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In my 10 day victory I used a wizard and waited for the phantoms to get lured away by a few marauding enemy heros. You'll want to use invis on everything the wizard can see however as they are very suicidal. If you send rangers to capture it you'll have to bump the reward money up some since rangers are stingy, something like 400-600
I assume for RTA you can't use super inconsitent stuff (3 day is possibles are possible if you reset until you get a close spawn according to the old Cyberlore website)
The ring site can spawn in 9 places - The 4 map edges in the cardinal directions, the Center of the map, and these 4 positions that are 1/4 horizional 1/4 vertical. It takes a little repeating to get a good mental memory of how far from the edge they are. I place explore flags, by double clicking the minimap, so I usually place the 1/4 flags a little extra inwards to be safe.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1355604556
Coincidentally, Flagging in a big diamond shape roughly on these spaces (leaving the center unflagged) will help prevent Heroes from fleeing in terror while exploring - This is due to the main monster spawn paths being straight diagnol and crossing over the middle. Rogue's will usually explore outer flags during the first monster spawns.
If a rogue grabs some of the flags, but doesn't complete the loop, it's usually better to replace them, just to force rogue safety, since taking a straight line from the palace to the back flags usually leads to them fleeing in terror instead of explore. This also allows the back flags to remain at 100 gold.
This will usually find the ring site in 2-6 days, even if an early minotaur or something happens. I usually check the middle last.
Using invisibility on the phantoms is good to pick up the ring, but if they're already berserking, then they won't pick up artifcat - It usually isn't too much of a problem to make a "second wave" of heroes, but their is a more gold effiecent way.
Gnomes can pick up the ring - Gnomes have a lot of special AI properties while they are building or pathing with the intent to build -
Simply placing the foundations of 1 or 2 statues can bring a gnome to a ring site of any distance. (although you can simply recruit them en-masse from the three hovels once the ring site is destroyed).
When a gnome closes in - you can either manually demolish the statue or let them completely finish it. Deomolshing it too early will cause them to turn back. They finish it faster than invisiblity lasts, anyway
Gnomes do not evaulate nearby things during their building routine, so they can get close to the phantoms without fleeing in terror. It's pretty managble even while the game speed is maxed.
It also means things are more consistent - The huge amount of gold spent to invisble on the phantoms AND a Rouge usually gets one or two attempts (before letting the market's build up) , while with gnome strategies, you can try at least 4-6 times on the starting gold + event gold alone.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1355605202
There are only two technical things to watch out for -
A: Relying solely on wizards for destryoing the ring site makes it important to find it before medusas spawn. - Forcing an invisible wizard to kill it despite monster presence is still faster than rogues.
B: If ring site appears within the lair distance of ratmen (due to other palace) or goblins you can't build the wizard guild directly on top of it.
Both can be taken care of by paying attention. - Ranger's guilds and Marketplace shouldn't be neccesary.
I've beaten in multiple times in the past two hours in (mostly) 8-11 days, so I feel pretty confident in this. - It isn't too much faster than having markets and trying to get an invisible rouge into the site, but I find that even on slowest game speed, I can't get the actual rogue that kills the ring site to not flee in terror. Usually a "follow up rogue" responding to an explore flag on top of the ring site can do it.
When I do try this, I use about 3 100 gold flags to get the rogues to curve around any lairs on the way to the site.
It's faster in Game time, but I can only do it on normal game speed. Gnomes are much easier to manage, really.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1355660077
http://www.cyberlore.com/Majesty/phpBB2/
Heroic Achievements forum
Any of the World Record threads
Explanations on how the quest was done that fast would probably require digging in those forums though.
The gnome quirks are helpful to know I hadn't thought of that yet. This is definitely one of the first levels I'd want to complete in a full southern campaign RTA run though.
I managed to beat it in 5 days, which was an experience, but I think the safest version of the strategy should work for repeatable 9-11 day clears.
The main problem is what side of the map the dragon spawns on after you get the sword.
- Sides / behind palace / farthest
Palace
you can have Solari at levels 5-7 from fairgrounds since they aren't needed for exploration after you have rogues (enough to live 2 hits between Temple Healing)
Temple healed Solari could beat Vendrall if you had unlimited time, but unfortunately their damage is low, so trying to solely rely on this will cause the other dragons/minotaurs to attack the palace which will go down before Vendrall does.
Farthest
he will usually get stuck on the dwarven fortress. Immediately casting winged feet on the lvl 25 dwarf will let him defend home. He and the fort togheter will usually do 90-100 HP damage to Vendrall before dying with no spell assitance. This makes all later strategies only need 400 HP to kill Vendral, so it's almost always good RTA.
Sides
Vendrall will unpredictably attack one of wizards / temple to agrela group / temple to lunorod group.
The lunord group is usually in between the wizard guild and the palace - The lvl25 adept can tank the Vendral for a long time with temple healing, but he will kill him back very slowly, so slow that random stray minotaur/dragons might kill the temple to agrela.
If Vendrall attacks the Temple to Agrela first the map can become nearly unwinnable, unless he's weakened to about 100-150 and spamming lvl 1 heroes at him becomes barely possible.
If Vendrall attacks the Wizard's guild (without the strategy below) - The LVL 20 wizard can shave 300 HP off in the 3-ish invisiblities you can cast before the guild is destoryed (due to lack of target for vendrall and his guard) . The wizard dies afterwards due to lack of invisibility, but with such low HP on Vendrall left any Solari/Adept will usually finish him off when he goes to the next building group.
The Lvl 20 Wizard can also temple heal through vendrall. This can let him do the full 500 HP to Vendral, but is extremely random. He can live any 1 hit, but if fighting both Vendrall and a normal dragon at the same time (likely) or if Venral uses his normal attack and his Area of effect spell at the same time the wizard will still die. - If this is attempted at all, trying to time heals is pointless. This requires spam click on the portrait regardless of looking at the wizard's health (and very fast too- the duoblehit due to AOE+normal has about 1/4 second interval).
This brings me to my main strategies.
The wizard is obviously the best damage dealer, but cannot tank Vendral - Letting the wizard fight Vendral while he is targeting lvl5-7 Solari or Lvl 25 Adept or Buildings is much more reliable. Wizard tanking with Invisiblity instead of healing doesn't normally work either, since the guild HP will run out before Vendrall is dead.
The best way to force the Wizard to fight (if Vendrall attacks palace/adept first) is to delete the wizard guild (make sure to also delete the inn next to it, and the gazebo if you found it). The wizard will take a straight line to the front of the palace to leave the map, but will still berserk if he gets to an enemy. If Vendral isn't directly in the way, you have time to build a new inn while Adept are tanking him to change the angle he goes after his guild is demolished. Temple healing the solari/adept who Vendrall who is attacking directly means that the wizard only needs to be healed when vendral does his AoE.
Having the Wizard present fixes the problems with Vendrall targeting Palace or Adept first. Vendrall will be tanked and also die quickly, so the minotaurs/drakes not in the fight won't have time to kill the palace/agrela.
The way to beat the level reliably is to have a plan for the 3 most important situations - Palace first, Agrela first, and Wizard first. (if adept/warrior/dwarf first, you lose a few days but still finish fast, just react to where he goes second)
The way to fix Palace first -
All three steps must be performed.
1: Have something to tank the Vendral's main attacks with temple healing.
1A: Have the Solari at level 5-7 through fairgrounds set to Melee (highest levels they'll have in day 7-8)
1B: force the adept to particpate by making him berserk at the castle (delete his guild all inns/gazebo)
2: force the wizard to particpate in the fight by making him berserk at the castle (delete his guild all inns/gazebo)
3: Make sure that the Temple of Agrela does not die during the fight
4: Only if wizard dies before sword site - turn off repair on all buildings except palace.
The way to fix Wizard first requires either -
A: Forcing the LVL 25 Adept or LVL 25 Dwarf to go to the wizard guild and berserk.
OR
B: Upgrading wizard guild to 2 and Building 6-8 Wizard Tower in a perfect ring around the tower before the sword site is destroyed. Each Tower will do 30~ damage to Vendrall or 90 to a normal dragon before it dies, but their real use is just as a HP shield for the guild. A perfect ring is neccesary because Vendrall can randomly disengage towers. Lvl 20 Wizard can be forced to berserk by lightning bolting the guild. He might need invisiblity a few times immediately after a tower dies (using it gets Vendrall stuck attacking a different tower). Towers can be replaced as they die . Vendral's HP should run out at about tower 4 or 5 if done correctly though (120~tower damage 380~ wiazrd damage). Doing this extremely early makes it hard to afford enchanting towers (must extort approiately) .If the sword site is killed a little slowly extra towers can be afforded (due to having the marketplace longer). Doing this day 10+ is supremely safe for this reason. With that much gold you can even use lvl 1 wizards instead of the lvl 20. This is the only strategy that doesn't require discovering the Temple to Agrela.
The way to fix Agrela first -
A: build an inn by temple to agrela to get Adept/Wizard to come after destroying their guild and berserk as above
OR
B: Build a line of wizard towers toward but do not actually circle Temple to agrela - the intent is simply to gurantee that Agrela > Palace does not happen. Agrela > Wizard is survivable. At most distances you will only need 3 extra towers on top of the 6 that are around the Wizard's guild. This also allows you to have a backup for Palace first (the C part) because you can quickly build 2-4 at Temple to Agrela (built after sword site destroyed, not after) (with gold saved since you don't need to enchant the 6 at wizard guild) - This is for when stray dragons/minotaurs attack agrela, NOT Vendrall himself.
If Agrela is closer to wizard than palace, you don't need the breadrumb line at all. It's just to change his decision for when Agrela is closer to Palace than Wizard (also when Agrela is closer to Adept than Wizard.)
For RTA - I think having all safety plans is fine (especially since the LVL 20 wizard could get himself killed by an evil occulous or the second Vendral raid with the harpies).
I play at normal 50 speed for getting the first Solari out of the base with 4 flags in a "T" to find adept/rogue and placing 8 flags in the farthest row to find dwarves/sword site. I switch to fastest as soon as flags are placed (usually a little after Solari comes out)
Recruiting rogues, setting up melee tournament, building wizard tower ring, and possibly adjusting flags doesn't require much attention on fastest.
I switch back to 50 speed for when the sword site is destroyed.
I had a day 6 Vendral>castle first. before I got my day 5 Vendral>Wizard first.
You can also lose 3-4 days due to Vargs though. Solari are.... not good explorers.
Trying to make game harder :)
Deliberately using units which makes it harder AKA trying no paladin etc.
I managed to get a 13 day clear with very bad map luck, so it should be simple to work into playing all the southern quests in a single run.
It has a fairly uncomplicated spawn pattern for the lairs... The only one that matters is the Liche Queen Lair itself, and since always in the farthest corner from start and also always surronded by normal graveyards, it's a big target.
It's easy to walk a barbarian across with 6-7 200 gold flags in a straight line.
It might even be possible to walk a healer across with a higher gold value (I usually see them turn back for home at about the 3rd flag).
I recruit healers for the initial 4 heroes needed to upgrade palace before demolishing their guilds, so it might be nice to put them to use in the brief time I have them.
I usually throw up a wizard guidld if a barbarian makes it to the 5th flag and farsight and towers from there- this allows me to fan out the search and is also safer - the backend of the map usually has vampires, which further exploration difficult.
2 barbarian guilds is all that seems neccesary to get through the surronding monsters, the tower, and the Queen herself.
It's possible to find the Liche Lair really early this way , but unfortunately I was having money trouble the first time I did it. - It's worth investing in guardhouses or 1 warrior guild, since Barbarians are always far away from their home guild, and ratmen run wild (especially since you don't have the 4 rogues or w/e you would normally have)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367106046
In the above game got the Queen down to 20 health mostly without Rage of Krolm, and then all barbarians died and the day counter went up to about 15 before I finished.
I switched to 1 market+ 2 trading posts after this, taking advantage of the gnomes to throw up the second barbarian guild by the 2nd trading post. This seems to have kept it safe from random skeleton/goblin groups attacking it before I reached the final stage. The power of a (almost completely undisturbed) double distance caravan guranteed that I could Rage of Krolm twice back to back.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367107371
I think it's possible to get down to 11-12 days with this combination of aggresive flagging and big economy. This is an improvement over the kind of 14-19 day time you would get with a normal barbarian playstyle in the level.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367106363
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1367106888
1 Marketplace + 2 trading posts might be optimal on the other medium-length maps. (due to 2nd market taking small amount of time to pay for its initial cost) 2 Marketplaces is easier to manage on fastest game speed though and doesn't lose too much time.
Temple to Lunord -> Wind Storm is the best method for shooing away phantoms and enemy heroes. Invisibility works to control attention-span too.
It took me almost 4 hours of attempts to tie the 5 day record. In the process, I came up with a safe and relialbe strategy for 6-8 day clears which can be used on fastest game speed.
1: build a gnome hovel and a Rogue's Guild - Ideally rogue guild will be placed toward the middle of the starting area.
First number = Vertical and Second Number=Horizontal
The Chalice Site can appear at 1-1. 2-2. 1-5. 4-2, 5-5, or 4-2 (2-4 and 1-5 if Palace is rotated)
The Paladin Guild can appear at 1-1, 1-3, 3-1,3-5, 5-1, 5-3, 5-5 (1-5 if Palace is rotated)
In summary - The Claice either appears at the diagnol corners of the map or the inside diagnol slot.
The Paladin Guild appears at the cardinal direction map edges or the diagnol corners of the map.
The diagnol corner behind Palace is always empty.
Notice that 3 of the locations overlap for Paladins and Chalice Site....
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1378766686
2: Find both the paladin Guild and the Chalice Site with Rogues -
Literally flagging all the locations is not ideal - the straight paths to the inside corners (2-2, 4-4) usually have Daemoonwood at them).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1378767867
Instead, I pre-place flags before rogues guild is built (1-1. 1-2. 1-3 3-1 . 3-5 , 4-5, 5-1 5-3 5-5. )
It isn't strictly neccesary to "breadcrumb" the rogues with the inbetween flags at the empty locations 1-2 and 4-5.
These are actually used to gurantee that 2 rogues travel in each direction. The inside corners are only flagged AFTER the rogues have started moving, which makes 1 branch off .
Having two rogues for both sides of the map also helps in case one flees in terror, although if you play cleanly most of the lairs won't have spawned monsters yet.
The back side of he map doesn't require extra flags, because there should only be 1 rogue coming from each direction at that point due one rogue going to 2-2 or 4-4 (and then home)
You need to find both locations - If Chalice is found first, either commit to the other side's rogue's doing a full loop, or reflag the side the Chalice was on to snake around the Chalice (travel to map side will still be neccesary to get to new areas)
3: Once you find the Chalice Site, unless it is at the farthest corner, build a warrior's guild on top of it. The gnome Radius is about 3/5 of the map, and since the palace spawns in an inside position isntead of the edge, this meeans that you can reach all of the other of the chalice locations. You should recruit the full 9 gnomes, since several will die to RRgongal or be scared by in-between monsters, but the guild will ALWAYS go up in the end.
3B: If the chalice site is at the farthest corner, build a warrior's guild at 4-2 - This is the limit of the gnome range, but still close enough to usually force the paladin's to behave (500 gold flag) They don't have the benefit of auto-defend home berserking however.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1378767071
4: go the the Paladin guild and manually delete it - the paladins will be assigned to the newly built guild by the chalice site. Because of the short distance they will respond to even a 100 gold attack flag on it. Using Call to arms on the new guild will bring the paladins there and reset their decision tree AI.
5: Cast Stoneskin on the paladin directly attacked (will need to recast a handful of times over course offight) if you can afford it, also cast stoneskin on the second closest paladin due to the splash damage of Rrongoal's (ocasional) special attacks.
6: If possible, also build a rogues guild on top of the chalice site (again with gnomes) ideally on the opposite side that Rrongal and the paladins are on so that they will damage it during the fight.
7: Rrongnoal should be down day 4 or early day 5. Whittling the Chalice Site's HP can take a full day or even 1+1/2 - 1+3/4 if there aren't enough heroes on it. Level ends when the Chalice is collected, not when the building is destroyed.
Special notes -
- Trading Posts -
The two starting trading posts can sometimes eliminate a location from where you need to explore.
The trading posts (or any building that gets damaged) should be taken off of the repair route because it will interfere with gnomes remotely building guilds.
- Sewers -
If the first sewers (while recruiting rogues) spawns at one of the trading posts, the ratmen it spits out can sometimes target the building foundations of a warrior's guild thrown on top of the chalice Site (no other monsters, including Rrongnal will ever attack buildings in this level)
- Paladin Death -
If you had the warrior's guild directly on top of the chalice, this usually won't matter, since 4 will be fighting him at the same time. Replacing them with Warriors is OK if you only need building damage (the remaining three are close to done). Otherwise waiting for extort / caravan for a new paladin is better.
If you had the worst spawn, you may only have 2 at a time fighting RRognal due to Paladin's being iffy about attack flags.
Marketplace -
can be upgraded to Lvl 2 (no researching protection amulets) due to the doubled trade caravans. Lvl 3 is not worth the 750+950 gold due to the very short length of the quest.
If you wanted to be extra safe, waiting for the Paladins to get healing potions also makes stoneskin fighting much easier. I never try for this because Paladin's usually keep hunting monsters anyway and rarely go to town, so they aren't any better off when I teleport them to Rrongol.
It also lets you practice the gnome max distance and rogue flag manipulation, since you can watch a hero - if you place things correctly they won't purchase healing potions.
If you leave it un-upgraded, you still retain the option to extort the caravans if (they get close to death). If it's sent to level two extorting caravans won't make up the money spent in time to build a remote guild since their money is only multiplied once they arrive.
- RRongal -
If he moves away from the Chalice Site and your paladin's actually start hitting the building, it's worthwhile to actually Call to Arms again - Otherwise they will fight him 1 at a time while the others continue damaging the building, which almost never works, even with stoneskin assitance (no other spells avaialbe since we don't have time to upgrade palace)
Conclusion -
6-8 days can be done with this strategy virtually every time, and you do not need to reset over "bad" chalice locations.
5 days is only possible in 2 Chalice Locations - 2-2 and 4-4. The Paladin's MUST spawn right behind it in 1-1 or 5-5. A Rogue's guild is the first remote guild to be built, since the Paladin's usually move diagnolly when their guild is first found and will fight RRongal naturally (stoneskin is still used on them).
Honestly it's not worth the hassle of going lower than 6. In real-time a 6-8 day clear is quite fast by itself, especially since fast speed can be turned on after placing the flags and because you have the safety to check the third corner.
For reference - I had 2 attempts where the Site was destroyed at the very end of day 5, but it rolled over to day 6 before someone physically picked up the chalice (artifact). Getting 5 days here was more frustrating than tieing the other 9 Cyberlore records that I managed.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1375437027