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She is rumoured to have connections with the Thieves Guild and smuggling rings if you listen to the gossip around town. Perhaps the the honest elves are the ones who do poorly in Windhelm while the nefarious lot manipulate their way out of the cesspool.
Well, the cat's out of the bag. Yes, I saw the wonderful link after I posted my comment and it clearly states that Ulfric became an asset of the Thalmor agent who broke him during his captivity in their prison. It goes on to say that he should be considered a dormant asset now, not hostile and still an asset. It even says he can be contacted, just not directly. So the lines of communication are strained but not broken.
The hypocrisy is mind-boggling! He's a traitor to his own people! This isn't just some guy who gave away valuable information during interrogation...he joined them, was assigned a handler and is still an asset (read as spy).
Oooh, that Ulfric poser is gonna get a whuppin'!
Tullius is just a pompous twit. Not very likable, but you can just roll your eyes whenever he speaks and then get on with the job. (as for the issue with the execution, he probably wasn't actually paying attention to anything other than Ulfric...)
Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.
The last sentence is a key thing there. Ulfric pursues a stormcloak victory that much is obvious. The thalmor captured and tortured him for information then manipulated him into thinking he caused the fall of the empire(or imperial city if you want to be specific) Afterwords they released him making him think he broke out, implying that he is not a knowing ally.
They claim he is still an asset, as a jarl and someone who believes that the Empire no longer holds a future that is obvious. His ability to rally others and rank is also of consequence.
What this implies to me since they had to fake his prison break and other actions is that he was being manipulated by them, and they seek to continue to do so, BUT a total stormcloak victory is as much a loss to the Thalmor as an Imperial victory.
Ulfric appears to me to be less of an opportunist as much as a man filled with some guilt, believing that he caused the fall of the empire he served. So in his mind I think he believes he is doing the best thing by trying to create a new empire(even if it is just Skyrim for the Nords)
That is just reading into it heavily though, again we barely talk to Ulfric throughout the game and so it is hard to make much out of his personality.
EDIT: I really don't wanna come off too much as defending Ulfric :(. I just don't like assumptions to be made in a decision process
So, if you don't like the Thalmor...kill Ulfric. That's good enough for me.
Edit - Also, I think we are using the word "asset" in different ways. I'm talking about terms used in intelligence organizations...asset = spy. You seem to be using as a synonym for "benefit" or "resource".
THen again the Imperials aren't my second choice....they're just the lesser of two evils. I'd rather crown myself high king.
In nature, with 99% of life on the planet, for example: One group of primates go and attack another group, to claim their territory and expand their own, much like how we Humans have done down the ages (the reason how we've gotten borders to this day) This is completely normal Territorial behaviour..
So, are the Stormcloaks really being racist? Or are they behaving in just the same as every other creature on the planet, (Nirn), by just being Territorial?.....
Still we follow the path of 'he who has the biggest stick, makes the rules'
Ok, Dan, you're tired of "single-minded crap" and I'm tired of apologists making excuses for racism. It's a game and it was designed to play upon our emotions in simple ways to make the experience more engaging and enjoyable. Obviously, people will tend to choose one side or another for the most part and it sounds like few of us are happy about that. Most folks seem to feel like they are choosing between being shot or being stabbed...neither option is particularly appealing.
Then you get the fanboys. The less said about that the better.
This thread asks us to explain why we "hate" Ulfric so much. If the arguments sound "single-minded" to you, it might have something to do with the title of the thread. It also might have something to do with the game itself. We are reacting to what has been put before us.
The Stormcloaks are completely racist. I'd like to think that this is as obvious to you as it to others. Fiction is fiction and a game is just a game, but identifying racism or making apologist arguments to gloss it over, is actually kind of spooky. In Ulfric's own hold, dark elves live in fear and are openly accosted and threatened in the streets...and that is during the daylight hours. The Khajit are left out in the dangerous cold to die.
There is no "grey area" here. Of course it's racism. Now whether there is a biological basis to racism is an interesting question for another discussion but it's still racism.
If you seek balance, start a thread "Why do people hate Gen. Tulius"?
He just yearns to rule the Skyrim lands. Killing their old high king by the semi traditional ways to remove the, in his eyes, weak king so a stronger one can take his place.
Using the voice is not a traditional weapon, but challanging the high king into battle and being free to leave afterwards. Though the one opening the gates to follow through with traditions was executed for that.
Without the jarls behind him, he would still never become high king. Though fierce fighters, the stormcloaks are only a small group.
Now I can't blame them for being rasicts. It is human to lock out people with other believes and looks. Look at pretty much every war in our world. This fear or hatered is at the core at pretty much all of them.
At this point Ulfric and the stormcloaks are just being men. As in human race.
True it bugs me to see the dunmer pushed into the gray quarter and the argonians hidden away in the docks, but as a primairy dunmer player, I can't berate them about it. After all, the dunmers have been prime slave traders.
What does bug me is two things.
I HATE it when someone uses religion to gather an army and fight.
Ulfric may believe in Talos, but Talos is only a way of banding his soldiers to him. Turning atention away from himself and to this cause. Many fall for this ploy and those are our lovely racist stormcloak soldiers.
The second reason is a bit more personal. I am not going to attack my buddy in Whiterun.
Now if it was a battle for Riften with having to kill Maven. I would be first in line.
Yes Ulfric dislikes other races, but as a miletary leader he knows its better to let an elf die for his cause than one of his more precious Nord.
Because he rather have the land to his people alone, he will also not lift a finger to help other races.
But as a Nord, he is bound to have a dislike to the Mer races. Just look at the history between men and mer in Skyrim.
There are many reasons and cultural upbringings for him to be who is is.
Yes he was broken by the Thalmor for their plan to delve the Tamriel into a war which will leave it broken and drained so they can take it over with ease. They started this with the white-gold concornate.
The Empire does not care about believing in Talos. Talos was once an emporer of the empire so they love the guy. But to keep peace they promised to ban its believe.
Do they follow with that law? Nope.
Unless there is a Thalmor watching their fingers.
I prefer the empire because they are more welcoming. Aslong as you want to fight for the empire, they don't care what race you are. The empire is build as the romans.
You take over a race and blend your culture with theirs.
They did ot like my ancestors being slave drivers, but they accepted it. Flowing into the land with their own culture and gently, slowly changing the balance of morals. In the end there where only a few families in Morrowind left who still held slaves. Till the argonians struck back.
But back to topic.
Both leaders are good for their own men. For their cause.
Tullius and the empire are more in synce with the politics. As imperials they have silver tounges. Ulfric is more set on keeping things the same. But stasis is deadly in a changing world.
Now do know that this piece is written with more than 300 hours as a dunmer and 25 hours as a altmer behind it. Both are imperials.
My Khajiit has no opinion and both groupd just let her race freeze in the cold.
My newer nord however is a fan of Ulfric because of his believes in his country and following the old traditions.
Appologies about spelling errors.