Yes the Tiger can be knocked out from any angle by a Sherman.

[Feebs]

Not only by its 76mm and the Tommy's 17 pounder for the Firefly but even the Standard shorter 75mm had more then enough firepower to knock out a tiger in all but the front hull/turret [in which case HVAP would be needed].

The front hull of all Tiger I variants had only 100mm of armor max, 50mm on sides/rear. All 3 of those cannons can easily bust right through 100mm without a sweat at 500m range with the 17pdr easily up to 2km.

There. Super Tiger myth is busted. Nipping this in the bud. Hope to see less crying now from wehraboos when this game goes into EA and they find themselves and their tiger dead when they try to engage a Sherman or any other tank without angling their hull to a diamond-facing.

[[L]Sanders]

B... bu... but FURY! lol

[Andy]

I agree that history distorts the disparity between the 2. But there are a couple of errors here.
The 75mm never got sabot rounds and mostly couldn't penetrate the Tiger past 100M (From the front) Some varients of the 75mm gun wouldn't even manage that.

See penetration figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75_mm_Gun_M2/M3/M6

Also, David Renders book (tank action) has an example of a tiger having 10 X AP rounds fired at it from 100 yards (from a Sherman 75) and none of them penetrated.

John Foleys book (Mailed fist) Has a first hand example of a Churchill armed with a 75mm (British gun, but same ammo as US 75) getting 3 AP rounds off at a tiger from < 100 yards and didn't penetrate.

David Render goes on to suggest that the 75s in his unit would fire HE rounds at tigers.
If you can't penetrate them. You can damage periscopes and tracks and disable them or force them to retrete.

But the 17lb and US 76 wouldn't have had trouble.

But you need to remember, the discarding sabot in the firefly couldn't hit a barn door at 1000 yards.
Instructions were issued not to use them passed 500 yards. Would penetrate a tiger 2 comfortabley though.

[Eisen]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Feebs:

Not only by its 76mm and the Tommy's 17 pounder for the Firefly but even the Standard shorter 75mm had more then enough firepower to knock out a tiger in all but the front hull/turret [in which case HVAP would be needed].

The front hull of all Tiger I variants had only 100mm of armor max, 50mm on sides/rear. All 3 of those cannons can easily bust right through 100mm without a sweat at 500m range with the 17pdr easily up to 2km.

There. Super Tiger myth is busted. Nipping this in the bud. Hope to see less crying now from wehraboos when this game goes into EA and they find themselves and their tiger dead when they try to engage a Sherman or any other tank without angling their hull to a diamond-facing.

if its the Firefly or 76mm US Sherman its Normal !

and the Normal can it because Balancing !

[Necramonium™]

You have to consider, that the game has to be balanced, the Shermans get their speed with a lower amount of armor, the Tigers get their thicker armor but less speed and a slow turret.

[Ocelot]

Why balance? Make as accurate as possible! (Looking forward for IS2 - someday in the far future)

But you guys bring it already to the point - the 75mm couldnt penetrate the front of a Tiger.

[A North Korean Pickle]

Its not going to be like war thunder guise, so spare your autistic enthusiasm for later

[8mob8]

at distance tho........most games arent gonna have maps big enough for any of these vehicles to stretch their legs

[rjmassive]

no just no

[[Nex] Phoenix]

The main reason for the Tigers real life strength came from aiming being a good deal harder. With a computer game, its target, aim, click... This sadly takes the Tiger off its high pedestal, as you're much more likely to be acurate with the automated system. However, I find it difficult to believe that the lower velocity 75 sherman's would be able to damage the Tiger from the front at any good deal of range, and as for cromwells... HA, don't make me laugh (yes, you could bring up the 131... but that was because a lucky shot jammed the turret, and the ♥♥♥♥♥ crew bailed). The 17 pounder though of course was a Tiger killer, and the 76mm was able to get the job done as well. Both still had less chance of penning the front, but it was not imposible. Really, anyone who drives up to the front of a Tiger is a fool, as you have more chance at living if you flank the sucker. What I do hope to find though is that the 17pdr is somewhat inacurate, as it was irl. Truely, with the teamwork that will hopefully be present in the game, minor things like this would just be easily overcome. (i.e. spot for the Tiger so it doesn't get flanked and etc.)

[Andy]

Diposting pertama kali oleh HOGHawkeye:

The main reason for the Tigers real life strength came from aiming being a good deal harder. With a computer game, its target, aim, click... This sadly takes the Tiger off its high pedestal, as you're much more likely to be acurate with the automated system. However, I find it difficult to believe that the lower velocity 75 sherman's would be able to damage the Tiger from the front at any good deal of range, and as for cromwells... HA, don't make me laugh (yes, you could bring up the 131... but that was because a lucky shot jammed the turret, and the ♥♥♥♥♥ crew bailed). The 17 pounder though of course was a Tiger killer, and the 76mm was able to get the job done as well. Both still had less chance of penning the front, but it was not imposible. Really, anyone who drives up to the front of a Tiger is a fool, as you have more chance at living if you flank the sucker. What I do hope to find though is that the 17pdr is somewhat inacurate, as it was irl. Truely, with the teamwork that will hopefully be present in the game, minor things like this would just be easily overcome. (i.e. spot for the Tiger so it doesn't get flanked and etc.)

The 17lb was only inaccurate with sabot rounds.
Otherwise it was an excellent gun in both penetration and accuracy.

And the Sabot rounds were so few in number as to not be a significant part of the battlefild.
Figures for the US army from Stphen Zeloga's book (armoured thunderbolt) suggest that by the end of Febuary 1945, Most US tanks and tank destroyers had only recieved 5 rounds. That was 1 a month since they were introduced.
I don't know the exact date of issue to the British Army, but it would appear the US didn't get the sabot rounds till October, the month after Market Garden.


The action that saw the Death of Micheal Wittmann also saw the destruction of 3 other tigers. Although not Wittmann, the other 3 were all taken out but a Firefly at < 800 yards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG3meKdMc4


Edit, the below article suggest that the 6lb gun would have had sabot rounds available from D-day.
But the 17lb rounds look like October, and then issued to Royal artillery antitank regiments. (which could include M10 and Archer regiments)
But Firefly is gonna look like late October, early November at best for sabot rounds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/06/a2187506.shtml

[Lord Enforcer]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Andy:

I agree that history distorts the disparity between the 2. But there are a couple of errors here.
The 75mm never got sabot rounds and mostly couldn't penetrate the Tiger past 100M (From the front) Some varients of the 75mm gun wouldn't even manage that.

See penetration figures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75_mm_Gun_M2/M3/M6

Also, David Renders book (tank action) has an example of a tiger having 10 X AP rounds fired at it from 100 yards (from a Sherman 75) and none of them penetrated.

John Foleys book (Mailed fist) Has a first hand example of a Churchill armed with a 75mm (British gun, but same ammo as US 75) getting 3 AP rounds off at a tiger from < 100 yards and didn't penetrate.

David Render goes on to suggest that the 75s in his unit would fire HE rounds at tigers.
If you can't penetrate them. You can damage periscopes and tracks and disable them or force them to retrete.

But the 17lb and US 76 wouldn't have had trouble.

But you need to remember, the discarding sabot in the firefly couldn't hit a barn door at 1000 yards.
Instructions were issued not to use them passed 500 yards. Would penetrate a tiger 2 comfortabley though.

--------------------------------------------

You are 100% right

Feebs is partially correct!

[Andy]

https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/chieftain/chieftains-hatch-us-guns-vs-german-armour-part-1/

Real world penetration tests when you get further down.

Might be interesting for anyone that can read it all ;-)

[Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus]

I can't wait to hear the screams of the allies when my Tiger rolls into view.
"OH HORSE RADDISH IT'S A BLOODY TIGER. RETREAT MEN, RETREAT" says everyone in my way

[Feebs]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus:

I can't wait to hear the screams of the allies when my Tiger rolls into view.
"OH HORSE RADDISH IT'S A BLOODY TIGER. RETREAT MEN, RETREAT" says everyone in my way

Lol.. Okay. Seconds later you end up like that ♥♥♥♥♥ Whitman and his crew: burning alive in their tiger because they blindly charged a British-held village while everyone else in his unit smartly stayed back.

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Feebs:

Lol.. Okay. Seconds later you end up like that ♥♥♥♥♥ Whitman and his crew: burning alive in their tiger because they blindly charged a British-held village while everyone else in his unit smartly stayed back.

Oh wow. Leave it to a pretentious keyboard warrior like yourself to assert why he's a better tank commander than the Greatest Tank Ace of WW2. And you wonder why people scoff and laugh when you open your mouth.