Racism in Skyrim

[Trenburger]

I can understand many of the Nord's racism against Elves, but why against all the other races too? (If you don't know the lore, here is a shortened down version: The Nords once lived peacefully with the elves, but the elves started the view the Nords as a threat because of how fast they reproduced, and one day waged a completely unexpected genocide on them and brutally slaughtered all the Nords, woman and children included, with only Ysgramor and his sons surviving. The day was forever remembered as the Night of Tears. Ysgramor eventually returned along with 500 companions and exacted vengance against the elves, slaughtering most of them, even the woman and children in their fury. Eventually, many of the elves were driven out of Skyrim.)

In my point of view, I feel that Bethesda got kinda lazy and only made many Nords, especially Ulfric, to be incredibly racist againt all who aren't Nords so there would actually be a reason to join the Empire (because there is no reason for Nords to hate other races besides the elves). If the Nords weren't racist, very few would play the Empire side. Despite the fact I don't care about politics much in Skyrim and only joined the Stormcloaks due to personal reasons (the imperials deciding to execute me despite my innocence, and even Tullius didn't care), I felt that Bethesda should have created a different reason to join the empire besides racism.

Anyways, the racism is actually quite funny sometimes.
- " You'll make a fine rug, cat!"

EDIT: ALRIGHT! I lied... I am actually a very strong supporter of the stormcloaks and always join them whether I'm playing a good or evil character. I just didn't want to start a ♥♥♥♥♥torm of debates because I could care less how people choose to play their games :P. Just have fun and pick whatever side you believe the most in, because just like real life politics, there is much blame on both sides. I will respect any of your opinions.

ONE MORE EDIT: Why don't the imperials and Stormcloakes jsut join forces and bring the fight to the thalmor? They got the Dragonborn on their side who can probably wipe out the entire aldmeri dominion on his/her own. It would be a win win situation for both sides: Both sides get waht they want and no blood (besides the thalmor) is spilt.

FINAL EDIT: I knew it would come to a butthurt argument sooner or later. Try to ignore those that troll or take things way too seriously. I would prefer that this discussion stays open and not become locked.

[Dux]

Can't be arsed to explain again why Ulfric isn't a Thalmor agent so I'm just going to link to a previous post I made concerning the Thalmor Dossier: http://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/617320628018923280/#c617320628069020686

And I'm pro-Empire btw, I'm no way biased.

[Peahatche]

What do you mean innocent you were caught crossing the border from tamriel illegaly. Punishent is a bit harsh, granted.

[JustOnePepsi]

引用自 Dalamite：

Here to make an argument against pro-stormcloaks.
Ulfric is in service to the Thalmor.

Proof: Once you get the main quest where you have to infiltrate the Thalmor Embassy near Solitude, Ulfric Stormcloak's dossier states that he was captured and tortured by the Thalmor, and led to believe that his giving of information to the Thalmor caused one of the biggest massacres during the Great war. Ulfric is at this point basically a sleeper agent, you all know how he responded to Elenwen in High Hrothgar at the peace council, he's afraid of her.
He's afraid of all the Thalmor, he'll lose against them, that's for sure.

And here's a pro-empire argument.
Once the Civil War has been won by the empire, the Legion will have time to regroup and reshape. Remember that all the forces in Skyrim are just one of many legions(The 4th, in fact). The Empire has more than enough power to take Skyrim by force if it deemed it paramount. The point is that the Thalmor are preparing a mass genocide on Tamriel and all other Mer, Humans, and Beastmen. I believe that if anyone would be capable of stopping the Altmeri invasion, it will be the Legion.

Additionally, if a player plays it well(Becomes in Liege with the Dark Brotherhood, assassinates the Emperor, becomes guildmaster of the Thieves' guild, Harbinger of the Companions, Archmage of the College, Legate in the Legion, thane in all holds) he is a VERY likely candidate to become the next Emperor himself. Go figure, with political power, a guild of assassins and scholars at his back, and even one of the Legion generals as his personal friend, the claim of being Dragonborn like Talos himself, and (Considering you've finished the DLCs) the ability to enslave DRAGONS, he's basically a physical god. The Dragonborn at this point, with the Legions at his back, would possibly be able to defeat the Altmeri forces.

I'm kind of Wild-Mass-Guessing here, but it's more than possible that this happens.

No. The dossier mentions Ulfric as an asset only because of the instability he provides.

The dossier even specifically mentions that a Stormcloak victory is just as undesirable as an Imperial one. They want Skyrim to remain in civil war... they don't want either side to win, because a unified Skyrim, no matter which side unifies it, is dangerous to the Thalmor.

They didn't try to intervene with the execution of Ulfric because he's on their side, they tried to intervene with the execution of Ulfric because it would stop the war. And the war ending prematurely wrecks their plans. They need the war to continue as long as possible so that Skyrim is left as weak as possible.

Also, just because the Stormcloaks wish to push the Empire out of Skyrim, doesn't mean the Empire ceases to exist. It just means that the Empire is pushed back to Cyrodiil and whatever other provinces they currently maintain control.

An argument could be made that in the event of a full-scale Thalmor invasion, the Nords wouldn't be able to defend Skyrim on their own, and after being pushed out, the Empire would likely say "screw you, bud...". Which would certainly be a possibility... but I saw no evidence in the game to suggest that the Thalmor are capable of such a strategy. Hence the war of political attrition and subterfuge.

[Incunabulum]

引用自 Maya：

Both are also essentialy talking animals and let us face it.

No offense, but that's exactly what *humans* are.

[76561198119391273]

引用自 Incunabulum：

引用自 Maya：

Both are also essentialy talking animals and let us face it.

No offense, but that's exactly what *humans* are.

You know what I meant. No need to nitpick.

(-_-)

[Trenburger]

引用自 Incunabulum：

If you don't think the other races of Tamriel aren't racist - you're not paying attention.

The Nords (and the Altmer) are *seperatists*, but even the empire is racist as feth. Imperial racims simply takes the 'I'm better than you and only tolerate your existence as long as you are useful and don't cause too much trouble' form.

Hmmm... I do not think the Imperials are racist at all. It's true that Tullius views many of the Nords with distrust because of their usually "barbaric" like attitudes (always wanting to be stronger and constantly fighting with others), but in the end, the imperials only want to stop the rebellion and enforce the older laws. They may not give a ♥♥♥♥ about the ban on talos, but to me they are in no way racist like the majority of the stormcloaks.

[Trenburger]

引用自 darkknight4321234：

OK. Time for my two cents. I'm going to leave the issue of racism aside. I'm going to concentrate on bona fide reasons for joining either side. Yes, the Imperials just tried to kill you, an innocent. Yes the Imperials are suppressing Talos worship. Yes, the Imperials are practising cultural suppression. In one thing however they are right. The Nords by themselves CANNOT stop the Aldmeri Dominion. The entire reason the Imperials are suppressing Talos worship in the first place is the Dominion. So if you are a Dominion hater, then join the Imperials.

As for the Stormcloaks, well...remember when General Tullius said, " some here in Helgen call you a hero. But a hero doesn't use a power like The Voice to murder his king and usurp his throne." I hate to break it to you, but that is EXACTLY what Ulfric did. Also remember when you first enter Solitude, and the prisoner about to be beheaded say, "Ulfric challenged Torygg to fair combat." Again I hate to break it to you, but using The Voice against someone without it is NOT fair combat. In his defense though, King Torygg was basically a bought and paid for puppet of the empire. So if you're a hater of cultural suppression and political strong arm tactics, join the Stormcloaks.

In a way I agree, but I also disagree in a way. The thalmor want the civil war to keep on lasting, so more and more resources are spent, as well as good men, so they can finally rush into skyrim when the sides are weakened and fragile to completely take over. However, there is one fatal mistake: The side that wins will always have the Dragonborn, and the dragonborn is probably strong enough to kick the asses of the entire Aldmeri Dominion himself. I don't exactly know if your thuum argument is valid, because that's like saying archers should fight against warriors with a sword. Besides, ulfric only knocked torygg dowh with the shout, and a skilled swordsman can easily just get back up and keep fighting. The shout will blow you down some distance from the shouter and thats more than enough time to get back up onto your feet.

[Trenburger]

引用自 Delta 1038：

引用自 CVC Grouse：

And the Nords (when I say Nords I refer to the Stormcloak guys, not the general populace of Skyrim) are more Traditionalists than actual racists...

Disagree on that one although it could just be because they use the same guard dialogue. You know the

"What is it, RACE?" line when you go near them compared to the more polite one if you're a Nord.

On the other hand, that Stormcloak shopkeeper in Falkreath is a pretty cool guy. Even if he is kind of an ass to his investors.

I do mostly agree. For example, when you play as an orc, the guards simply adress you as "orc" which implies their bitterness toward orcs (or maybe its just a rivalry because both nords and orcs are warriorlike and prefer strength over everything else).

[JustOnePepsi]

引用自 KrazyPotato：

引用自 Incunabulum：

If you don't think the other races of Tamriel aren't racist - you're not paying attention.

The Nords (and the Altmer) are *seperatists*, but even the empire is racist as feth. Imperial racims simply takes the 'I'm better than you and only tolerate your existence as long as you are useful and don't cause too much trouble' form.

Hmmm... I do not think the Imperials are racist at all. It's true that Tullius views many of the Nords with distrust because of their usually "barbaric" like attitudes (always wanting to be stronger and constantly fighting with others), but in the end, the imperials only want to stop the rebellion and enforce the older laws. They may not give a ♥♥♥♥ about the ban on talos, but to me they are in no way racist like the majority of the stormcloaks.

Research "Imperialism" and you might see why the Empire isn't exactly the best choice. In ANY of the games. Outside of maybe Oblivion..

There's a reason why they've always been so obviously inspired by the real Roman Empire and Legion...

Though I am curious as to what makes you think the "majority of Stormcloaks" are racist.

[Trenburger]

引用自 CVC Grouse：

引用自 KrazyPotato：

Hmmm... I do not think the Imperials are racist at all. It's true that Tullius views many of the Nords with distrust because of their usually "barbaric" like attitudes (always wanting to be stronger and constantly fighting with others), but in the end, the imperials only want to stop the rebellion and enforce the older laws. They may not give a ♥♥♥♥ about the ban on talos, but to me they are in no way racist like the majority of the stormcloaks.

Research "Imperialism" and you might see why the Empire isn't exactly the best choice. In ANY of the games. Outside of maybe Oblivion..

There's a reason why they've always been so obviously inspired by the real Roman Empire and Legion...

Though I am curious as to what makes you think the "majority of Stormcloaks" are racist.

It's mostly an assumption on my end, as only whiterun and windhelm is racist, but due to the fact that every nord fighting will yell something like "skyrim belongs to the nords!" makles me think it. Anyways, you are just a strong stormcloak supporter like me! TIME TO BRING THE FIGHT TO THE EMPIRE!

[Dux]

Well they're not wrong are they? Skyrim does belong to the Nords. I'm of the opinion Portugal belongs to the Portuguese, England to the English, Italy to the Italian and Sweden to the Swedes because, well, it's true isn't it? Doesn't make me racist lol.

[Trenburger]

引用自 Dalamite：

Here to make an argument against pro-stormcloaks.
Ulfric is in service to the Thalmor.

Proof: Once you get the main quest where you have to infiltrate the Thalmor Embassy near Solitude, Ulfric Stormcloak's dossier states that he was captured and tortured by the Thalmor, and led to believe that his giving of information to the Thalmor caused one of the biggest massacres during the Great war. Ulfric is at this point basically a sleeper agent, you all know how he responded to Elenwen in High Hrothgar at the peace council, he's afraid of her.
He's afraid of all the Thalmor, he'll lose against them, that's for sure.

And here's a pro-empire argument.
Once the Civil War has been won by the empire, the Legion will have time to regroup and reshape. Remember that all the forces in Skyrim are just one of many legions(The 4th, in fact). The Empire has more than enough power to take Skyrim by force if it deemed it paramount. The point is that the Thalmor are preparing a mass genocide on Tamriel and all other Mer, Humans, and Beastmen. I believe that if anyone would be capable of stopping the Altmeri invasion, it will be the Legion.

Additionally, if a player plays it well(Becomes in Liege with the Dark Brotherhood, assassinates the Emperor, becomes guildmaster of the Thieves' guild, Harbinger of the Companions, Archmage of the College, Legate in the Legion, thane in all holds) he is a VERY likely candidate to become the next Emperor himself. Go figure, with political power, a guild of assassins and scholars at his back, and even one of the Legion generals as his personal friend, the claim of being Dragonborn like Talos himself, and (Considering you've finished the DLCs) the ability to enslave DRAGONS, he's basically a physical god. The Dragonborn at this point, with the Legions at his back, would possibly be able to defeat the Altmeri forces.

I'm kind of Wild-Mass-Guessing here, but it's more than possible that this happens.

Woah, chill them tits of yours. From what your saying, the dragonborn should be a corrupt leader? Accroding to the lore, the dragonborn is a male nord warrior (should be incredible obvious anyways). The dragonborn would never join the dark brotherhood but choose to destroy them as well as not joining the thieves guild. In the end, why don't both stormclaokes and imperials join forces? They both hate the thalmor and with the dragonborn at their backs, they can easily wipe out the elves.
One more thing: Why go with the empire when you play in the dark brotherhood? They are killing the empire, should be joining the stormcloakes if you play as an assassin.

[JustOnePepsi]

引用自 KrazyPotato：

It's mostly an assumption on my end, as only whiterun and windhelm is racist, but due to the fact that every nord fighting will yell something like "skyrim belongs to the nords!" makles me think it. Anyways, you are just a strong stormcloak supporter like me! TIME TO BRING THE FIGHT TO THE EMPIRE!

You're right. It almost seems like a bug, as every Nord bandit you fight seems to scream it as well. I mean, you're a bandit... what do you care, you know?

Why is a bandit that is trying to rob my corpse screaming at me about politics?

Then again, alot of the Dunmer in Morrowind seemed pretty racist with their mistrust and insults flung around about the player. Hell, they didn't even like you as a Dunmer, taking issue with the fact that you weren't a native of Vvardenfell.

Windhelm is the closest you can really get to a "racist" city, considering the segregation of the Dunmer there.

How is Whiterun racist, again? Besides the fact that they don't allow the Khajiit caravans into the city?

Khajiit and Argonians seems to be mistrusted in EVERY city of Skyrim with the exception of Riften though. So to say that racism toward the beast races is exclusive to Stormcloaks or Whiterun is... inaccurate.

引用自 Micael Fatia：

Well they're not wrong are they? Skyrim does belong to the Nords. I'm of the opinion Portugal belongs to the Portuguese, England to the English, Italy to the Italian and Sweden to the Swedes because, well, it's true isn't it? Doesn't make me racist lol.

Basically what I said several posts ago. :p

[Trenburger]

引用自 CVC Grouse：

引用自 KrazyPotato：

It's mostly an assumption on my end, as only whiterun and windhelm is racist, but due to the fact that every nord fighting will yell something like "skyrim belongs to the nords!" makles me think it. Anyways, you are just a strong stormcloak supporter like me! TIME TO BRING THE FIGHT TO THE EMPIRE!

You're right. It almost seems like a bug, as every Nord bandit you fight seems to scream it as well. I mean, you're a bandit... what do you care, you know?

Why is a bandit that is trying to rob my corpse screaming at me about politics?

Then again, alot of the Dunmer in Morrowind seemed pretty racist with their mistrust and insults flung around about the player. Hell, they didn't even like you as a Dunmer, taking issue with the fact that you weren't a native of Vvardenfell.

Windhelm is the closest you can really get to a "racist" city, considering the segregation of the Dunmer there.

How is Whiterun racist, again? Besides the fact that they don't allow the Khajiit caravans into the city?

Khajiit and Argonians seems to be mistrusted in EVERY city of Skyrim with the exception of Riften though. So to say that racism toward the beast races is exclusive to Stormcloaks or Whiterun is... inaccurate.

♥♥♥♥! I completely forgot that the bandits shout that too! They also shout "Victory or Sovangarde!" which makes even less sense when they care nothing about honor and rob and kill innocent defenseless people all the time. I think bethesda just never took that dialogue from them, because that dialogue applies to almost all the other nords as well because they all share one voice actor. Whiterun is only racist when you overtake it on the stormcloak side. Adrianna says that stormcloakes refuse to buy any weapons from her because she is an imperial and only buy from her nord husband, and would be broke if she never married to a nord. Arcadia is also an imperial and claims that the stormclaokes dont buy her potions because they claim she is selling them poison.

[Trenburger]

引用自 Micael Fatia：

Well they're not wrong are they? Skyrim does belong to the Nords. I'm of the opinion Portugal belongs to the Portuguese, England to the English, Italy to the Italian and Sweden to the Swedes because, well, it's true isn't it? Doesn't make me racist lol.

I never thought about it that way. However, isn't that also like saying America should only belong the the americans?