" shouts for the stuff in 9/10 were correct...)

[strata_ranger]

I am also stuck on this same task on the same level (I have completed everything else I know I have access to) Spelling BELT IS SHIFT (horizontal) and FLAG IS SHIFT (vertical) using the same SHIFT feels intuitive but in this case wrong, due to the relatively small room in which BELT appears.

[live22morrow]

I'd add that assumption 3 is maybe a bit misleading.

[Tricky Joe]

Originally posted by live22morrow:

I'd add that assumption 3 is maybe a bit misleading.

Okay, that's interesting. I've been rewinding to an earlier state of assumptions and haven't been able to figure out how to get (#4) text to shift text on top of other text. And the only way I know (in this level) to stack text already is with something on BELT, which means sacrificing TEXT to the room at the bottom. So perhaps I'm missing something fundamental here.

Thanks all for the replies and for keeping it vague!

[dragon]

It's not exactly intuitive, I'd count it as one of the more obscure interactions in the game. Keep experimenting with it a lot and you might stumble upon the solution eventually, maybe by pure chance.

[strata_ranger]

Well, here's my take on the prospect. Because Text is Push by default, about the only ways to stack two texts on top of each other (at least, in this level specifically) seems to be:
- Stack a desired text on an object, then create "(object) is TEXT". Unfortunately this cannot be done with the Flag (as "Flag is Flag"), and doing it with Belt requires leaving useful blocks stranded in the lower room.
- Shift the two objects into the same square simultaneously. This would be easier with two objects of the same type, but the only available way to do that is with two Flags (after breaking "Belt is Belt" to specify "Belt is Flag" instead), and again, this tends to leave important text blocks stranded.

[Jenkar]

Originally posted by strata_ranger:

Well, here's my take on the prospect. Because Text is Push by default, about the only ways to stack two texts on top of each other (at least, in this level specifically) seems to be:
- Stack a desired text on an object, then create "(object) is TEXT". Unfortunately this cannot be done with the Flag (as "Flag is Flag"), and doing it with Belt requires leaving useful blocks stranded in the lower room.
- Shift the two objects into the same square simultaneously. This would be easier with two objects of the same type, but the only available way to do that is with two Flags (after breaking "Belt is Belt" to specify "Belt is Flag" instead), and again, this tends to leave important text blocks stranded.

Very big hint (imo) :
neither of those are the way

[strata_ranger]

Originally posted by Jenkar:

Very big hint (imo) :
neither of those are the way

The whole game is made of that, isn't it?

Nonetheless, the only way to set up a double Shift appears to be using Flag and Belt, presumably using the top "Belt" word? Unfortunately this tends to block the entry into that room.

Current idea(s) to experiment with:
- obviously, "Text is Shift" gives text the ability to push basically anything around (such as flag and belt), but those can push more text in turn.
- find some way to make belt face up while in its initial location. If so, I can push "Text is shift" into the room vertically to make "Belt is Shift" while "Text" is already on the belt, which will shift "Text" back up one tile.
- If I break "Belt is Belt" early, this frees up an extra "is" to play around with ... but I haven't found anything useful for this yet.

[kyojin_desu]

What are you guys are trying to do currently? LEVEL IS BABA or LEVEL IS something else? Sorry, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread :P

[Tricky Joe]

Originally posted by kyojin_desu:

What are you guys are trying to do currently? LEVEL IS BABA or LEVEL IS something else? Sorry, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread :P

Trying to achieve LEVEL IS FLAG and LEVEL IS TEXT at the same time (first item in my long list in the first post).

[ThatGuyCDude]

Shift is a very unusual rule. Try to remember things you learned about it, such as from puzzles like "Lock the Door" in Forest.

[Tricky Joe]

Interesting, as I do remember that one and had to use it as part of a previous solution to Booby Trap. The only way I was able to get LEVEL IS FLAG previously was to combine it with BELT and then use that self-moving trick. (That trick was what I needed for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Crushers so I didn't forget it!)

And my attempt to combine it with two SHIFTing items moving text on to one tile at the same time has so far not worked. I always find that one ends up pushing the other. Furthermore, TEXT is trapped in the bottom room as a result of BELT IS TEXT, so I can't get it on to the stacked text anyway.

Am I wrong about that?

[ThatGuyCDude]

Yes, you'll need a different approach.
You can't afford to lose any text to that small room at the bottom
You shouldn't be forming any phrases in the bottom room, only breaking them

[Tricky Joe]

Thanks for steering me away from that. I'll give it another go!