The problem with these kind of games (Squad, PS, Beyond the Wire.)

[PeepeePounder]

Listen, I love these games. I have probably 1000+ hours between them all. I played squad in its alpha and have followed both PS and Beyond the Wire since he beginning of their development cycle.

Before I say my point, I want to preface this by separating the three games slightly.
Squad is in its own catagory. Whereas PS and BtW are in their own.

PS/BtW

The problem with these games as a whole are, while they give you a great, authentic experience for the wars/time-frames their set in. Thats literally all they do. The reason PS and BtW suffer from such low playercounts and struggle to grow no matter how many free weekends/discounts/influencers or updates they add is because of two major things.

First, theres literally no progression. No gameplay loop. Nothing to keep people wanting to play the game aside from getting that authentic experience you cant get anywhere else. The issue with that however is that no matter how much somebody loves authentic war experiences/settings they can only play so much of it when theres literally NOTHING to work towards. I liken it to tourism. People come to the game, they enjoy it, experience what they have to offer and then once they see it all they leave. To be honest I dont blame them. It again comes back to the idea of a gameplay loop. Progression. I love all these games but even though I can truly appreciate all the small details these games have to offer, I dont play very often anymore for this exact reason. Ive seen it all already. When I do decide to play it, I literally think to myself "Guess ill go shoot some dudes with a Kar98" and thats it. Because again, there is no real drive other then that exact thought. Which gets boring to most people over the long-term.

Compound that with the fact that you can only play these games depending on their playercount and active users, it leaves a very shaky, unreliable foundation for most people. Which I think effects new players willingness to purchase this game. Playercount and overall community health is VITAL for these kinds of games because you cannot play it without people. Theres no ai, no offline mode, nothing. If you want to play this game, you need players. (Now im not saying PS dosent have players, but its getting dangerously low. Im NA east and I only saw two full servers yesterday.) The combination of the low player count, and the lack of any form of progression is honestly the reason I think PS is losing to HLL and soon to Enlisted.

I understand the developers reluctance to add unlockables etc to the game. While sure it can muddle down the "Historical Accuracy" of the game, I believe its essential for these games growth, and for player retention.

If Offworld just bit the bullet and added in a simple rank system aswell as tastful, accurate customization options for specific factions (Like only things such as different camo stahlhelms, scrim netting, cigarette in your guys mouth, rolled up sleeves etc.) and even weapon changes. (Yes I know im about to get crucified) but Red orchastra 2 did it extremely well. If you used a weapon long enough you unlocked battle-torn/worn weapon skins of that same variety. Or alternate but still historically accurate Iron sights. (Ex. Kar 98 open irons opposed to their closed irons.) Different paintjobs for the tanks, pin-up art for them, etc.

I know lots of you will say adding this stuff dosent belong in "These types of games" but I disagree. They can still maintain their same overall realistic vision for the game, AND have stuff players can actually work towards.

Simply put, This game has an amazing experience to offer. Thats it. That experience gets old to 90% of people over time because you gain nothing from anything you do in this game. Leaving a massive hole in the gameplay loop, which keeps players around. This can be fixed if Offworld just accepted players want/need some form, any form of progression to keep us all playing it.

Side Note: While It might be a mess for Offworld to program, having working AI for coop modes and offline gameplay will 100% ease players reluctance to buy and probably add a massive spike to this games population. Contrary to popular belief, theres many players who would love modes that arn't dependant on 100-200 players who may not even exist in their specific regions.

Squad: I want to say that Squad dosent have the exact same issue as PS or BTW because Squad has an immense amount of content (that ISNT progressin.) What I mean by that is, that the Squad has like 8-9 different armies, 30-40 or so maps at this point (With numerous layers) and tons of vehicle/gameplay variety. This is what keeps squad standing. It has a large amount of concrete assets that help vary up each match enough, that the glaring issue I stated above is less prevalent then in both PS and BtW. But the reality is, even Squad has this issue. It would benefit from ranks to help people understand who is a good and who is a bad squad leader etc.

[PeepeePounder]

geozero の投稿を引用：

Agree on nearly all points. I'll add my own rant. These games need to have some procedural randomness on the maps IMO. They are never going to show every building as it was IRL so there's no point in pretending to put a row of square buildings - many without interiors - simply to make a street. It looks - no, it IS - repetitive and would be a hell of a lot better if the towns, terrains, tree placements were more random. And yes it can be done since the assets would be the same, just random. There also needs to be better design so that turning down graphics and seeing a crappy image doesn't give you a tactical advance. You should not be able to see through brush or farther with lower graphics. This is something that all these games have, so while someone buys a super fast PC to view the great graphics touted on game pre-release advertisements, it's the people turning down the settings that are getting all the kills. Seems counter productive, just give me a Minecraft voxel game then and don't waste time developing any graphical views. So IMO get the graphics balanced to player actions or just don't let graphics to be adjusted that much. There's also got to be better game design when it comes to using mics in game, weapons, server balancing and other areas that do nothing but promote abuse and that is the number one reason people stop playing. You want to build a community and not destroy it by allowing abuse of the game itself.

I agree with this. Would surly help mix things up for everyone.

[Reitz]

Coffee の投稿を引用：

geozero の投稿を引用：

Agree on nearly all points. I'll add my own rant. These games need to have some procedural randomness on the maps IMO. They are never going to show every building as it was IRL so there's no point in pretending to put a row of square buildings - many without interiors - simply to make a street. It looks - no, it IS - repetitive and would be a hell of a lot better if the towns, terrains, tree placements were more random. And yes it can be done since the assets would be the same, just random. There also needs to be better design so that turning down graphics and seeing a crappy image doesn't give you a tactical advance. You should not be able to see through brush or farther with lower graphics. This is something that all these games have, so while someone buys a super fast PC to view the great graphics touted on game pre-release advertisements, it's the people turning down the settings that are getting all the kills. Seems counter productive, just give me a Minecraft voxel game then and don't waste time developing any graphical views. So IMO get the graphics balanced to player actions or just don't let graphics to be adjusted that much. There's also got to be better game design when it comes to using mics in game, weapons, server balancing and other areas that do nothing but promote abuse and that is the number one reason people stop playing. You want to build a community and not destroy it by allowing abuse of the game itself.

I agree with this. Would surly help mix things up for everyone.

I highly disagree on that people are using the lowest settings to gain advantage.

Developers just did a fix for these so fog couldnt be turned off

Developers made minium shadows low and u cant turn em off

I seriously doubt people are using lowest settings to gain advantage due what errors it gives on distances example some house windows on further ranges look solid texture but appear as windows as you get 100m close. Thats not an advantage..


Why might people be using low settings is primarily because the game is not optimized and before you say it is cause my rig runs it have a look on the support channel. Some people have issues with latest hardware. Its generally the optimization what drives people to use low settings.


High graphic users gain alot of advantages on ranges with their 2/4k monitors and game isnt as pixelated as in 1080p or lower on low and no aa and ssr its literally pixelhunt. Dont blame the players only here


Amyway back to topic.

The game is in need of serious rework if we want it to grow more
In my opinion it needs

- persistent ammunition for AT
(so you dont spawn in with AT ammunition and have to go look for ammo crate)

- ammopoints for logistics
(so the ammoboxes uses points and once player takes ammo it looses points until at 0 meaning there isnt ammo anymore
Example ammobox points 500
One rifleman refill -20 points)

- longer staging phase 2 mins
(planning and forming squads)

- offensive: Remove forward spawns and give one fob for defenders (dynamic battle with a rule that the fob cant be 600m near of attacker captured point)

- improved bullet penetration for rifle calibres

-offensive: Attackers gain tickets from capturing a obj. No time addition fixed time 2h
(in original ps rounds lasted 2h easily and that was fun imo)

- offensive: tiered tanks per map meaning one tank spawner with random tier(light vs light, medium vs medium, heavy vs heavy)

- optimization

- ui changes for sl promoting so the player clearly sees hes been promoted to SL. (text above screen with sound que. Helps a lot for new players)

Or

When sl leaves theres 60 seconds vote and if someone votes yes he becomes sl if theres multiple yes its diceroll if all vote no the kits gonna be switched to riflemen upon death and the squad stays intact if no one votes its a no.

- kit change crate buildable (so you dont have to respawn to change a kit. It has 45 seconds cooldown if you try to change again to prevent abuse)

[yumyum]

Progression like Rising Storm 2 works tbh. Just make cosmetic things to work towards. People will put the time in just to get a new beret or something.

[Andy]

Progression inevitably adds a sense of selfish behaviour.
The reason there's no progression in games that focus so heavily on teamwork is so players arn't bothered when they're asked to do things that are good for the team when they're not upping their K/D ratio.
You inevitably have players looking to themselves, their progression when all that should concern them is playing for the team.
I've yet to see anyone successfully implement a progression in a meaningful way in games where teamwork is it's first priority.
And, any sense of 'weapon unlocks' should be out the window. Weapons are assigned based on role. Any deviation from that only leads to squads not looking like they belong in WW2.
A squad full of STGs and G43s.

[Will_565]

This is just my opinion but a progression system is the last thing this game needs
The lack of a progression system creates a level playing field and reduces elitism and gate keeping by more veteran players as it is harder to distinguish a new player from veteran players
Also a progression system in my mind is just a really really cheap method of player retention that just feels cheesy. Its not the gameplay that keeps you playing but the next thing you unlock is what is. It is best to have high quality gameplay be what makes you play the game
Customisation is just nigh on pointless. A new bit of camo woooo. the devs time could be better spent improving gameplay mechanics or adding new chapters
Not to mention selfishness of people playing for kills and XP instead of playing the point and coordinating with the section
Also customisation will inevitably lead to historical inaccuracy simply because a new variation of existing kit would not be as interesting and desirable so devs put wacky ♥♥♥♥ in

[DMDuncan37]

This type of FPS is not very popular. Unfortunately, against the trend of video games.

Reserved for a small audience and which unfortunately will not appeal to all players and developers / publishers (business model).

This is the big drawback of these games !


As you progress through the levels, the ranks will not change the gameplay at all but should indicate a player's combat experience.
A new recruit will have more interest in joining a higher ranked team to quickly learn how to survive in combat.

This can allow you to unlock skins for the avatar or to have more varied uniforms, helmets ...
A face more marked by fighting, "token" accessories, a less regulatory hairstyle ...

Customizing gear like Hell Let Loose Loadouts is a good idea, but you need to stay consistent and not give the player too much advantage.
Equipment that represents only the experience of a veteran, not advantages in combat

This allows each player to differentiate him from other players.
But it must be kept simple.

Why not several different face skins for an emotional attachment and some accessories.
Nothing is more boring than having a clone among other clones.

Most importantly, constant progression is necessary.
a general, a veteran with 200 hours of play makes no sense and will not be credible.
And gains that favor team actions and not individual actions.
(not like HLL!)

But this takes a lot of work :(

Above all, define the priorities

[BlackLabel]

WladyslawDirtski の投稿を引用：

progression: make ppl earn the right to be a Squad Leader or commander.

i dont like those unlock systems. RO2 had a bearable one but got comical on later levels

[nolaJeff]

Reitz の投稿を引用：

I highly disagree on that people are using the lowest settings to gain advantage.

Developers just did a fix for these so fog couldnt be turned off

Developers made minium shadows low and u cant turn em off

I seriously doubt people are using lowest settings to gain advantage due what errors it gives on distances example some house windows on further ranges look solid texture but appear as windows as you get 100m close. Thats not an advantage..


Why might people be using low settings is primarily because the game is not optimized and before you say it is cause my rig runs it have a look on the support channel. Some people have issues with latest hardware. Its generally the optimization what drives people to use low settings.


High graphic users gain alot of advantages on ranges with their 2/4k monitors and game isnt as pixelated as in 1080p or lower on low and no aa and ssr its literally pixelhunt. Dont blame the players only here

Shrubs and trees do turn off at about 250m on LOW graphics settings. I have recently verified this since the latest patch. So it is still a thing and since there are people that do play in low settings they are in fact gaining an advantage, whether on purpose or not.

They just need to get rid of the LOW graphics settings. There's little difference between LOW and Medium and if their machine can't run medium then the player should probably get a new GPU anyway.

[nolaJeff]

geozero の投稿を引用：

These games need to have some procedural randomness on the maps IMO. They are never going to show every building as it was IRL so there's no point in pretending to put a row of square buildings - many without interiors - simply to make a street. It looks - no, it IS - repetitive and would be a hell of a lot better if the towns, terrains, tree placements were more random. And yes it can be done since the assets would be the same, just random.

Procedural Randomness is a terrible idea for a game like this. No point of putting a row of buildings?? So you're suggesting a randomness to placing buildings in towns? Have you ever been to Europe? I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve but randomness is not the solution.

So while these maps may not be 100% as it was IRL in the 1940s, they are amazingly close. They used topographic maps and pictures from the era to match the look and feel of the locations. Doorworth Castle is spot on to it's real life counter part. However, there is some artistic license on these maps. Only a couple of the maps are fictional, Velmolen and Best, but they at least adhere to the look and feel of European towns.

[Will_565]

the problem with procedural buildings is they will not be a water tight solution it will inevitably lead to random janky building placement and also desyncing with players as they have to load a different map every time leading to players being shot whilst in full cover and players being confused by why they can't kill people they can clearly see but their shots are being stopped by something. Plus on a fixed map the look and feel can be refined and bugs within the design more easily ironed out
Lets not forget it would therefore be physically impossible to optimise maps if they change every round

[Will_565]

DMDuncan37 の投稿を引用：

This type of FPS is not very popular.
As you progress through the levels, the ranks will not change the gameplay at all but should indicate a player's combat experience.
A new recruit will have more interest in joining a higher ranked team to quickly learn how to survive in combat.

This is the internet "higher ranked teams" can lead to gate keeping and elitism no matter how mature a community may seem
New players being dismissed as inept useless piles of ♥♥♥♥ and being kicked from sections because they just bought the game and having a massive label stuck on them that screams inexperience. Loads of players want to help but there will always be that minority who will exploit it.
The phrase "this is why we can't have nice things springs to mind"

[nolaJeff]

Will_565 の投稿を引用：

the problem with procedural buildings is they will not be a water tight solution it will inevitably lead to random janky building placement and also desyncing with players as they have to load a different map every time leading to players being shot whilst in full cover and players being confused by why they can't kill people they can clearly see but their shots are being stopped by something. Plus on a fixed map the look and feel can be refined and bugs within the design more easily ironed out
Lets not forget it would therefore be physically impossible to optimise maps if they change every round

Good points, Will. The fact that you can't optimize a procedural random made map makes his suggestion not just impractical, but impossible.

[DMDuncan37]

Will_565 の投稿を引用：

DMDuncan37 の投稿を引用：

This type of FPS is not very popular.
As you progress through the levels, the ranks will not change the gameplay at all but should indicate a player's combat experience.
A new recruit will have more interest in joining a higher ranked team to quickly learn how to survive in combat.

This is the internet "higher ranked teams" can lead to gate keeping and elitism no matter how mature a community may seem
New players being dismissed as inept useless piles of ♥♥♥♥ and being kicked from sections because they just bought the game and having a massive label stuck on them that screams inexperience. Loads of players want to help but there will always be that minority who will exploit it.
The phrase "this is why we can't have nice things springs to mind"

We can compare BF & PS ? (type of FPS)
that's what I mean.

This represents his experience in the game.
There is no relation between a player's level and his skill in the game.
Not as I imagine.

Are you talking about a bashing veteran like on HLL ?
New players complain about "veterans" so they don't play as a team and don't listen ...
It is justified to filter the players without being sure of the "seriousness" of a player regardless of his level.

I'm sure you wouldn't like to play with people who ignore you, don't communicate in your squad.

And the PS community is more mature so as not to differentiate between new and old players.

HLL's developers have modified their game to satisfy a larger audience.
The game is much more popular but looks more and more like BFV now.

[Reitz]

Something has to be done no matter what to get player numbers up cause those empty servers on weekends (excluding training, event) servers gonna dissapear eventually and we cant get more clans or communities to host servers.

3k players would be good start to get every server populated and maybe lure more communities or clans to host servers.


I have played niche games before and whats not fun in em is being soft locked from playing cause every server is full and rest are either pw or non related servers.

Sure going and seeding would be a good thing to do but i guess many would just rather do something else than wait for the players to pop up.

'its a niche genre game' well squad was niche game aswell (1k population) and look how its popping. Mainly due how much they advertised and refined the game. Ps has as much possibility to gain numbers as squad if they want to do it.

[Blythe]

"Aside from getting that authentic experience you can't get anywhere else"

Lucky for me that's what I want, I really hope PS doesn't go down the arcade route 😞