Which Daedric prince would you worship?

[Hare+Guu!]

You can only choose one.

Protip: Only 16 show up in Skyrim. So no Jyggalag.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Princes

Sanguine seems like a cool dude. He also gave me a nice rose to summon Dremora with as a low level.

[Hare+Guu!]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

From now, please use spoiler marks * ; )

If you're going into the discussion of all daedric related things, it's assumed you've done practically everything in Skyrim. Otherwise there's no point in even checking the thread.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Daedra can be killed. It is not a theory. It is established in the game lore, whether you can do it, see a way to, or not. IF the Aedra can die, who are so named for no other reason than the fact they chose death thanks to trickery, then the Daedra who are alos spirits may be killed by themselves or another...Depending on the right circumstances.

In the established canon it is clear the Daedra DO NOT DIE in the story, except maybe in Sheogorath's case. Throughout history not one Daedra has to die, nor has, again, except maybe Sheogorath. Sheogorath aside, though, we see spirits do die and change, whether Aedra, Tiber Septim, or dragons. Daedra are CAPABLE of being killed or dying based on all of the evidence. The translation of the soul into the physical and back to Aetherius again carries the dynamic clear enough to see. One day, if the writers decide it, a Daedra can die, and become a part of Mundus. So far, we have not seen it. Except perhaps Sheogorath...

It is not a theory. It is a factual possibility in accordance with the story and its world. The Daedra merely chose not to die. One day they may choose it, or be killed.

I am even forgetting now to mention Malacath, who was an Aedric spirit and champion of Mer gods before the Daedra forcibly twisted him. Lorkhan was actually killed by Mer gods, if I remeber correctly. So yes, it is observable, not just my suggestion. I would not mention it if it were so noncanon, unless I could not see properly. But from Skyrim alone all of this is abundantly clear. Especially when Dragons are cross between spirit and flesh.

It is a theory. Incorrect, according to established lore. "Factual possibility". That's cute. Never heard that before.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Hare+Guu!:

On the topic of immortal like beings, do ideal masters count as daedric princes? They seem to be higher up considering you can't say their names.


Dovahkiin never slayed any gods on his own. When Alduin died, there were 3 people/ghosts fighting him as well.

Sorry, but the Ideal Masters are Daedra. Not well known. But are called some sort of Daedra in the game. Creepy too.

From now, please use spoiler marks * ; )

Again you are mistaken. There is no indication that the ideal masters are daedra. Everything stated in Elder Scrolls lore states that nobody knows what exactly they are.

[Spool]

I don`t recall Sheogorath dying, only being reincarnated after Jyggalag is defeated(not the same as dying).

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από insano:

I don`t recall Sheogorath dying, only being reincarnated after Jyggalag is defeated(not the same as dying).

Indeed. Sheogorath was Jyggalag. Once defeated, he was able to reconstitute himself and was free from the curse that the other daedric princes placed upon him. What happened then was that the Champion of Cyrodiil eventually became a daedric prince himself. Ascended mortal is not an uncommon origin for a deity in roleplaying games.

[Melletch]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Daedra can be killed. It is not a theory. It is established in the game lore, whether you can do it, see a way to, or not. IF the Aedra can die, who are so named for no other reason than the fact they chose death thanks to trickery, then the Daedra who are alos spirits may be killed by themselves or another...Depending on the right circumstances.

In the established canon it is clear the Daedra DO NOT DIE in the story, except maybe in Sheogorath's case. Throughout history not one Daedra has to die, nor has, again, except maybe Sheogorath. Sheogorath aside, though, we see spirits do die and change, whether Aedra, Tiber Septim, or dragons. Daedra are CAPABLE of being killed or dying based on all of the evidence. The translation of the soul into the physical and back to Aetherius again carries the dynamic clear enough to see. One day, if the writers decide it, a Daedra can die, and become a part of Mundus. So far, we have not seen it. Except perhaps Sheogorath...

It is not a theory. It is a factual possibility in accordance with the story and its world. The Daedra merely chose not to die. One day they may choose it, or be killed.

I am even forgetting now to mention Malacath, who was an Aedric spirit and champion of Mer gods before the Daedra forcibly twisted him. Lorkhan was actually killed by Mer gods, if I remeber correctly. So yes, it is observable, not just my suggestion. I would not mention it if it were so noncanon, unless I could not see properly. But from Skyrim alone all of this is abundantly clear. Especially when Dragons are cross between spirit and flesh.

It is a theory. Incorrect, according to established lore. "Factual possibility". That's cute. Never heard that before.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Sorry, but the Ideal Masters are Daedra. Not well known. But are called some sort of Daedra in the game. Creepy too.

From now, please use spoiler marks * ; )

Again you are mistaken. There is no indication that the ideal masters are daedra. Everything stated in Elder Scrolls lore states that nobody knows what exactly they are.

Yeah, guess what's cuter...

Those people who stick to the most blatant of facts and ignore everything else which also stands up to scrutiny. Established is that spirits are able to be killed, turned into something mortal, and those mortal things or creatures may become Aedra or Daedra as well. The Cycle of spirits is covered extensively in Skyrim through every hint, allusion, and substance of what we still call fact and official canon. Daedra can die. When I say 'factually possible' I simply mean it is not impossible. I acknowledge we have not seen it, but that is why they are called Daedra, not because they can always be immortal under all circumstances, even the ones that killed the Aedra. A Daedra may commit suicide one day, and lo and behold, we have a dead Daedra, perhaps a new race or feature to Nirn, and the day proceeds. Until then, it is theological fact. Daedra are capable of dying. Some are even Aedra still.

Some of the Daedra are less evil, and chose not to die. But their goodness like Aedra proves the Daedra are only those who survive, those who continue to live. A trick will kill them. Sheogorath may have his revenge by driving them to their grave, or the constant bickering will lead to something drastic. None of these situations occur, but are plausible and realistic to the established canon. Think...Don't just say "Well generally they are immortal..." The only distinction between Aedra and Daedra is that the Daedra have not died, not that they cannot.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

It is a theory. Incorrect, according to established lore. "Factual possibility". That's cute. Never heard that before.



Again you are mistaken. There is no indication that the ideal masters are daedra. Everything stated in Elder Scrolls lore states that nobody knows what exactly they are.

Yeah, guess what's cuter...

Those people who stick to the most blatant of facts and ignore everything else which also stands up to scrutiny. Established is that spirits are able to be killed, turned into something mortal, and those mortal things or creatures may become Aedra or Daedra as well. The Cycle of spirits is covered extensively in Skyrim through every hint, allusion, and substance of what we still call fact and official canon. Daedra can die. When I say 'factually possible' I simply mean it is not impossible. I acknowledge we have not seen it, but that is why they are called Daedra, not because they can always be immortal under all circumstances, even the ones that killed the Aedra. A Daedra may commit suicide one day, and lo and behold, we have a dead Daedra, perhaps a new race or feature to Nirn, and the day proceeds. Until then, it is theological fact. Daedra are capable of dying. Some are even Aedra still.

Some of the Daedra are less evil, and chose not to die. But their goodness like Aedra proves the Daedra are only those who survive, those who continue to live. A trick will kill them. Sheogorath may have his revenge by driving them to their grave, or the constant bickering will lead to something drastic. None of these situations occur, but are plausible and realistic to the established canon. Think...Don't just say "Well generally they are immortal..." The only distinction between Aedra and Daedra is that the Daedra have not died, not that they cannot.

That's all nice, but you still cannot escape....

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedra

A Daedroth's physical form can be ruined, but they cannot be truly killed; the soul or Animus of a slain Daedroth returns to the void of Oblivion until it manages to coalesce into a physical form again.

You cannot argue with word of god, which is what you are doing.

[Melletch]

You are using a wiki quote over in-game, in-universe FACT!!! AGGGGHAHHHH!!!

I have been a part of wikis before, they don't always allow for you to stare at the subject matter and figure it out when stated in only so so a way. Practically, generally, normally....That is what HAPPENS!!! Yes! But under the correct, possible, 100% accurate circumstances, you can have a Daedra completely die and become an Earth-Bone or Race. Step back and think of the 'What ifs'. They are not true in that they didn't happen. Yet they are indeed possible and predictable given the facts we can gather besides the one of many details involving Daedra which addresses their usual lifespan in Mundus. They can die in Oblivion for all I care. But they can die.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

You are using a wiki quote over in-game, in-universe FACT!!! AGGGGHAHHHH!!!

I have been a part of wikis before, they don't always allow for you to stare at the subject matter and figure it out when stated in only so so a way. Practically, generally, normally....That is what HAPPENS!!! Yes! But under the correct, possible, 100% accurate circumstances, you can have a Daedra completely die and become an Earth-Bone or Race. Step back and think of the 'What ifs'. They are not true in that they didn't happen. Yet they are indeed possible and predictable given the facts we can gather besides the one of many details involving Daedra which addresses their usual lifespan in Mundus. They can die in Oblivion for all I care. But they can die.

Annotation. Word of god.

We do not die. We do not fear death. Destroy the Body, and the Animus is cast into The Darkness. But the Animus returns.

Again, word of god is superior to word of Melletch. Sorry.

[voehringer_nitron]

You obviously aren't even looking at the wiki page, because the information contains references, in the form of books that appear in multiple games. The above specifically contains a link to the book "The Spirit of the Daedra" which appears in Skyrim, amongst other games. Quote: "We do not die. We do not fear death. Destroy the Body, and the Animus is cast into The Darkness. But the Animus returns."

I quoted "Aedra and Daedra" earlier: "As part of the divine contract of creation, the Aedra can be killed. Witness Lorkhan and the moons. The protean Daedra, for whom the rules do not apply, can only be banished."

*This* is in-game, in-universe fact. You are merely using syllogisms. Aedra are spirits, Aedra can die. Daedra are spirits, Daedra can die. You may as well say that butterflies are dragons, because they both have wings. Oh, wait! Butterflies can die! Butterflies are Aedra!

[Melletch]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από voehringer_nitron:

You obviously aren't even looking at the wiki page, because the information contains references, in the form of books that appear in multiple games. The above specifically contains a link to the book "The Spirit of the Daedra" which appears in Skyrim, amongst other games. Quote: "We do not die. We do not fear death. Destroy the Body, and the Animus is cast into The Darkness. But the Animus returns."

I quoted "Aedra and Daedra" earlier: "As part of the divine contract of creation, the Aedra can be killed. Witness Lorkhan and the moons. The protean Daedra, for whom the rules do not apply, can only be banished."

*This* is in-game, in-universe fact. You are merely using syllogisms. Aedra are spirits, Aedra can die. Daedra are spirits, Daedra can die. You may as well say that butterflies are dragons, because they both have wings. Oh, wait! Butterflies can die! Butterflies are Aedra!

Yeah, I have seen the page. You are quoting a book that is written for humans and elves in-universe, you know. From the mortal side of things Daedra cannot be killed. I am not denying that. I am agreeing with the book and established canon. However, just as the Altmer cannot understand how Talos can become a god, even when it is in the theology of their religion and the knowledge concerning the Dragonborn, there are facts not directly stated in those books. As it would defeat the purpose of the book to say Daedra can be killed when it is not historically possible, even if technically a possibility, they do not tell the mage, warrior, or thief to try and kill a Daedra in full. It is technically impossible with any approach that they may make and is orthodox.

However, an unknown, unorthodox, or comparable method to what killed the Aedra can technically still turn a Daedra into creation. They simply refused the bargain, and few other ways have been alluded to in order to kill these god-like beings. Although Talos did not slay Molag Bol completely, he very well could have. Lorkhan, as per established canon you can find on a wiki too, was in fact killed by another. Aedra are able to come back enough to help at times, and Daedra die enough to leave everyone alone. But there is a way for them to change, to die, just like the Aedra. It is written in "The Monomyth" and "Aedra and Daedra" in spite of being left unsaid. It is clear, it IS logical, and there are too many things against simply quoting the blunt, mortal surface of the theology in the world. It is not speculation, it is easy to see and figure out from paying attention.

And the word "Aedra" and the word "Daedra" are just words. The distinction was made by the elves in their language. It only indicates one is alive and immortal still, but the other is dead and was always capable of dying. It is more like taking two butterflies, calling them different names, and saying because one is dead and the other is alive, the latter cannot die.

That is severely twisting evidence. I am not just mentioning books. I am referring to the Skaald who calls the Daedra "Poor Creators" on Solthseim, since they refuse to kill themselves and instead morph creation itself into werewolves, their atronach bodies for themselves, and vampires, biles, and other unpleasantries.

Oh, yes, I am ignoring everything. From the books which deal with up-front, mortal dealings with the Daedra, to the Fire, Frost, and Storm Atronachs, to the fact Dibella's immoral side should have made her a Daedra, to Malacath who used to be an Aedric spirit before torture which changed him and the Orsimer, to the fact Meridia could have chosen to be an Aedra with her righteous streak, to the Dragonborn with an immortal dragon soul in a mortal's body, to like dragons who are also mortal and immortal, Aetherius and Mundus, and to the fact spirit, body, mortality, and immortality are all exchanged by all entities in The Elder Scrolls throughout time, whether dying and going to Sovngarde, turning to Earth-Bones, or transforming into Sheogorath, the Daedric Prince of Madness.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Dude, learning when to cut your losses is important. Word of god says you are wrong. Just let it go.

[Diogenes]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

Dude, learning when to cut your losses is important. Word of god says you are wrong. Just let it go.

One can kill a god, if one stops believing in god.

Is belief not, after all, the source of a gods power ultimately?

[Melletch]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Cadderley:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

Dude, learning when to cut your losses is important. Word of god says you are wrong. Just let it go.

One can kill a god, if one stops believing in god.

Is belief not, after all, the source of a gods power ultimately?

Nope. God is God. With power stronger than your belief it is just belief.

[Melletch]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

Dude, learning when to cut your losses is important. Word of god says you are wrong. Just let it go.

Your loss, not mine. This is really easy to understand and if they said it more directly in the game or one of its books you would do a 180.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Melletch:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Two Bears:

Dude, learning when to cut your losses is important. Word of god says you are wrong. Just let it go.

Your loss, not mine. This is really easy to understand and if they said it more directly in the game or one of its books you would do a 180.

If it was canon that daedra are mortal then I would regard daedra being mortal as canon. Very good.