Dead again?

[Warbeast]

I haven't played for a couple of weeks and just before I left there were on average 4 full US servers if not more. Now there is none. The game is deader then before. What happened?

[AKA_Big10]

OWI and the whole logi thing.

I have now played in multiple maps that have only the game spawn to choose from. No bueno.

[Tomus]

I think the SL role has too much busy work associated with it. Not only do you need to lead the squad and tell them what to do. But also organise a FOB, place a radio, build the FOB, place a rally. Heck just getting two people to join you at a single spot so you can place a rally is difficult enough. It puts me off taking the position because there are too many demands and judging by the previous few games I have played and the arguments people have not wanting the SL role I think its putting others off as well.

SL should be about leading the squad and putting down rallies - that is it. SLs should be able to place a rally Solo without a radioman or other squad members - this at least forces the squad to spawn together. If there is no Logi then give the SL the ability to place a FOB (garrison style like HLL does)

[Big Boss]

Originally posted by Tomus:

I think the SL role has too much busy work associated with it. Not only do you need to lead the squad and tell them what to do. But also organise a FOB, place a radio, build the FOB, place a rally. Heck just getting two people to join you at a single spot so you can place a rally is difficult enough. It puts me off taking the position because there are too many demands and judging by the previous few games I have played and the arguments people have not wanting the SL role I think its putting others off as well.

SL should be about leading the squad and putting down rallies - that is it. SLs should be able to place a rally Solo without a radioman or other squad members - this at least forces the squad to spawn together. If there is no Logi then give the SL the ability to place a FOB (garrison style like HLL does)

lol all of that stuff is just normal for Squad SL's and they have about 10x as many players

[Tomus]

Originally posted by Big Boss:

Originally posted by Tomus:

I think the SL role has too much busy work associated with it. Not only do you need to lead the squad and tell them what to do. But also organise a FOB, place a radio, build the FOB, place a rally. Heck just getting two people to join you at a single spot so you can place a rally is difficult enough. It puts me off taking the position because there are too many demands and judging by the previous few games I have played and the arguments people have not wanting the SL role I think its putting others off as well.

SL should be about leading the squad and putting down rallies - that is it. SLs should be able to place a rally Solo without a radioman or other squad members - this at least forces the squad to spawn together. If there is no Logi then give the SL the ability to place a FOB (garrison style like HLL does)

lol all of that stuff is just normal for Squad SL's and they have about 10x as many players

This isn't squad. From my experience in this game the role of SL seems to put people off.

[RitualClout]

Originally posted by Big Boss:

Originally posted by Tomus:

I think the SL role has too much busy work associated with it. Not only do you need to lead the squad and tell them what to do. But also organise a FOB, place a radio, build the FOB, place a rally. Heck just getting two people to join you at a single spot so you can place a rally is difficult enough. It puts me off taking the position because there are too many demands and judging by the previous few games I have played and the arguments people have not wanting the SL role I think its putting others off as well.

SL should be about leading the squad and putting down rallies - that is it. SLs should be able to place a rally Solo without a radioman or other squad members - this at least forces the squad to spawn together. If there is no Logi then give the SL the ability to place a FOB (garrison style like HLL does)

lol all of that stuff is just normal for Squad SL's and they have about 10x as many players

System was not designed around squad gameplay. Game was built around logi putting down team spawns and MSP's. most players played on that system. I've been in multiple games where squad leads straight up refuse to put down FOBs because "it's logistics job not theirs". Squad leaders straight up won't play this new spawn and logi system and expect logi to do it only. It puts way too much stress on the logi players because they don't have backup MSP's in case fobs get taken out early and squad leads won't put down team spawns cause that's not the game they are trying to play.

SL's are more than willing to walk from main base to the point across the map rather than do logistics

[Warbeast]

I'm curious to what made them make the changes. They are pretty major. I certainly enjoyed the old system. I absolutely love this game, so i'm sad to see the low server count. I'm giving the new system a fair chance to see if maybe it improves the overall game play. but so far I'm just missing the things that are gone.

[Sauntor]

It's because the logistics gameplay was gutted.

[Summerdreams]

Originally posted by RitualColt:

System was not designed around squad gameplay.

Well it certainly WAS built around squad gameplay - back in vanilla, if you did not stick with your squad, no medic was there to revive you and you had a never ending "walk 2 minutes, die in 5 seconds, watch at a screen for a minute and walk 2 minutes again"-look.
What was funny about it was: it actually worked. People sticked together, team coordinated itself.

But then rallies were added aaaaaand everything went downhill, simply because the game was not built around the fast gameplay rallies would create.

[Summerdreams]

Originally posted by RitualColt:

I've been in multiple games where squad leads straight up refuse to put down FOBs because "it's logistics job not theirs". Squad leaders straight up won't play this new spawn and logi system and expect logi to do it only. It puts way too much stress on the logi players because they don't have backup MSP's in case fobs get taken out early and squad leads won't put down team spawns cause that's not the game they are trying to play.

Well, i thought the overall teamplay in PS was sooo awesome, why do people have to be stressed out by coordinating players which automatically stick to each other?

Originally posted by Tomus:

Heck just getting two people to join you at a single spot so you can place a rally is difficult enough.

Keep THIS line in mind:

Originally posted by RitualColt:

SL should be about leading the squad and putting down rallies - that is it. SLs should be able to place a rally Solo without a radioman or other squad members - this at least forces the squad to spawn together

So, if people, are already overwhelmed in order to GATHER 3 INDIVIDUALS TO STICK TOGETHER - i repeat, THREE individuals, NOT MORE - just THREE SINGLE GUYS, feel free to explain WHY teamplay would be increased if you take even the SMALLEST teamplay incentivizing feature out of the game.
Please do not be offended, but this does not make sense to me and it boils down to the actual problem of the game, the community itself.
The recent changes to logistics at least tried to get the community back to where it should be: a highly coordinated collaborative community - just like in squad. And these changes PERFECTLY highlighted what is actually the reason for PS' community being this small: the community itself - promoted by the given gameplay mechanics.

Originally posted by Big Boss:

lol all of that stuff is just normal for Squad SL's and they have about 10x as many players

EXACTLY this. In squad you have to manage your squad, you have to manage your fireteams, you have to manage ammunition AND building points. You have to manage your own RALLIE (which is a depletable resource, just btw). You have to coordinate with your team, even with your transport. You have to manage SO MUCH and yet there are MANY people actually standing up to being SL.
In PS NOBODY does it, and why? Because this role is totally frustrating because of all the elements COUNTERACTING my will to actually be a LEADER (rallie SIGNIFICANTLY increasing speed of gameplay)

At least the logistics changes took out some really frustrating features: a logi being overwhelmed by having to react to EVERY SINGLE demand - whether it is an ammo crate, whether it is about mortars, whether it is about AT guns, whether it is about FOBs / Repair Stations, etc. etc., to simply providing other squads with the ability to do it on their own.

Just to repeat it, but if SLs are overwhelmed by coordinating 8 people (or 9 if you include the SL) combined with the need to place rallies, sorry but the problem is surely something else

[Big Boss]

I think the issue with this game is that in order for it to grow they have to change it but that is just going to push away the small group currently playing.

And the new or returning players they are hoping to get are already familiar with the game and arent that interested to start with.

The game is 6 years old and its already established as a good or bad game depending on who you ask. Trying to switch out the two groups at this late stage is going to require so much effort by the devs and it might not even work.

Basically the devs are damned if they do and damned if they dont. Its really an unenviable position they are in

[RitualClout]

Originally posted by Summerdreams:

Well, i thought the overall teamplay in PS was sooo awesome, why do people have to be stressed out by coordinating players which automatically stick to each other?

Honestly I do not disagree much with what you are saying, Teamplay is generally decent but as i said previously Squad leaders will literally walk 20 mins from the main base to a point because they don't want to put down fobs. I think you have a lot of old players deeply rooted in the old system who don't want to adapt to new changes and they don't want anything to do with logistics either. I think personally this is why they are giving back an MSP because this update has put wayy too much stress on logistics.

I have seen way too many times where squad leads use the infantry logistic vehicles as personal transport and dump them in the middle of nowhere at the start of the match NOT putting down a fob and telling logistics to put one down. It ends up with games where the team has no vehicles, no fobs and basically get steamrolled because the other team just ends up waiting on the last cap cause they have streamrolled through the past 3 cause the team walked 20 mins to the point

[ZimZam]

The logi changes sucked and ontop of that client and server crashes are intolerable. They killed it as quickly as they revived it.

[Warbeast]

kinda of funny. I just crashed out and saw this.

[['0] TallWhiteGuy]

Originally posted by Tomus:

Originally posted by Big Boss:

lol all of that stuff is just normal for Squad SL's and they have about 10x as many players

This isn't squad. From my experience in this game the role of SL seems to put people off.

But this is Squad....it's Squad 44 lol

[とも]

they could just try to appeal to the former and current player base by making changes that they want to see rather than changes people that were never interested to begin with already have in their other game, which they're not going to switch over from.

it's like arma reforger which always bleeds players after every failed sale (2 in short succession) and one of their "major updates" which always disappoint because it's not something any regular arma player asked for.

instead it's mostly played by the new console players which still wait for an auto aim assist. i've seen them struggle to aim when doing their usual teamkilling, because they're frustrated and miserable on their controllers.

they need to know who they appeal to, but the devs here too seem to just do what they already know to do and hope it sticks with the players. i doubt that will work out.