Specific Feedback and Recommendation for Sniper Class

[Multifaced]

Currently the same person can hog the sniper class all game long. This is not much fun for all the other players who would like a chance at playing sniper and never can.

One, because other people are always faster to secure the class but also Secondly, because even if the sniper dies, they keep their class. It should take it away from them, and open up to a different player. Or give them one respawn as sniper before they lose the class, and have to play something else for the rest of the match and give someone else a turn/chance at playing the class.

This way other players can try classes that are otherwise hogged by the same players. Currently, I've gone very long without being able to play the sniper class at all. In fact I haven't been able to play it at all today, that's hours unable to play a class that should be accessible to everyone at least once in a while, not never... Given this is my favourite class, and that I can't play it because everyone else hogs it. You can probably understand my frustration. I don't want to hog it for myself, and I don't want others to hog it for themselves. Just want to have a chance for myself and everyone to try it for a while at least once or twice in a gaming session.

Sucks bigtime that the limited gametime i have to play the game, i cannot play my fav class at all. At least a couple of turns would be nice.

Please balance this to make it fair for this class to be shared better between the players in a match. Otherwise people like myself will just leave the game and go play another game where the sniper class isn't hogged for hours and days and you can never play it. I know that seems a bit extreme, but i like to try different classes through out my play session, not be excluded from some all game session. Surely this will make sense to someone out there?

[Wabbit]

I respect what you're sayig GWolf. Fun is important but so is the right player base. It ok not to like this game or parts of it. The Op isn’t alone in wanting this specific change and that’s fine too. I don’t have a problem with it I just tried to explain how it can work and share an alternative experience.

The game is designed to appeal to a certain type of player and offers a specific experience. That’s it’s selling point and it’s not a very popular one in today’s market. The studio know that and they knew the risks. There are safer bets money wise so I support PG because I love the format of this game.

As for the OP’s issue, They are not looking for a solution. They havent acknowledged it as a problem becuase there isnt one. The OP may want his own sniper section but thats not a game issue thats a player request.

The sniper is part of the section thats how it works and it works really well. If you know what your doing and you have a competent SL its great. The OP can get what he wants if he makes some concessions to support the section, its not always possible for a sniper to do that and thats fine. same as any other kit that is seperated from the section. Its give and take is all. Remember it’s not the SL the sniper is supporting, it’s the whole section and nearby assets. If my guys are in trouble I work hard on comms to get the support we need, a radio, a tank, am AT guy, strafing run, arty, smoke, reinforcements, supplies, ammo, canteen refills, fire support, the list is long. The SL coordinates forces on the ground and controls the flow of information. They are a bottleneck and when they get overloaded they get stressed and are therefore much more likely to lose it, say something bad in the moment etc you get the drift, making mistakes is part of the game we all do it. The sl is just more prone to it. So it takes understanding and patience to be good at it from everyone.
The OP has it the wrong way around, the SL dedicates his entire game time to supporting everyone around him, it’s the most unselfish role IF they are doing it right. We all experience different examples of SL which is why I suggested the OP had many bad experiences earlier. Mine is limited to be fair because I do it so much myself.

PS not a game for solo play its a team focused game. If the studio change it everytime someone asks for medals, unlocks, skins, choose any kit they want or more stats, independence from everyone else etc then it becomes another arcade FPS. It loses its niche and its intended player base, it will become like the rest. Why bother making PS? Well its not like the others thats why so lets not break it.

A games success isnt judged by how many play it, that would support its financial success. But many people have bought a crap game. For me I love PS, its my fav game since the august Beta so for me its a massive success.
The Studio are players, they love it, they are excited about it. they have said a few times if they were only in it for the money they would not pick a risky niche like this. To them PS is a success and they can build on it.

To quote Breizhoo the lead dev on discord yesterday:
“The team is doing its best to do our dream game. We are glad that we found people with a similar state of mind for gaming, since this is very very niche it was a riskee bet to make.”

This game appeals to a certain niche player, someone who wants a team experience over soloing in games like BF V. The game expects a bit more maturity than CoD or BF.

Every class is at the mercy of bad SL to some degree its not a sniper only issue. And every SL is at the mercy of bad section members who dont listen or cooperate. Its not about bad snipers or arrogant SL's its about being respectful, cooperative and understanding what the game is about.

[Rixote]

REDi1R PTE Multifaced eredeti hozzászólása:

`kev1nn1g ~WORLD JUNIORS~ eredeti hozzászólása:

My question is, why is it I've never heard you make the same argument about any other class? If the sniper sometimes knows better than SL, doesn't the medic, radioman, AT, sapper and MG also know better (sometimes) then SL? I hope your going to also defend those classes as well, to make their own assessments about what are the priorities.

That isn't the topic.

Squad Leaders rarely kick another member of their squad for performing their role and doing their job. But snipers get kicked even while performing their role and doing the right thing. Because of this clear hatred bias against the class, even the preference of some squad leaders to have no snipers in their squad. So this is why I focus on this as the topic matter. You never hear squad leaders asking for no medics. You always hear them begging for medics.

Because the abuse is mostly towards snipers, not the other classes in the squad. So that is the topic. Why would I want to ask for medics and other classes to be put in their own seperate squad? that would make zero sense as a medic and zero sense as a squad leader.

But for a sniper it makes perfect sense for both, sniper and squad leader.

But squad leaders aren't out there abusing the other classes, they are doing it to the sniper class. Therefore the reason why I made the relevant suggestion specific for the sniper class.

If squad leaders, never abused this power and snipers and squad leaders, always got along perfectly, i would never had a reason to even create this topic. But sadly this abuse happens often enough, not always, but it happens often enough to be a problem worth discussing, so here we are discussing a potential practical solution.

look in a perfect world, i would agree, snipers remain in the squad. Hell I love playing that style sometimes, when I stay close to a really good squad leader, and we do amazing things together. But i don't need to be in the same squad to still do that with a good squad leader, as a sniper.

But If I'm a radio man or medic, then I need to be in the squad. It's just totally different classes that get treated differently and have very differet roles.

Because Medics are essential, marksmen are NOT. And Wabbit is a hell of a guy

[Multifaced]

I think that some people like things even if they are not the best they can be.

Because they are afraid of change. Despite that change being for the better and having very good reasons for the change. And barely any bad reasons, or at least nothing worth resisting the change so dramatically.

It is a good point about Hell Let Loose Andy, I think they have it right. And Post Scriptum has a chance to also get it right. And do it even better if they follow my recommendation in full.

Usually when this kind of debate happens, some of the people arguing against such changes don't actually have any valid arguments, because their arguments are lost on just pure emotion and personal preference/bias. They don't actually have anything of value to add to the discussion, other than no. Because i said no. Which is just a childish way to discuss topics, and then when they get called out on that, they begin their usualy attempts to discredit the person behind the suggestions for change, and they attack them personally. I've been around the block a couple times, i know how people are. Especially the "gang" mentality. They are trying everything they can to discredit me and to make themselves look more credible. It's just politics. And honestly, I'm not here for the politics. I'm here to be direct about the issue and explain the potential solutions and discuss the pros and cons associated, when they are actually relevant and valid. Sadly, I have to go through the flames these pathetic people put me through, just to help a game that they would rather kick me out of instead of allowing me to contribute to help improve it.

Change doesn't come easy, there is always resistance, but if you look at it logically.
That's how responsible decisions are made. You have to look at all the reasoning and the pros and cons in full.

So let's look at what we have so far for the arguments for and against.

-------------

For:

1. Sniper no longer has to put up with random kicks and abuse, ruining player experience due to other player bias, hatred towards their class choice or disagreement on class application

2. Sniper can now place markers on the map, huge advantage and value for their entire team, their role becomes more realistic as they are providing more intel for the entire team.

3. More players have an opportunity at playing sniper throughout matches, instead of missing out on playing that class for extended periods in their gaming session.

4. For certain players, like myself, it's a good break up from all the squinting with the Iron Sight, so much better (eye health wise) to have increased opportunity to play the sniper class.

5. No more conflict within infantry squads about snipers and what they should be doing. Because they decide on their own now and have full autonomy. No longer limited by an infantry squad leader that doesn't know how to interact with snipers. Better for everybody.

6. Increased player satisfaction both for snipers and the infantry squads and their squad leaders. Results in increased player retention.

7. A great addition to command comms, because the sniper is usually the source of great intel for the entire team.

8. Snipers can take their orders directly from Commander, or work closely with squad leads at their discretion. A more appropriate relationship between these classes.

==========

Against:

1. Potential that one extra person in command comms could be a problem. I don't agree with this. But it is a potential risk. Because if the sniper spams the command channel it could be a problem. But so far, from my experience, the squad leaders are the main problem in spamming comms. Whether adding the sniper dedicated squad to this is a problem or not, is actually unknown, and it would have to be tested to be seen. Although I doubt it would be a problem. It would only be one extra person. We aren't adding in an extra 5 squads. But people exagerate their fears, so here it is on the list.

2. Apparently if the sniper role is seperated the argument from people is that other classes should also be separated. Not sure how this makes any sense to anyone. But here it is. Some people might think that more classes in the squad will be seperated. Although they won't that would be silly lol

3. The game will lose it's team orientation. Again, not sure how this claim is substantiated, other than someone said it. But if we look at the pros, it is clear, how team work is actually improved, not the other way around.

4. The game will lose realism and won't be special anymore. Again, not sure how this actually happens, so will just have to imagine it is a credible concern in someones head until they actually explain it.

5. No to players sharing the sniper class more. Again no reason given, just because. Not a very good argument, but it's here.

6. The person suggesting these changes had a bad experience and we shouldn't change something just because of one bad experience. Well actually, I have seen other people also experience it, and it hasn't been just one isolated incident for myself and for others, so this isn't that uncommon, if it was, wouldn't have brought it up.

7. The sniper will turn into a lonewolf and won't help the team if we put them in their own squad. Well if you already accuse them of being lonewolfs, how is it that putting them in another squad going to also make them a selfish lonewolf. It seems people are inexperienced with the sniper class, so they make wild arguments against it. Truth is, sniper will still perform their role just fine, and actually have tools to perform it even better, without the hiccups caused by incompetent squad leaders.

8. People will play nice, we don't need to change anything. Clearly, from our exchanges, people are really nice and play nice. Clearly, if they did, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But clearly people do have disagreements in a war game, even when on the same team. What a surprise this must be to some people that some people don't play nice. I mean if people have such an openly self admited hatred for the sniper class, how can it actually surprise anyone when they hear about snipers being abused by ingame mechanics.

9. Guy recommending these changes has long text messages, i'm not going to read them, but I will reply to them and falsely accuse them of saying things he didn't say, and act like the bad things he said about squad leaders are directed at me and turn this into a flame war, because that is a good argument. This just makes me laugh. I mean if I was some idiot recommending some stupid changes, I would completely get it. But this change isn't anyhing drastic. It's something already in another game like Hell Let Loose, and with my recommendation it would be slightly tweaked to be even better.

------------------------

Bottom Line

The arguments against are actually so bad, that they double up as more arguments for the proposed change. If I was a developer reading this, that would be my take away. At least if I didn't experience the game the same way a random player might and wasn't aware of this sniper bashing culture in their game.

This change would be very welcome and benefit the entire community, the game and future players.

[Wabbit]

If the OP is reading my posts can I suggest you post your feedback or suggestion on the PS discord #feedback channel. The studio don’t respond to feedback but they do read it, other on #general channel may discuss it and comment on the idea but be respectful as there are many moderators and they will take action promptly.

Oh and keep it to a sentence or two it’s not a forum there is a very low limit on number of words. It’s more like texting ;)