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The ammunition was nearly impossible to get at the front, and didn't really give them much of an advantage.
Qualifying group was still 2.8 moa for 3 rounds out of 5 round group for a K98 sniper rifle. That's nothing special.
And, the no4 Ts also were taken from production if they showed good accuracy at manufacture, then had stocks made by Holland and Holland.
Most common German scopes were the series of ones made a 4X magnification. Not that different to the 3X of the no32 scope.
So, although i'd like to see the differences on FOV. I think any change in accuracy between the 2 mabee not as historically accurate as is being suggested.
But, i'd agree with Umbrella aswell, there are far more glaring things that should be ahead in the que. Tanks with the wrong guns, MGs with the wrong ammo loadout.
Interview with 3 German snipers
http://histomil.com/viewtopic.php?t=22819
It was 2.3 MOA at 100 meters just to be accepted for sorting.
After that the rifles would be sent to the armourers for refurbishing where the barrel would be free floated and triggers adjusted to the preference of the sniper, in short accuracy would improve further from there'on.
As for the availability of the sniper ammunition, it was available, hence I don't see why it shouldn't be ingame.
That's just it... It wasn't really available most of the time.
Snipers at the front would have had a very tough time getting hold of it. So, it existed, but was rarely available. And, even still. I suspect in game accuracy far exceeds what was actually capable in real world.
It was 2.3 MOA at 100 meters just to be accepted for sorting.
After that the rifles would be sent to the armourers for refurbishing where the barrel would be free floated and triggers adjusted to the preference of the sniper, in short accuracy would improve further from there'on.
As for the availability of the sniper ammunition, it was available, hence I don't see why it shouldn't be ingame. [/quote]
K98k vol. I, directives in TL 1/1003 live fire testing 100 meters 3 of 5 shots in a rectangle measuring 80 x 140 mm, all five within a circle of 120 mm. That roughly equates to 4.1 MOA. This is for the sniper rifle selection. And prior to the scope mounts and scope being mounted on the rifle.
You cannot free float a Kar98k without have a sporterized stock. Kar98's came with 2 barrel bands, the front band held the bayonet lug and the rear one connected the stock to the upper handguard. In all the pictures I've seen never once have I seen a Kar98 with a sporterized stock in WW2. I've also found no documentation were this was done. I do no doubt that snipers had there triggers stoned to make the trigger break more crisp but still to safe standards.
What "sniper" ammunition are you talking about? The only ammunition that I can find that only snipers can use was B - Beobachtung high-explosive incendiary ball but I doubt this was regularly used against infantry.
S.m.E. - Spitzgeschoß mit Eisenkern was the primary round used.
No you can still free float the barrel as the "barrel bands" actually only holds the stock together. It requires some work by a professional armourer, esp. at the front where the band is often resting on the barrel. Once passing the acceptance std. and issued as a sniper rifle the armourer would rework the stock to make sure no part of the barrel rested against it. It's mentioned in Sepp Allerbergers book.
As for the special sniper ammunition, it was a version of the 198 gr s.S. (schwere spitzgeschoss) boat tailed bullet, just without the cannelure and with a more carefully measured propellant charge. It's mentioned in both Sepp's book as well as in Peter Senich's book on the German snipers.
As for the acceptance std. keep in mind that the Germans used a 50% streung std. which works different than the British & US one. Also the Germans didn't discount outliers, where'as the British did.
In the end the though acceptance stds. were very similar, being basically the same ~4.5 MOA for the regular infantry K98k and No.4 Enfield, and ~2.5 MOA for the sniper rifles.
To be specific the K98 had to place 4 out of 5 shots into a 80x140mm rectangle at 100 m, i.e. a 2.9 x 5.0 MOA minimum, where'as the No.4 Enfield had to place 4 out of 5 shots into a 1 x 1.5 inch rectangle at 100 ft, a 3.0 x 6.0 MOA minimum.
That said these are acceptance stds., not measurements of average accuracy, where the K98 is often reputed to be more accurate thanks to the thicker barrel, front locking action and better ammunition for the role.
As for the special sniper ammunition, it was a version of the 198 gr s.S. (schwere spitzgeschoss) boat tailed bullet, just without the cannelure and with a more carefully measured propellant charge. It's mentioned in both Sepp's book as well as in Peter Senich's book on the German snipers.
As for the acceptance std. keep in mind that the Germans used a 50% streung std. which works different than the British & US one. Also the Germans didn't discount outliers, where'as the British did.
In the end the though acceptance stds. were very similar, being basically the same ~4.5 MOA for the regular infantry K98k and No.4 Enfield, and ~2.5 MOA for the sniper rifles.
To be specific the K98 had to place 4 out of 5 shots into a 80x140mm rectangle at 100 m, i.e. a 2.9 x 5.0 MOA minimum, where'as the No.4 Enfield had to place 4 out of 5 shots into a 1 x 1.5 inch rectangle at 100 ft, a 3.0 x 6.0 MOA minimum.
That said these are acceptance stds., not measurements of average accuracy, where the K98 is often reputed to be more accurate thanks to the thicker barrel, front locking action and better ammunition for the role. [/quote]
Front Barrel band on the Kar98K is acts as the bayonet lug and not only attaches to the stock it directly attaches to the barrel. It is a tight slip on. A free floating barrel would have nothing putting pressure on the barrel. The upper handguard also puts pressure on the barrel as there is a ridge just before the rear sight.
The 'effect-firing' s.S. round is a derivative of s.S. Patrone. By 1942 S.m.E. was the primary round as lead was becoming scarce. I also highly doubt that the specific s.S Patrone was being manufactured at great quantities or that most snipers had access to that ammunition.
Accuracy is a mute point being that video games rarely depict this properly.
No the barrel band does not act as a bayonet lug, it's completely seperate from that, and by reworking the stock and attaching a reworked front barrel band you can make it so there's no contact with the barrel there, free floating the barrel. Same story in the back where you can rework the stock to achieve the same. And this was done by the regimental armourers as soon as the rifles were certified for sniper use, as specifically mentioned in Peter Senich's book. Infact on P81 it is made clear that "the barrel must be able to swing freely upon discharge of shot".
First of all s.S. patrone was produced throughout the war and the primary ammunition for snipers until the special ammunition became available later. Secondly the later special 'effect firing' s.S. patrone was made available to snipers in the last quarter of 1943. Infact it is specifically mentioned on P108 in Sepp Allerberger's book "Sniper on the eastern front", that they were given this esp. carefully manufactured ammunition upon completion of their training in 1943.
This ammunition type is also mentioned in Peter Senich's book on P91, where the production of 20 million cartidges pr. month is demanded in July 1944.
That pressure needs to be there for accuracy. You can't just free float any barrel. It doesn't always work. And, rifles of the time had relatively light barrels. Which required pressure from the stock on the barrels. With the no4, free floating the barrels gave the barrels movement that would kill off accuracy. And, bedding pressure moved to the middle of the stock rather than the front was better for accuracy.
I'd like to see that quote in further context. At the moment, i'd suggest that's ambiguous and could be an issue with translation or missing context. You may well be right here. But, the book is too expensive to buy. And, there seems to be no other sources for the information that i can see. Except possibly in another book that's equally expensive anyway...
Is there actually something that makes it more clear?
It's really irrelevant what production was 'demanded' by the Germans during the war. They were often ridiculous flights of fancy. What were the 'actual' production numbers?
And, given the massive supply issues. What they did produce still had to make it to the front.
Even in Sepp Allerberger's book. At Sniper school they are asked to 'frequently beg' the armourer to try and get that ammunition. But, that's the last mention of it during the book.
How is it not clear? Keep in mind that Peter R. Senich was a German American, hence there's little chance of it being a mistranslation.
Also it's been done many a time by people since, along with glass bedding the stock. It requires rework by a professional armourer however, as we're talking modification of the metal bands and stock - not something a lot of people are willing to do to a milsurp in fear of losing its value.
As for the Enfield rifle, I've heard the stories, but 1) the Lee Enfield features a thinner barrel and 2) it was never attempted to fully free float it as you would see on for example a hunting rifle, and that due to how the Enfields stock is designed. I will bet you a lot of money that if you take a No.4 barrel & action and put it onto a different stock where it can be fully free floated, then accuracy will improve, anything else would not make sense. It's the same story for the K98, many of which have been converted to hunting rifles with free floated barrels on a new stock for the same reason.
That being said, fed with the same quality ammunition I believe these rifles were/are essentially the same accuracy wise, hence I don't really want to see a difference here ingame. It's just that in practice during WW2 the K98k sharpshooter rifles were more accurate due to the purpose specific ammunition they were fed.
The point is that it was available and used in large numbers, all evidence available points to this. Otherwise they wouldn't be handed over such ammunition upon completion of training. It is stated in the same book that the continued delivery of such ammunition is of paramount importance. On the contrary there's no direct evidence to support your claim that it was NOT normally available.
Furthermore as described in the book before this ammunition was available regular s.S. Patrone was used, and continued to be so after 1942 as it was substantially more precise than S.m.E.. And there was still plenty of s.S. Patrone in stock for the sniper role such as it is many orders of magnitude less consumptious of ammo than regular infantry (hence why you can even find so much of it today).
Anyway this thread was mainly about the scopes, as I find it incredibly unrealistic that the German sniper rifle ingame is given a scope with less FOV than its British counterpart when reality was the reverse, with many of the German rifles even being equipped with large FOV 6x Zielsechs scopes, like for example Sepp's rifle.
Furthermore the British sniper ingame can stay scoped in whilst bolting, whilst the German snipers cannot. Another odd advantage added for the British.
PS: The fact that eye focus zoom is different between weapons is pretty ridiculous as well, as if your eyes suddenly became better with a rifle than an SMG, or even another rifle.
Everyone that knows about firearms, knows what a 'free floated barrel' is, and what it's called. it's called a 'free floated barrel' yet. That's not what he says. If you've got the book, info either side of that will help. To me, the quote above, sounds more like how snipers are supposed to set the rifle up in position rather than referencing a free floated barrel.
What evidence?
Specifically, what evidence is there that it was supplied 'to the front' in large numbers?