Suggested Units

[White Rabbit Alice]

im a UC Centered guy, i finished ZZ, Gundam SD Genesis is a favorite game, but i have a good idea of the units there. some of the units im only familar with some suits through other games like Dynasty Warriors Gundam and Gundam Breaker 3. so if any advice on what units or pilots to get would be welcome

[✨Nutkun7993✨]

Originally posted by TouyaShiro:

Originally posted by ✨Nutkun7993✨:

Also if I have to add to what you point. Patrick >>>Setsuna because

Setsuna against the ELS; Got brain damage and lost both cutting edge MS along with Tiera
Patrick against the ELS; Literally survive unscratched anyway

... He didn't lose the 00 QAN[T].

Also, Setsuna was doing what he could to communicate with the ELS; his brain could not handle everything they were telling him, and he only really lost the 00 Raiser GN Particle Condenser Type and Raphael Gundams because the priority was on getting Setsuna outta there - humanity might have been completely assimilated by the ELS without them knowing their true intentions if he wasn't able to communicate with them at the end. You gotta do what you gotta do to realise the dialogues to come...

Patrick, by comparison, is just incredibly lucky in his encounters, but in a sense that's also a good thing because it means he doesn't have to suffer the up and downs that a Gundam protagonist usually does...

I did not say he lose 00QAN[T] where did you pick that from? I was referring to how they saved him and lost two suits in quick succession to ELS.

And I was just joking around. I knew Setsuna was the great person doing what he could. I watched most of Gundam in my life. I probably know way more than you would think

[TouyaShiro]

Well, hey, Patrick Colasour does also have another thing to his name - he married his commanding officer! (And they're both alive by the time the conflict ends!)

Oh, and the Colasour Chronicles. (If any of you guys want context, just go watch Gundam Build Divers... as much as that prospect sounds revolting to most of you just hearing the name alone)

[Willem]

Ah yes, Patrick Colasour the Immortal, always getting his units trashed and surviving, while being actually funny (Unlike a certain Idiok), but: in this game: He's anything but a joke (At least: The Movie Version), because he can essentially double your MS/MA, (or even Warship in my case) Health due to his Blessed Colasour ability which revives his unit at full Health when it goes down... that's right: The guy's so Badass in this game he can Regenerate his unit from complete Destruction (As in: His Mobile Suit/Mobile Armour/Warship EXPLODING) to full health once per map, the ultimate "Flip the Bird" to your enemy. (Whom are probably VERY Angry and Confused)

[✨Nutkun7993✨]

Originally posted by Willem:

Ah yes, Patrick Colasour the Immortal, always getting his units trashed and surviving, while being actually funny (Unlike a certain Idiok), but: in this game: He's anything but a joke (At least: The Movie Version), because he can essentially double your MS/MA, (or even Warship in my case) Health due to his Blessed Colasour ability which revives his unit at full Health when it goes down... that's right: The guy's so Badass in this game he can Regenerate his unit from complete Destruction (As in: His Mobile Suit/Mobile Armour/Warship EXPLODING) to full health once per map, the ultimate "Flip the Bird" to your enemy. (Whom are probably VERY Angry and Confused)

Yeah it's really ironic Patrick supposed to be defeated so fast you won't even notice his screen time like in tv series but I like that.

And I honestly don't know this what is this "joke" suppose to mean though.

[Willem]

The idea of a "Joke Character", a character that (In game terms) is objectively a joke (Either very weak, or just Sub-Par across the board, this is often done intentionally)

Joke Character can also mean they're displayed as a Joke Character in their respective Universes (For example, Patrick gets constantly shot down no matter what suit he's piloting, any scenes with him tend to become funny, the whole series he's displayed as a big, nonsensical joke.. his "The Immortal" nickname is less of a frightening reputation, and more of a "This guy got shot down so many times yet survived" what a joke)

That's about the whole idea of him being a joke, it's hard to explain in exact terms for me.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Willem:

Ah yes, Patrick Colasour the Immortal, always getting his units trashed and surviving, while being actually funny (Unlike a certain Idiok), but: in this game: He's anything but a joke (At least: The Movie Version), because he can essentially double your MS/MA, (or even Warship in my case) Health due to his Blessed Colasour ability which revives his unit at full Health when it goes down... that's right: The guy's so Badass in this game he can Regenerate his unit from complete Destruction (As in: His Mobile Suit/Mobile Armour/Warship EXPLODING) to full health once per map, the ultimate "Flip the Bird" to your enemy. (Whom are probably VERY Angry and Confused)

You could also combine that with units that can purge their outer armor to have some ridiculous HP regen. Almost tripling your total HP. But then you also have some Qan(T) models that can heal.

Anyways I seem to have missed Flauros in this thread... I don't know how anyone could do such a thing. It's got a Dainsleif which means one of the longest range, highest damage ranged attacks in the game with up to 9 range and 5000 attack power. It's also very well rounded with ranged attacks for pretty much all ranges in between except point blank, where it is stuck with a weak knife.

Vidar Kimaris also has a Dainsleif with similar stats, but it costs 1 more EN for some reason, and the Vidar Kimaris is a Melee focused suit that just happens to have a Dainsleif on it. That's kind of a bad time earlier into the game because you probably want to focus on your damage, and you probably want to specialize pilots in either range or melee, not both, to save money and make sure everyone is at least competent at one role first. Then fill in the gaps later and make them good at everything.

There's also the Graze with a Deinsleif and it's just as good, though unfortunately it has no other moves and is very vulnerable in close range since it can't hit anything under a range of 3. (or is it 4?). Though it is technically the strongest grunt unit in the game because of that silly railgun.

The suits I probably used the most were:

Barbatos Lupus Rex for it's Tail Blade being an Awakening Move so it gives melee characters some amazing range if their awakening stat is high enough.

Wing Zero EW and Proto Wing Zero have the Twin Burster Rifle with 7 range and very high attack, the EW version is the best but the margin is small.

Flauros is great for ranged characters.

Strike Freedom is pretty powerful and gets more powerful with Awakening characters. The METEOR variant also gives you a very silly level of self-sustaining goodness where a Pilot can go off on their own and recover enough EN to keep fighting pretty much indefinitely, and using the Purge command to restore EN or HP as needed.

Gundam Griepe has one of the best Awakening moves in the game, but it's also a mixed bag unit with a good mix of Melee and Ranged attacks (but can do a bit of both at most ranges)

Altron and Shenlong variants are good if you want a Melee Character that can still have some range.

The later Red Astray Models have you covered for a lot of Melee needs.

The Free DLC units are all solid though not necessarily the best of any category. Gundam Destiny and it's Heine variant can do well with any pilot since they have a good mix of everything. Lord Astray I haven't used but looking at the stats it's a pretty solid melee unit that has at least some range. The Gold Astray Amaterasu is not the most powerful melee unit but it has one of the longest range melee attacks that isn't an Awakening move. Sisquiede has a great ranged attack but also packs a punch in melee with one of the strongest melee attacks.

Since I beat the game though I've been trying to get weaker units to be more useful and enjoy them. Like the Astaroth models which I find all very lacking all over, though the Astaroth Origin is a decent melee unit it's very limited. There's a lot of Sniper units that have great range but have pitiful attack rating on their moves. Awakening units might not seem great at first but become stronger than most units with the right stats.

[Willem]

People ignore Flauros because unlike Kimaris Vidar, it is a "One trick pony", as you have stated: the Flauros is absolute crap in melee, Kimaris Vidar is not, but it is also not entirely melee oriented: A 4-9 Range, 5000 power attack is Always useful, and oh yeah: Flauros does not have the Alaya Vijnana type-E, which gives a +20% damage boost to Kimaris Vidar on all of its attacks (Which is one of the most powerful abilities for a Conventional MS), along with other bonuses.
And also: Its (Canon) Pilot, Gaelio Bauduin (2nd) is Great at both Melee and Ranged, and once he hits Super morale, he gets an additional 50 to both, on top of an automatic 50 extra reaction just for having the ability.

Also: Flauros and Kimaris Vidar both have 36 EN as their Dainsleif energy cost)

Granted: Kimaris Vidar is as good as Twice as Expensive as the Flauros.

And finally: here's another little comparison.

Flauros:

Cost: 53700.

Stats:

HP: 15000.
EN: 150.
ATK: 295.
DEF: 255
MOB: 285.
MOV: 6

Terrain:

Space: B.
Atmospheric: N/A.
Ground: B.
Surface: N/A.
Underwater: C.

Weapons: (MP Cost not listed unless it has one, effects not listed unless it has one)

Assault Knife 1-1 Range, 2700 power, 12 EN.
Machine Gun (Flauros): 2-4 Range, 3000 Power, 16 EN, Link-Up. (Increases damage based on the amount of hits if an attack is a critical hit)
Long Barrel Cannon: 3-6 Range, power 3800, EN 20.
Dainsleif: 4-9 Range, 5000 Power, 36 EN, Piercing (Enemy Defense -30% for damage calculation)
Dainsleif (MAP): affects 12 tiles directly in front of it, 10000 Power, EN 50 (MAP Weapon, so no boosts from anything, 10000 damage is what you're getting (Was there a ability that boosted this? not sure), and no chance steps upon a kill, cannot be used post movement unless you have a skill or ability (Not sure about the latter)

Abilities:

*Nanolaminate Armor not listed as all Gundam Frames have it

Alaya Vijnana System. (+30 reaction if the pilot has at least Alaya Vijnana level 1)


Kimaris Vidar:

Cost: 103700.

Stats:

HP: 16400.
EN: 160.
ATK: 325.
DEF: 300.
MOB: 330.
MOV: 7.

Terrain Rating:

Space: A.
Atmospheric: N/A.
Ground: A.
Surface: N/A
Underwater: C.

Weapons:

Alaya-Vijnana Type E: Range: 1-1, Power 5400, EN 35, MP 10, Potential (Damage dealt increases as Hp Decreases) (Requires Super High Tension)
Drill Lance: Range: 1-2, Power 4300, EN 26, Piercing (Same as Flauros)
200mm Cannon: Range: 2-4, Power 3400, EN 17, Link-Up attack (Same as Flauros)
Dainsleif (Special KEP Round): Range 4-9, Power 5000, EN 36, Piercing (Same as Flauros)

Abilities:

Shield Defend: When you use the Defend command, damage is further Reduced.
Alaya-Vijnana Type E: +50 Reaction if pilot has Alaya Vijnana Type E as an ability, Ranged/Melee +50 if morale is Super or Above, Damage dealt +20% to enemies in battle.

So, with the Exception of a Map Attack that requires difficult setup, Kimaris Vidar is just flat out better in every aspect except Price.

I'll stick with Kimaris Vidar for my team, thank you, I like the damn thing way too much, but this was an objective display of their stats and my opinions on both of them, feel free to comment.

Also: The Dainsleif Equipped Graze has a 3 range blindspot, all Dainsleifs are the same stat wise.

PS: Dainsleifs are not Railguns, they're Mass Drivers, they clearly have a Linear motor instead of Magnetic Rails, and no: Those two are NOT the same thing, they may call them Railguns, but they're not based on how these things seem to work.

[きょすけ]

Unpopular opinion, but Burnlapius is imho one of the strongest melee rannged units ever, due to it's PX overdrive attack, which with the proper skill and modifications setup can reach up to 9800 base weapon damage(!) up to 10 squares, second only to griepe (10000), but only requiring super high tension instead of overcharged.

[Selphea]

In early-midgame Dainsleif is very EN inefficient. Flauros is my turret right now - put it on a Flighter to give it 7 Mov with double As. At the start of a turn, park it right in the middle of like 8 enemies, slap something with a Dainsleif to oneshot it for a Chance Step then use it's support to help the rest of the team push forward.

So I find myself using Flauros' Long Barrel Cannon on support a lot more than Dainsleif. I don't care that it's terrible in melee - it's usually the first to move out but the last to finish a turn so it'll end up behind my point units anyway, but that Long Barrel Cannon is so efficient.

The stats will fix themselves, lower statted units gain more stats with levels.

All this might change lategame, idk, but so far so good.

____

For other units, the Phoenix Zero you get at the start can evolve into 0 Gundam, then 1.5 Gundam, then Reborns Gundam. Pretty sure that's the shortest route from a free grunt unit to a season 2 final battle unit. The 0 Gundam phase sucks but by the time you've evolved Phoenix Zero you should have enough dispatch cooldowns to skip it and go straight to 1.5.

I hate levelling the SEED units, they take so long to go out of their Phase Shift Armor phase to Variable Phase Shift. I'd probably advise unlocking those as your second series, so that you pick up ways to get around the Phase Shift Armor part like farming enough CAP to brute force straight to their final evolutions, using cooldown items, using ginormous Warship Link Attacks to level them or something else. But once you do unlock them they're great for IBO because it's all physical attacks there.

Really liking Graham Special on the Arios family fight now. Since he has 0 Awaken and no Super Soldier, I put him in Arios Ascalon and he's unhittable, not to mention he loves Gundams :'D

You unlock the Trinitys fairly early on into 00. They're dirt cheap pilots but the Team Trinity + Gundam Meister combo is insane. Put Johann in a sniper or artillery Gundam. He will go into critical and unlock Trans-Am on his first kill, and things just snowball from there because his siblings can use his support to steamroll everything else. I'm liking Nena in the jet type units for the high MOV. Her reaction is good so she can take point while Johann snipes from behind. Her lines go well with the claw/impale attacks too.

Gold Frame Amatsu Mina is an interesting one. Melee attacks with 4 range and doesn't need Awaken, and they're all non-beams so that's great for IBO :O There's a few characters with the Mercenary passive and 0 Awaken, they'll work well in that.

I'm at the point where Awaken is starting to kick in so I've been picking up the Awaken units like Legilis, Legend, Reborns, Zabanya, QAN[T], Age-FX, but because of passives I'm still using quite a few 0 Awaken pilots.

There's a lot of things to try and viable units. It's really down to team comp and strategy and fanservice depending on how much you like the pilot's lines.

[TouyaShiro]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

The Free DLC units are all solid though not necessarily the best of any category. Gundam Destiny and it's Heine variant can do well with any pilot since they have a good mix of everything. Lord Astray I haven't used but looking at the stats it's a pretty solid melee unit that has at least some range. The Gold Astray Amaterasu is not the most powerful melee unit but it has one of the longest range melee attacks that isn't an Awakening move. Sisquiede has a great ranged attack but also packs a punch in melee with one of the strongest melee attacks.

Since I beat the game though I've been trying to get weaker units to be more useful and enjoy them. Like the Astaroth models which I find all very lacking all over, though the Astaroth Origin is a decent melee unit it's very limited. There's a lot of Sniper units that have great range but have pitiful attack rating on their moves. Awakening units might not seem great at first but become stronger than most units with the right stats.

Honestly, the Sisquiede by endgame is just as good as any of its contemporaries for me. The only real weakness I feel it has is its blind spot at... Range 2-3, I think, which I covered by giving its designated pilot (Sig Wednner) Melee Knowledge and Beam Knowledge, allowing the Beam Saber to cover the gap before Offense Mode 2 becomes available.

Originally posted by Selphea:

I hate levelling the SEED units, they take so long to go out of their Phase Shift Armor phase to Variable Phase Shift. I'd probably advise unlocking those as your second series, so that you pick up ways to get around the Phase Shift Armor part like farming enough CAP to brute force straight to their final evolutions, using cooldown items, using ginormous Warship Link Attacks to level them or something else. But once you do unlock them they're great for IBO because it's all physical attacks there.

I find that a bit of a mixed bag, honestly. They're great defensively, but offensively a majority of the stronger Cosmic Era units all have emphasis on Beam Weapons and almost nothing else, meaning they're ironically countered a lot harder by the Nanolaminate Armor more than you can defend with Phase Shift, Trans Phase or Variable Phase Shift Armor. It's why I put Anno Domini on my list of best overall units; more endgame units in that series have a better overall loadout, though this could be my experience with Setsuna's MS speaking here as he can cover a variety of ranges with physical and special weapons of some sort (as well as my preference for offense more than defense, though the 00 QAN[T] has a healthy share of both which can break most of the game).

Originally posted by Selphea:

Gold Frame Amatsu Mina is an interesting one. Melee attacks with 4 range and doesn't need Awaken, and they're all non-beams so that's great for IBO :O There's a few characters with the Mercenary passive and 0 Awaken, they'll work well in that.

Kazahana Azure. She even has a special quote! (Granted, it's intended for the Gold Frame Amaterasu, but the voice clip plays in all Gold Frame variants IIRC.)

[Selphea]

Originally posted by TouyaShiro:

I find that a bit of a mixed bag, honestly. They're great defensively, but offensively a majority of the stronger Cosmic Era units all have emphasis on Beam Weapons and almost nothing else, meaning they're ironically countered a lot harder by the Nanolaminate Armor more than you can defend with Phase Shift, Trans Phase or Variable Phase Shift Armor. It's why I put Anno Domini on my list of best overall units; more endgame units in that series have a better overall loadout, though this could be my experience with Setsuna's MS speaking here as he can cover a variety of ranges with physical and special weapons of some sort (as well as my preference for offense more than defense, though the 00 QAN[T] has a healthy share of both which can break most of the game).

Yes the beam spam really is annoying. Thankfully the dragoon attacks are all Special, and Destiny Impulse R is all Physical / Special. I'm using Strike Freedom, Legend and Destiny Impulse R for IBO. Everyone else just bums off their Support Defend.

Definitely agree on AD units, the GN Drive is helpful for Warships and Raiser / QAN[T] have that full heal which is great for Raid groups too. The in-universe lore is that these suits need to handle every kind of situation and terrain so that helps. Even the Ptolemy is good and Graham, Ali, Soma and Patrick in their Flag/Enact/Tierens can school Gjallarhorn on how to fight without beams.

Originally posted by TouyaShiro:

Kazahana Azure. She even has a special quote! (Granted, it's intended for the Gold Frame Amaterasu, but the voice clip plays in all Gold Frame variants IIRC.)

I'm on the last IBO mission so Yuhana's using it for now, SEED is next!

[Lapetirubern]

One more word of advice for OP. While tech level (apparently) made a huge amount of difference in Genesis, this isn't the case for Cross Rays - base stats are just that, base stats. The way the game is balanced is that units with lower base stats gain more points to distribute upon levelling up, so in the endgame, you can make almost any suit work. As such, and especially since this is not your first G Gen so you know how it all works, look at weapon spread and abilities and the like.

And yes, I said "almost" any suit. There are some that are only any good in water, which is rare enough to make them useless. I myself point at the Trilobite as the worst unit in the game because it's a water-locked MA, meaning there is literally no way to bring it onto most maps - not even the parts which grant air/space terrain ranks to units with space/air ranks

[TouyaShiro]

Originally posted by Brass Saturday:

One more word of advice for OP. While tech level (apparently) made a huge amount of difference in Genesis, this isn't the case for Cross Rays - base stats are just that, base stats. The way the game is balanced is that units with lower base stats gain more points to distribute upon levelling up, so in the endgame, you can make almost any suit work. As such, and especially since this is not your first G Gen so you know how it all works, look at weapon spread and abilities and the like.

And yes, I said "almost" any suit. There are some that are only any good in water, which is rare enough to make them useless. I myself point at the Trilobite as the worst unit in the game because it's a water-locked MA, meaning there is literally no way to bring it onto most maps - not even the parts which grant air/space terrain ranks to units with space/air ranks

The Expansion Pass seems to be fixing that by giving us what appears to be an underwater-only stage (the Cosmic Era one). And I'm both scared and excited for this because it means that I'll have a reason to use the Astray Blue Frame Scale System... but the majority of my mainstay MS will be nerfed to absolute heck because of diffused beam weaponry.

As for the base stat part, they're correct, pretty much. With the way I personally distribute my points, most of my MS have very similar stats by the time they are Level 99, with ATK, DEF and MOB stats somewhere in the realm of close to 700 (some cases surpass that) or at the very least surpassing 600 for all three.

[✨Nutkun7993✨]

There're over 400 units in game so there're over 400 difference among of total upgrade points out there. The easiest way to tell which unit gains more point when they level up is a EXP they need to Level 2 or a Cost or you have to pay to produce that unit. Some expensive MS may start with lower stats than other but they sill consider high tier for its abilities and weapon move set so they still gain less point than those with similar/same stats but with either standard abilities or mediocre move set.

There's only ones single unit that defy the rule It's Knight Superior Dragon, he gains highest number of Upgrade Points in game, so high that his ATK/DEF/MOB can be like 999/630/700 and still have enough point to ram his EN to 400+ and 38000 HP

Btw this is not a suit though

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1991385027

[Lapo]

Not much love for grunt suits here, lets fix that. There are several great suits that are part of the mass produced/doesn't look like a samurai rabble.

Wing: Virgo II. It's all beams with it but besides the reduction to non special ranged damage it has a ranged beam attack that does 4500 base damage and has piercing. Savage.

Seed Destiny has the Windam Jet Striker. It flies, has VPS armor, a good mix of ranged weapons and MAP nukes. Actual Gundams wish they were this cool.

00: Several suits here, none of them are great but they have their charm. The Flag Custom (Graham) isn't that great stats wise but it has awesome custom animations. Same could be said for the Superbia GN-X. The GN-X IV is a jack of all trades, with a great variety of weapons, EN regeneration, flight and a GN field.
I am not sure if the Brave Commander Test Type would qualify as a grunt suit but if it does then it has insane EN regeneration and decent defense thanks to its GN Drive Tau (array).

IBO: The Graze (Dainsleif Team) is the strongest grunt suit in the game, with a ranged weapon that does 5000 damage and a MAP weapon that does 10000 damage in a long line. Pair it with a SFS and you can shoot it after moving too. It sucks at being versatile but that's why you have the other suits. Needs a EN part to be really useful.
The Hyakuri is also nice if you have access to the part that allows you to increase the flight rating from it's innate low score of C. Flight, great speed, a shield and nanolaminate armor and some boring, bog standard weaponry end up making a MS that is not perfect, but it will completely overwhelm enemies using beams without sacrificing mobility. It should have a MA mode but the game just transforms it automatically depending on the attack you use (MS for the melee, MA for the ranged attack).