What's up with the Panzerfaust?

[Butt Spenza]

So even the weakest Panzerfaust (Panzerfaust 30) had a penetration of around 200mm IRL, which is more or less on par with the Panzerschreck.
So why does a Stug on the testing range can take all four shots to its lower front plate and still be fine? But the Panzerschreck kills it with two hits? Wasn't this game meant to be realistic?

Yes, I know that the Panzerfaust would be overpowered then, but its range is really bad and the amount of ammo could be reduced to three or even two.

[Silky]

Because tankers would cry even more than they do now. It's game breaking that tanks can survive multiple point blank shots as it is. 200m is nearly impossible for AT, but correct penetration would finally remove all the lone wolf tanks we see right now because they'd actually have to do their job and support infantry.

[Rixote]

Tanks are a very controversial topic in this game. I for one abhorr Panzerfaust damage right now, it should be double of what it is but Tank players think the opposite. Yesterday playing with a Panzerschrek on Arnhem I put my AT mine on the back of a churchill (which that alone IRL would have rekt it beyond repair) and then shot both my rockets at his ass and he didn't die (engine down). I don't want this game to be a Tank simulation but it is kind of stupid that it takes both AT the team has to take down the Churchill or a combination of a tank and an AT.

[Nick]

i have a feeling tanks are going to change alot once armored mode comes out and more and more feedback comes in, even more so since they changed their dmg model

[DeRossa]

Originally posted by Silky:

Because tankers would cry even more than they do now. It's game breaking that tanks can survive multiple point blank shots as it is. 200m is nearly impossible for AT, but correct penetration would finally remove all the lone wolf tanks we see right now because they'd actually have to do their job and support infantry.

Any suggestion to remove the lone wolf AT? ;)

[DeRossa]

Originally posted by Rixote:

Tanks are a very controversial topic in this game. I for one abhorr Panzerfaust damage right now, it should be double of what it is but Tank players think the opposite. Yesterday playing with a Panzerschrek on Arnhem I put my AT mine on the back of a churchill (which that alone IRL would have rekt it beyond repair) and then shot both my rockets at his ass and he didn't die (engine down). I don't want this game to be a Tank simulation but it is kind of stupid that it takes both AT the team has to take down the Churchill or a combination of a tank and an AT.

A single guy cant equal a machine that give away 10 tickets once blowed up, this is gameplay balance, simple as that, actually they couldnt do any better than this, armored sections are walking coffins already despite all the nerfs and buffs, mostly because of the AT hive swarms of lone bees and theyr sucidial tendencies to save the queen,these stingy sucidal lone bees are hard for the tanks to find costs only one tickets and have the resapwn time of a regular infantry(very low compared to a tank), plus add to that that the general ppl playng this game are mostly blind and one guy can easily blow tanks and also ♥♥♥♥ entire squads covering that tank, be grateful enough that rocket propelled grenades are operated by a single guy, they are weightless and you can pack all of those nasty things and gadgets in your pocket like a monthy python sketch.

[Git Face]

Originally posted by Motorola:

Originally posted by Rixote:

Tanks are a very controversial topic in this game. I for one abhorr Panzerfaust damage right now, it should be double of what it is but Tank players think the opposite. Yesterday playing with a Panzerschrek on Arnhem I put my AT mine on the back of a churchill (which that alone IRL would have rekt it beyond repair) and then shot both my rockets at his ass and he didn't die (engine down). I don't want this game to be a Tank simulation but it is kind of stupid that it takes both AT the team has to take down the Churchill or a combination of a tank and an AT.

A single guy cant equal a machine that give away 10 tickets once blowed up, this is gameplay balance, simple as that, actually they couldnt do any better than this, armored sections are walking coffins already despite all the nerfs and buffs, mostly because of the AT hive swarms of lone bees and theyr sucidial tendencies to save the queen,these stingy sucidal lone bees are hard for the tanks to find costs only one tickets and have the resapwn time of a regular infantry(very low compared to a tank), plus add to that that the general ppl playng this game are mostly blind and one guy can easily blow tanks and also ♥♥♥♥ entire squads covering that tank, be grateful enough that rocket propelled grenades are operated by a single guy, they are weightless and you can pack all of those nasty things and gadgets in your pocket like a monthy python sketch.

Yeah, some of my games resemble a Benny Hill sketch. AT troops chasing my tank around the map. Queue the music...

[Butt Spenza]

"A single guy cant equal a machine that give away 10 tickets once blowed up, this is gameplay balance"

Except that the tank kills infantry worth 20 tickets before.

[Nick]

Does the new dmg model have weak spots that if you know where to shoot you can take down these tanks in 1 or 2 shots? Thats always been the "balance" that i knew

[DeRossa]

Originally posted by Butt Spenza:

"A single guy cant equal a machine that give away 10 tickets once blowed up, this is gameplay balance"

Except that the tank kills infantry worth 20 tickets before.

I rarely see armored sections making more than 30, 40 casualties per match, guys that do more than that are considered aces.

On the other hand, i see the tanks blowing up like a new year eve and orthodox christmas week in Moscow, so even if they do make those 20 kills they stil die 4-5 times on average ( dozens more if you have the autistic armored sections where nobody have a mic and the gunner is Andrea Bocelli) i dont have raw data with me but ill throw a number there: armored sections give away 50 tickets or more on a regular basis, 80% of times because muscular guys weightlifting bazookas like nothing and sprinting like usain bolt.

Translated= they give away ALOT of tickets, people dont understand how arcadey the AT champs are.

[[☆] Zephyr]

add in the total fearlessness of a digital infantryman. the AT guy dies, theres another one in 60 seconds or less.
tank crews have the sight limitations on par with realisim, infantrymen are fearless and tipicly less than 500M away from a respawn, the tank is on a longer timer, and has to cross country to get back into the fight.

so yeah the balance considerations don't seem to take a lot of thease thoughts into consideration.

as well: you can't fire out of any of the small arms ports or drop grenades out of the hull, and the tank CO cant spray with their SMG.
the tank is at a disadvantage, a good crew can compensate a lot, it is a tank.

[Wabbit]

I can see good points made on both sides. I just want to mention 32-38 players on a team will be infantry. If Tanks rule the game most players will stop playing and look for another infantry focus'd game. No one wants to be bots for the tank crews to harvest. Be careful what you wish for. KDR isnt everything, the supression from a tank and its mere presence is enough to force an enemy away from an objective and win a cap. You just need infantry there to take advantage of it. I so often see infantry attacking one side while the tank is on the other on its own....pointless.

Tanks stand a better chance with the infantry (yes its no gaurantee, far from it) and the infantry should take better care of the tanks (many dont). A good team will work together well enough to be mutually supportive with its assets so perhaps more active communication from tank crews would help. I often find tankers are very quiet and only the infantry SL's chat on command channel. I get the noise in a tank can make any comms difficult but more focus on working with a nearby section will create more trust between both Infantry and Tank crews.

I dont think making Piat, Faust and Shrecks 4 hits to kill is a good idea at all. hit a tank in the right spot with the right weapon and it should go up or be disabled. Lets see what the new tank damage model brings.

[Silky]

Originally posted by Motorola:

Any suggestion to remove the lone wolf AT? ;)

1) If a tank stays with infantry, like he should, he wouldn't have to worry about lone wolf AT.

2) Roll back the way it was before the nerf so every squad has an AT. Having 2 AT per team they're forced to lone wolf it most of the time because they can't be restricted to their own squads personal protection against tanks, they need to protect the entire team. I see it every day, a tank just rushes up and both AT's are across the map and the tank just sits there shelling everyone. AT wasn't OP, it was stupid tankers rushing past their infantry and getting destroyed.

[Wabbit]

You have a good point Silky. I miss my AT guy. He pops by to say hi now and then.

[nolaJeff]

Just posted this on Discord in response to someone claiming the Bazooka is stronger to the Panzerschreck, but is relevant here. Probably all the AT launchers have the same strength:

Just did a test at the US Range - Bazooka vs the Panzerschreck: The result is that they both did the same damage. They both took 3 shots to kill a Panzer III from the front. They both took 3 shots to kill a Panzer IV from the rear. So I wouldn't say the bazooka is stronger, but it shouldn't be as strong as a Schreck. Obviously both results are historically inaccurate. Hopefully this will be rectified once they re-release the Vehgel patch. The developers did mention that the armor penetrations were tweaked relative to front/side/rear of armored vehicles.

[Frenchy56]

Originally posted by nolaJeff:

Obviously both results are historically inaccurate. .

Debatable. Historically crews would simply evacuate rather than keep fighting and wait for a catastrophic explosion. Rocket launchers aren't as effective as they make it in the movies, either. 3 shots to completely destroy a medium tank isn't too far-fetched, especially for the M1A1 Bazooka.

Of course that changes a lot when you're at point-blank range with a clear angle on its ammo rack.