Why does 2h weapons sucks?

[Justice]

They don't deal enough damage compared to 1 handed weapins in terms damage per sec. Hard to defend it with it. 2h weapon are very bad against magers and dragons who use magers or dragon breath. And finaly they are even worse in crowd control.

[dat_potatoe]

Dual Wield does significantly more DPS and Sword/Board is more defensive.

There's nothing unique about Two Handers aside from their range. Oh sure, you can AoE, but only after you've already maxed out the weapon so that's pointless (seriously why does a basic AoE attack require 100 Two handed skill instead of just like 25?) Otherwise their perks are just copy pasted from the one handed tree.

Two Handed weapons are terrible. Only worthwhile in specific mods like Requiem.

[Delta 1038]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

Dual Wield does significantly more DPS and Sword/Board is more defensive.

There's nothing unique about Two Handers aside from their range. Oh sure, you can AoE, but only after you've already maxed out the weapon so that's pointless (seriously why does a basic AoE attack require 100 Two handed skill instead of just like 25?)

Two Handed weapons are terrible. Only worthwhile in specific mods like Requiem.

Not everyone min-maxes.

[dat_potatoe]

Originally posted by Delta 1038:

Not everyone min-maxes.

What an idiotic comment. You don't even have to be a min-maxer to see why they are awful, I don't even min-max. I played with SB, DW, and 2H, and I found them unbearable from actual gameplay experience. Not only inferior, but nothing unique to actually set them apart either. Same perks, can't use magic with them, harder to land hits with, leave you more vulnerable, AND do less damage overall. What's the point?

If you want to play with them for a challenge, go ahead. Doesn't change the fact they still suck. I actually wanted to like these weapons, I really did.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

Originally posted by Delta 1038:

Not everyone min-maxes.

What an idiotic comment. You don't even have to be a min-maxer to see why they are awful, I don't even min-max. I played with SB, DW, and 2H, and I found them unbearable from actual gameplay experience. Not only inferior, but nothing unique to actually set them apart either. Same perks, can't use magic with them, harder to land hits with, leave you more vulnerable, AND do less damage overall. What's the point?

If you want to play with them for a challenge, go ahead. Doesn't change the fact they still suck. I actually wanted to like these weapons, I really did.

So, ability to disarm the enemy, bash him to the ground and then land a close range power attack - with 25 % bonus damage and 20 % change for critical hit - was not good enough 2H experience for you?

Damn. That's picky. If my game wouldn't be set for SkyRe thief/hunter/spellbow then I might actually go for 2H build, just to make a video out of it.

[dat_potatoe]

Originally posted by Ilja (Ref):

So, ability to disarm the enemy, bash him to the ground and then land a close range power attack - with 25 % bonus damage and 20 % change for critical hit - was not good enough 2H experience for you?

Since when can you disarm and knock people around in the vanilla game?

You can knock people around in SkyRe but I'm not talking about SkyRe, I'm talking about Skyrim itself.

As for 25% bonus damage and 20% critical hit chance, *one handed has those same exact perks*. The majority of the perks are copy-pasted between the two trees.

it's basically the same thing but slower, more unwieldly, and with less versatility. A one-hander can offhand a spell, a shield, or another weapon.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

Since when is any of that in the vanilla game, what the hell?

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Two-Handed_%28Skyrim%29

In here:
Two-Handed: Devastating Blow and Deep Wounds
Block: Disarming Bash and Deadly Bash

This is what I like in Skyrim. Most skills can be combined and they support each other. The righ side of Block skilltree can be used with weapons as well. :)

My only complain is, that spells do not work with same logic. There really isn't a lot of useful combinations between then and synergy with other skills are off. This is why I have moved to SkyRe, where silent skills and even sneak attacks with spells are taken in to count.

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

You can knock people around in SkyRe but I'm not talking about SkyRe, I'm talking about Skyrim itself.

So was I.

Skyrim:Block UESPWiki
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Block

[dat_potatoe]

Originally posted by Ilja (Ref):

This is what I like in Skyrim. Most skills can be combined and they support each other. The righ side of Block skilltree can be used with weapons as well. :)

My only complain is, that spells do not work with same logic. There really isn't a lot of useful combinations between then and synergy with other skills are off. This is why I have moved to SkyRe, where silent skills and even sneak attacks with spells are taken in to count.

That is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Those two perks are also in the one hand tree, and you are justifying Two Handers with *PERKS IN THE BLOCK TREE*. I.e. A SEPARATE TREE FROM TWO HANDING THAT APPLIES TO BOTH ONE HAND AND TWO HAND. *Perks that aren't exclusive to Two Handers*.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

That is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Those two perks are in the one hand tree, and you are justifying Two Handers with *PERKS IN THE BLOCK TREE*. I.e. A SEPARATE TREE FROM TWO HANDING THAT APPLIES TO BOTH ONE HAND AND TWO HAND.

- Those skills are not in one-handed tree, but in Two-handed skill tree.

- Skills are ment to work with each other. Skills in Block tree are skill for both two-handed and one-handed skill trees as well. This is exactly Bethesda meant it to be.

- If we are talking about effectiveness of two-handed weapons, then skills directly related to them count as being relevant.

[sarah]

2h weapons have a greater chance of staggering and they have a little bit more range than a 1h weapon. You can use some block skills with 2h weapons also. Sweep is also kind of nice. I use light armor with my 2h character.

[dat_potatoe]

Originally posted by Ilja (Ref):

- Those skills are not in one-handed tree, but in Two-handed skill tree.

The same skills exist in the one handed tree under a different name. Can you read?

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/One-Handed

You still have the standing power attack, the bonus damage, the sprinting attack, and all that other ♥♥♥♥, as well as dual wielding perks.

- Skills are ment to work with each other. Skills in Block tree are skill for both two-handed and one-handed skill trees as well.

That's my entire point.

There's nothing unique about Two Handers. The only unique perk they have is the AoE one, and they are far less versatile. They are inferior weapons in pretty much every way.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by sarahfla:

2h weapons have a greater chance of staggering and they have a little bit more range than a 1h weapon. You can use some block skills with 2h weapons also. Sweep is also kind of nice. I use light armor with my 2h character.

Yes, I was coming to this. Weapon types are indeed very different. Two-handed weapons can be very devastating.

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

Originally posted by Ilja (Ref):

- Those skills are not in one-handed tree, but in Two-handed skill tree.

The same skills exist in the one handed tree under a different name.

- Skills are ment to work with each other. Skills in Block tree are skill for both two-handed and one-handed skill trees as well.

That's my entire point.

There's nothing unique about Two Handers. The only unique perk they have is the AoE one, and they are far less versatile. They are inferior weapons.

Now you are just being silly and not making any sense.
Are you arguin just for the sake of arguin?

It does not matter if other weapons can use same skills from block tree. Something being "unique" does not make it any less or more effective. If your point is the 2H skill tree, then you should say so. The overal effectinveness of weapon is what counts.

[sarah]

Another add is that you can be moving when you power attack with a 2h, unlike dual wielding where you have to stand still.

[dat_potatoe]

Originally posted by Ilja (Ref):

It does not matter if other weapons can use same skills from block tree. Something being "unique" does not make it any less or more effective. If your point is the 2H skill tree, then you should say so. The overal effectinveness of weapon is what counts.

When something has the same things, and THEN some, it's simply better. More effective.

[Ilja]

Originally posted by sarahfla:

Another add is that you can be moving when you power attack with a 2h, unlike dual wielding where you have to stand still.

You can actually move forward, while doing dual wielding power attack.
Notoriously so: I once fell from the mountain while doing so.
*Ups*

[Ilja]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

When something has the same things, and THEN some, it's simply better. More effective.

You are still not making any sense.
- Two handed weapons have more reach and stagger effect.Perks were made around that principle.

- Light weapons have less reach and stagger, but they are faster to use. Perks were made around that principle.

- Right side of the Block tree is common for both. Are you honestly suggesting that there should be 2 more sets of perks for similar feats; only polished to be better used for these weapon types? For vanilla players, the amount of perks available are already limited. I agree that they were merged as one skill; it was the most player friendly move.

- Left side of Block tree is skil exclusive, for One-handed weapon + Shield users.

I have personally always disliked weapon skills giving perks that are out of their nature, or could be compared to magical skills. This is why I don't like the left side of Block tree. It has simply too much and too powerful effects.