Another rant about how magic sucks in Skyrim

[Soren]

Needless to say there are many an adventurer who has tried to walk the path of the mage through Skyrim only to be summarily chopped in twain by... anything. Magic in Skyrim is by far the least effective form of combat in Skyrim and cannot truly compare in sheer effectivenes and sustainability as a heavyily armored warrior or a nimble assassin type character.

Initially you may be impressed by the variety and strength of the spells in Skyrim. However this is quickly hampered by the high Magica cost of every spell. Oftentimes, in the lower levels, you may find spell altogether too costly to cast and they will remain in your spell library collecting dust.

Another fault of the Magic system in this game is the fact that the damage of Magic spells are fixed. Certainly you may use perks to imroove the damage output of the Destruction spells but only up to a certain point and ultimately it is quite insufficient.

The most powerful Destruction Spells are the master level spells such as Lightning Storm, Blizard, etc. Their damage output is childsplay in comparison to an assassin's arrow or even to a well augmented axe/sword sharpened by a proficient smithy.

To acquire these master level spells you must perform a minor ritual (quest). This is acceptable at least and is the only positive I truly have regarding magic.

Conjured creatures are weak, clumsy and altogether insufferably obstructive. The only decent summoned entity would certainly be the Dremora Lord which is more nimble that the atronachs and do more damage BECAUSE THEY DON'T USE MAGIC... rather they use two-handed greatswords!

Illusion is kind of interesting and funny at times but ultimately a waste of time when you could achieve similar effects in 1/10th of the time by simply running everyone through with a blade isntead of Frenzying them all to death.

Alteration is a mage's equivalent to a defense and is far too costly to maintain in any reastic combat situation. If you are letting the enemy hit you physically, you've already failed as a mage and should hang up your robes.

Restoration magic... well it just sucks. 'nuff said.

Ultimately, this rant will probably piss off some adventurer who prefers the path of Magical enlightenement but let me offer a challenge. You're master mage versus my master assassin. Who would win? I guarantee you, at least 4/5 times the assassin will win and that's being generous assuming the mage has the drop on the assassin (which is stupid since the assassin can sneak and doesn't need to use Magika to maintain invisibility). A true mage will be able to sustain Dragonscale armor to survive a potential deathblow (theoretically assuming the arrow is not a paralyzing shot or is poisoned). The mage's primary source of damage would be Destruction or a conjured being both of which must assume that the assassin is visible and you are able to give chase. The mage may attempt to use Wards which also assumes the target direction is known. The Magika consideration dictates the mage will be able to sustain a decent ward for only a few moments.

The assassin can and will attempt to snipe with a deadly poisoned arrow (which if it hits will certainly instantly kill a true mage who often have very little health in the first place). The assassin may also backstab but this is not advisable in a situation where the mage knows the assassin is coming since the mage can drop the equivalent of "magical landmines".

IF the mage and the assassin begin the fight face to face, and if the mage is able to aim sufficiently well, the mage may get the upper hand with a paralysis spell or a calm spell. These are ultimately the best chance the mage has (assuming the mage can drop the spell before the assassin can lose an arrow or crossbow bolt).

The same situation applies to the warrior though the warrior is at a disadvantage compare to the assassin in that he does not possess any talent with stealth. The shield (block) perk to defend against magic attacks will be invaluable to allow the warrior to close distance. If the distance is closed and the warrior is in melee range, the mage has no chance of survival. The warrior should be able to kill the mage in short order.

Blah this rant is too long and I doubt anyone will read it now lol.

[(1)caZ]

I read it, and fully agree.

[Hans]

Word. I think in 1v1 situations a mage would have a lot of utility, but I totally wreck EVERYTHING as a barbarian orc especially after activating racial ability which makes any wizard (without mods) look like a total noob in comparison.

Maybe what we should be asking is what mods people use to make magic not utterly suck beyond spamming resto spells as a warrior.

[stabbykitteh]

I read it, too. Is there a cookie or something?

Magic was ridiculously overpowered in Oblivion so they went a bit too far and crippled it a bit, especially Destruction, in Skyrim... Maybe TESVI will find the balance? 'Til then there are always mods...

[βob__ζ]

You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.

[stabbykitteh]

Originally posted by βobitoζ:

You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.

Be. More. Specific.

[βob__ζ]

Seriously. What can I say that would convince you that mage is the powerful one.

How about this. Muffle > Invisible > Paralyze.
The fact that a magical item can kill the end boss in one hit.
Or the fact that Destruction magic damage can be increased with potions.
You can enchant items to the point that magic cost 0 mana.
In almost every way a mage is better than a non-mage.

Enchanting is Magic. How well would the thief/assassin/warrior do without enchanting.
By the way, Shouts fall under Magic.

[legwon]

in the beggining mages suck ass.. yes
i will agree with u there...
but once u do the perks and skills correctly,
NOONE can stand up to a mage in skyrim.

[stabbykitteh]

Found that at higher difficulty levels you really need that zero magic buff from enchantments (which seems a bit cheaty) and those buffs from potions because you have to blast high level critters many, many, many times to kill them. It doesn't seem properly balanced for higher difficulty. My opinion, quite possibly I are doing it wrong.

[Gropax]

magic is way overpowered in skyrim Illusion is so OP if you know how to use it you can't ever die. and since mages can wear armor and cast with 0 penalities it gets even more OP when you throw in light or heavy armor. and unless you do the restoration potion glitch weapons never get that powerful.

[A-Mac]

Originally posted by Jik Master Chief:

You guys know there is not gonna be a new elders scroll they are making the MMO now.

Except Bethesda isn't making the mmo. They're working on the next elder scrolls. The MMO is being made by Zenimax

[Valadeus]

I've personally found Mages to be quite the opposite of underpowered in Skyrim. It takes a bit more investment and game knowledge to make a Mage powerful, but a well played and equipped Mage is infinitely more powerful than an assassin or warrior.

[Soren]

A lot of you put up great arguments for magic however I have to give my counter argument.

Let us imagine once again a situation of 1v1 combat between a mage who will focus on stealth (i.e. Illusion magic = muffle, invisibility) and on the ultimate side of alteration (i.e. paralysis). This would automatically assume the assassin is visible and the mage can target the assassin. The mage's tactic would certainly be advatnageous against a single warrior type and the fallen warrior could do nothing but curse and spit while the mage made short work of him. Unffortunately for the mage, this method is far from effective when dealing with an assassin type character as I have mentioned before. The mage would need to continuously maintain the invisibility (which is somewhat taxing assuming the 100% magika cost reduction enchantments have not been applied to Illusion magic). Then the mage would have but 1 or two shots to tag the assassin with paralysis otherwise the assassin would most certainly kill the mage with a single arrow (since the mage will be unable to throw a defensive spell while maintaining invisibility.

We would be faced with a situation where the first mistake would be the ultimate one.

Now let us leave the realm of the 1 v 1 arena type combat to the open field. A douzen mages versus an equal amount of assassins. What would be the turnout? I think it would vastly depend on who was attacking who to begin with.

In a situation where the mages were attacking the assassins, we would find the assassisn most likely riddled to death with a barrage of blind Area of Effect attacks while a few more precise attacks focused on paralysis. The mages would put out many summoned minions and be able to lay covering fire to reduce the chance of the assassins retaliating effectively. Unfortunately if this was a true battle, the battle would begin with all the assassins spreading out and hiding and not rushing out to meet their attackers. This is undoubtedly the best tactic in that a single assassin would be able to (given enough time and skill) wipe out the mages with sniper-like arrows. "No the mages have detect life" you say. Well that may be true but detect life does not have unlimited range. An arrow from 10 feet away is as effective as an arrow from 100 feet away. These are the facts of war and I am most certain that while a mage is trying to lay waste to an enemy it can barely see, it will not be also sumultaneously maintaing a shield type spell or invisibility on itself. A mage is too fcused on a single thing AND DOES NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT MAGIKA, to maintain its attention in multiple directions. Ultimately a group of assassins, if they are smart, will not be so easily boxed in and destroyed but should slip through the mages' fingers like sand.

If the assassins attacked first. Well... 1 assassin per mage. 1 arrow per mage. the battle would be over before it begins. HOWEVER let us assume for the sake of the argument that the mages are entrenched in fortifications and hidden away so taht a single arrow will not be able to reach them. An assassins greatest asset is stealth and if coordinated properly, the mages would not be able to release effective attacks in a quick enough time to prevent a near instantaneous death. We must also point out that technically if the mages have access to enchanting, then the assassins by rights have access to alchemy. This would give them poisons which negate most mage spells and would either paralyse, OR kill any mage it comes in contact with (NOT EVEN SIMPLY BY ARROW OR BLADE). A reverse-pickpocketed poison is an equally deadly delivery method and will maintain stealth so the mage will be leaft gasping while the assassin is already rounding the corner to his next unwitting victim.

I do concede that the warriors would most likely have it a little rough. This situation is a little more delicate and will depend greatly on the sheer brute strength and resolve of the warriors since the only hope a warrior has of defeating a mage is to close distance or unleach a barrage of arrows. Now a warrior's advantage rests also in their endurance. Let me elaborate. They have a LOT more health than a mage. It would take a mage nearly all of its magika to lay waste to a warrior (assuming no potions are used). If the warriors play it smart and take two warriors for every mage, the mages would be swarmed in no time as the mages would take some time to kill the warriors. This time is crucial and the warriors will operate with that in mind. In close-quarters combat, the mages literally have no chance unless they are hurling paralysis literally every 10 seconds to keep every warrior down. I MUST POINT OUT THAT PARALYSIS IS VERY COSTLY and so is invisibility. These spells will tax the mages even more and they will be found wanting in the end when they need the magika to conjure their minions and use destruction magic to finish off the warriors.

I do admit a mage's arsenal is quite varried and some spells are somewhat useful in situations where they may be called for. Unfotrunately that is not enough to make it an effective focus and concentration. A pure mage is left too weak and defenseless in the face a true enemy and can never fight for an extended amount of time since their magika regenerates slowly during combat.

An assassin requires no such down time and will be able to unleash a nearly unending volley of deadly arrows (with stealth bonus to damage (X3) might I add).

[βob__ζ]

Detect Life and or Detect Dead trumps any attempt at stealth.
Destruction Runes would serve as an early warning system.

Fury, Calm, or Fear (or their higher level equivalent) would take care of any large force. The mage would sit back and watch the assassins or warriors kill each other.

[Soren]

Proximity is not necessary with an assassin if you need reminding. I can Hit you with an arrow well outside your range of detection.

[βob__ζ]

My whole point is mage is not underpowered. I think that I've shown that it is not.

Mage vs. Assassin: Winner is dependent on who is attacking who first. Which means they are equal.