Hagravens and Briarhearts

[Shadowblade001]

If Spriggans are plant elementals, are Forsworn Briarhearts undead and Hagravens daedra? Or are Hagravens undead? Are they unnatural abominations?

Does the game treat them as creatures or animals?

Cheers!
~

[Big Boom Boom]

Spriggans are not elemental, there are no elemental in TES. Atronach are equivalent to Elementals, but they are Daedric origin, Spriggans are native to Nirn. Briarhearts are not undead, they are probably closer to say Dwarven Automaton but with flesh (If you notice those Automaton are probably powered by Soul Stone). Hagravens are also native to Nirn, you can't banish them the same way you do to Daedra.

They are creatures and not animals.

[SupernastyPants]

In one of the quests you learn that Hagravens are just witches that sacrifice their humanity in rituals in order to obtain magical powers. You also learn from Neloth in Dragonborn that Briarhearts are strong warriors attuned with nature that undergo a ritual to replace their life "essence" with that of nature's.

Spriggans in lore are simply spirits of nature, you can read about it in one of the books. It may have been only in Morrowind's Bloodmon though, can't recall.

[Shadowblade001]

Yes, Spriggans are not from Oblivion (so not Daedra), but they are Nature Spirits and part of the natural world, but not animals, so in my mind that's similar to a Plant Elemental. Atronachs ARE from Oblivion, so are Daedra, but are also similar to Fire, Frost and Lightning elementals.

Skyrim is much more basic and elemental in it's magick than older TES games (I've played them all). But one of the wikis said that Briarhearts are similar to Undead in that their heart has been replaced with a briar heart. Can they be Turned, though? That's the test. If they have an elemental nature spirit animating them, I guess not. But they are not part of the Good side of the Force, more the Dark Side. Or am I wrong there?

Also, Hagravens are a hybrid of bird and crone, so used to be human but are now abominations of some sort. Also Evil, so not of the Clean Nirn. Sometimes they drop daedra hearts, but I suppose that is an inventory item for alchemy, not their own heart?

What about Frost Wraiths? Are they undead or elemental in nature?

And Wisp Mothers? Air spirits or undead?

I'm researching stuff for a mod, but I want to be lore-correct.


Cheers!

[SupernastyPants]

Spriggans are part of the natural world. Their spirits are tied directly to nature. That is why they live in trees and are capable of resurrecting themselves after death (atleast they did in Morrowind). I wouldn't relate them to any element really, just nature itself. Atronochs are demons, they come from planes of Oblivion. That is a huge distinction there. They only appear in Nirn when summoned or through other special conditions relating to Obvlivion gates or summoning seasons. Elements like Fire/Frost/Shock atronochs are waaaaaaay different types of magics when compared to the spirits that come directly from nature themselves, probably bad to even compare them at all.

If you are looking for Skyrim''s Magic you only really need to focus on Skaal lore. They are more akin to the ancient nords who revere and worship Nature. In Morrowind, the nords would often ally themselves with wild witches and could even be found revering/worshipping/living with Spriggans. So Nord magic is, as you say, more attuned to Nature. But only in the case of those who live like the Skaal, which after the Imperials began to rule is next to no one.

As for Briarhearts being undead, I wouldn't really consider them to be. From Neloth's description they still have life-force, but it comes entirely from nature and they forgo their own during the rituals. Just because its a nature life force, I wouldn't consider them dead. They really become more like Spriggans I'd bet, natural spirits take over their life force and enhance their physical capabilities, though they probably still "maintain direct control" so to speak.

As far as a "good and bad force" I have no idea what you are thinking of there. There really is no clearcut malevloence/benevolence in TES lore. Not even Daedra are wholly malevolent, so its a stretch to call spirits "Bad force" in any way.

Hagravens are still of Nirn, and I wouldn't call them bad either (mostly because of the above) If they were all bad the Forsworn wouldn't revere them, and they wouldn't lead the Forsworn. They are likely just very protective of nature and probably see civilized people as perverse to nature. That'd be my bet there, since again very little in TES is ever wholly evil.

Frost Wraiths, I'm not sure. I beleive those are also spirits. Though ingame book mentions them being possibly some result of wild magic from "Skyrim itself". Wisp Mothers are definately spirits as they are capable of corrupting and haunting people's dreams as was proven in the Pale Lady quest. I don't think they are undead spirits, if they are they are probably spirits of powerful nature-witches.

[Vysebane]

Hagravens are equivalent to Vampires and Werewolves as they are forms granted to mortals by Daedric Princes (or the "Old gods"). Vampires are the create of Molag Bal, despite Clavicus Vile's patronage to the Cyrodiilic vampires. Werewolves are the product of Hircine. Many also believe that Hagravens are the product of Hircine, but this is just speculation based on the physical and instinctual nature of Hagravens. Its is more predominant to say that Nocturnal was the cause of the Hagraven transformation, though as a form of punishment. To me this makes sense as Nocturnal is the founder of her Nightingales... named after a bird.

"Many of them are worshipers of Nocturnal and blinded with the idea that the Prince might hold secrets in the dark and would eventually share them with the most faithful. While it is true that Nocturnal gifted some witches with some knowledge once or twice (such as the raven form), the independent witches are usually too self-centered to resist the temptations of Oblivion and their lust for power leads them to their own demise. The case of Hagraven is a typical example of chastisement from Nocturnal. The Prince is known to physically appear as a hag if light is ever shed on her, and ravens are her servants. While many witches are able to transform into huge ravens, those who have angered the Prince, or broken a Sceal of Silence, will transform, permanently and irremediably, into Hagravens or Harpies."

-excerpt from "Independent Witches & Hagravens"
http://teslore.wikia.com/wiki/Witchcraft,_Hagravens,_Covens

Witches still worship different daedric princes, the Glenmoril coven is known to worship Hircine and is a highlight witch coven in the Elder Scrolls series. But seeing as a Hagraven is the form of a raven and crone, mutilated in form of chastisement, I believe its more of an abomination or cursed just like werewolves and vampires... all them used to be human and sought power from daedric princes. And like any curse, many believe it to be a gift. Molag Bal claims the souls of his vampire brethren in exchange for the power (hence why they can enter the Soul Cairn as they have no soul). Hircine claims souls for The Wild Hunt in his plain of oblivion after his creations die (They have a soul during life - its of lesser size). And lastly, Nocturnal transforms those seeking too deep for her secrets as a punishment method (Hagravens have common soul size - they keep their souls too).

Briarhearts are different. They are created like an automaton, soul torn from their bodies (along with their heart and will) and so have no control over themselves. The briarheart is placed inside sort of like a gyro power core found in dwemer machinery. a magical construct that obeys its creator with exceptional powers of its own. This is evident when you pickpocket the briarheart out of their chest, as they die immediatly afterwards.

Spriggans are a natural part of Nirn (the body of Lorkhan, as some call it). though magical, they exist in that world not as a daedra or man/mer. They are just a natural creature with instincts and awareness like any other animal and thats basically what it is. All animals have the spirt of nirn inside them. Just because an animal has magic doesn't make it less an animal. a beast is an animal one fears. I could easily call a Spriggan a beast as it does nothing but protect its home like any wolf, bear, or sabre does. And I think a Sabre Cat is more deadly than spriggans and it has no magic. It has a soul and has life much like a plant and though technically a plant isn't an animal or beast, plants are living creatures too. Spiders are arachnids but still fall under animal beasts that are apart of Nirn as well, if that helps any.

Wispmother is a shade that fades in and out of the ethereal plain. Much like your Ethereal shout. Its a spirit. But it has a greater soul. So it is not undead. Still a Spirit of Nirn though.

Frost Wraiths (they are actually Ice Wraiths) are created by Nirn, much like spriggans. same behaviors as spriggans they live in specific regions, Nords hunt them for initiation purposes because they are a great beast. Much like native americans would hunt buffalo to become a man. Instead of a plant-like animal, this one is of ice. It has a soul like a spriggan and it is a spirit like one. If you can send the lesser soul of an ice wraith into a soul gem to live in the Soul Cairn, it is apart of Nirn.

In conclusion:
Hagraven: Cursed
Briarheart: Automaton
Spriggan: Beast/Spirit of Nirn
Wispmother: Beast/Spirit of Nirn
Ice Wraith: Beast/ Spirit of Nirn

For the Daedric Prince malevolence/benevolence thing:
Benevolent Princes:
Azura
Meridia

Malevolent Princes:
Mahrunes Dagon
Vaermina
Peryite

All the rest of the Princes are neutral and can flow either direction. Mahrunes Dagon is most notably to Satan of the Daedric Princes as seen in Oblivion. He does in fact want Nirn to be destroyed and to merge the plains of oblivion with it.

Also srry for the necropost. I love TES Lore. I actaully love the idea of Hagravens as a form to be used by the player like Werewolves, Vampire Lord, and even Lich from the Undeath mod. Would be cool to see a mod that features a lore-friendly approach to the Hagraven form, specifically in a specialized way where your able to revert in human form... maybe a trinket that must be worn to stay human, without it your hagraven eternal. A dream mod for sure. :) (as the inspiring factor, I loved the undeath mod. Would love to see more of that lore-friendly amazing stuffs especially I love everything about Daedric Princes)