Dragons freezing.. sideways

[hellwisp]

After not encountering any dragons for a while, it appears that they have developed a defense like the fainting goats have :D.
But seriously though my dragons are freezing in place on their left side when damaged. So far it has only happened with melee attacks. Also their health doesn't go down after the get stuck.

My game is heavily modded and I have Perkus Maximus which makes testing for which mod is causing this difficult.. well it takes a lot of time because a lot of mods are masters to the Patchus Maximus.esp and I have to rerun the SkyProc patch.
The patch takes about 30 minutes to complete so I'm turning here in hopes that someone has some knowledge of this problem to avoid the long patching process.

I already tried disabling Deadly Dragons, Dragon Engine, Dragons Shout with Voice, Dragon Animation Replace.
Maybe it's a combat related mod like Locational damage, Duel Realism or Combat Evolved?

Here are some screens of Alduin and a regular Dragon just hanging around.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=412056211
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=412056465
Any tip could be useful so please help a fellow Dovahkiin out!

[Nazenn]

Please post your entire load order here :)

This is certainly a new one for me

[hellwisp]

Originally posted by Nazenn:

Please post your entire load order here :)

This is certainly a new one for me

I don't know how to post a compact Spoiler so it's going to be a wall of text.
Note that Loacational damage usually is not on the bottom. I just reactivated it without running LOOT.

# This file was automatically generated by Mod Organizer.
Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp
Dawnguard.esm
Unofficial Dawnguard Patch.esp
HearthFires.esm
Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Dragonborn Patch.esp
Skyrim Project Optimization - Full Version.esm
Falskaar.esm
Wyrmstooth.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
dragonborngalleryNEW.esp
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
Cutting Room Floor.esp
ClamsDropPearls.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
PumpingIron.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp
83Willows_101BUGS_V4_LowRes.esp
Beards.esp
EnchantedArsenal.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-Hearthfire.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp
fFastTravelSpeedMult_4.esp
SMIM-DungeonsCliffsIceSkirts.esp
Nausicaa's Tweaker.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-Level-2.esp
BFSEffects.esp
AHZmoreHUD.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
Combat Evolved - Core.esp
Combat Evolved - Enemy Poison.esp
Daedric Mage Armor.esp
DaedricAssassinArmorLight.esp
One With Nature - DG+DB.esp
lanterns.esp
DawnguardRuneWeaponsFXSReplacer.esp
Differently Ebony.esp
Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp
No Combat Boundaries - Legendary.esp
Footprints.esp
Footprints - Ash.esp
GQJ_DG_vampireamuletfix.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-DBForevertoMisc.esp
SMIM-FurnitureChestSnowFix.esp
Immersive NPC in the dark.esp
ViewableFactionRanksBothDLC.esp
ImprovedSneakDetection.esp
Moss Rocks.esp
Moss Rocks_DB.esp
BlackHorseCourier.esp
My_Little_kitty.esp
Headtracking.esp
DragonbornGalleryPatchV2.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dungeons.esp
PNENB.esp
Immersive Sounds - Compendium.esp
BetterQuestObjectives.esp
HouseOfHorrorsAlternateEnding.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-Dawnguard.esp
RealShelter.esp
No Combat Boundaries - Falskaar.esp
ORM-Arvak.esp
Dead Body Collision.esp
Paralysis.esp
Extended UI.esp
Elemental Staves.esp
Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
Chesko_WearableLantern.esp
Rainbows.esp
RaceMenu.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Minor Cities and Town Interiors.esp
DaedricAssassinArmorHeavy.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Interiors.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Dawnguard Interiors.esp
Book Covers Skyrim.esp
ExplosiveBoltsVisualized.esp
Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
SkyrimCoinReplacerRedux.esp
Distant DetailHF.esp
Brows.esp
SMDropLitTorch.esp
SMIM-DragonbornTernFix.esp
ShoutsRedragonized.esp
abotFiresHurt.esp
SkyCompleteLegendary.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
Realistic Lighting Overhaul - Major City Exteriors.esp
Improved Artifacts - Complete Collection.esp
BirdsHFclean.esp
Point The Way.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
SkyRealism - Time and Travel.esp
SkyUI.esp
Soul Gems Differ.esp
Thane Weapons Improved - Hearthfire Patch.esp
TradeBarter.esp
Traps Make Noise.esp
WetandCold.esp
AOS.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp
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ImmersiveSpells.esp
DeadlySpellImpacts.esp
IHSS.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueOrcish&DaedricWeapons.esp
ADS.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Master of Disguise - Legendary.esp
Protected NPCs AllinOne Merged.esp
CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp
ArchmageTolfdir.esp
AOS2_DSI Patch.esp
AOS2_RealisticWaterTwo Patch.esp
AOS2_WetandCold Patch.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
When Vampires Attack.esp
aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
BCS - EBS Patch After.esp
Bring Out Your Dead.esp
Essential followers - all followers.esp
AK- Namira for Good Guys.esp
NonEssentialChildren.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-NECPatch.esp
SPTConsistentOlderPeople.esp
RLO - Major City Exteriors - No Guard Torches.esp
BrighterTorchesBiggerMagelight.esp
BCS - EBS Patch Before.esp
BCS - CCOR Patch.esp
ISCompendium CCO Patch.esp
Destroy the Thieves Guild.esp
Master of Disguise - Quest Faction Fixes.esp
DivinePunishmentForArrowsToTheKnee.esp
DaedricPunishmentForSweetrolls.esp
Oblivion Gates v3 - Skyrim + Dawnguard DLC.esp
Thieves Guild Requirements.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-ThievesGuildRequirementsPatch.esp
TorchRadius.esp
CCO_WAFTrueWeapons_Patch.esp
ElementalArrows.esp
PerkusMaximus_Master.esp
PerMa Weaponry Fillout.esp
SkyrimCoinReplacerRedux_PermaPatch.esp
Pre PaMa WAFR CCOR Patch.esp
PerkusMaximus_Thief.esp
BCS - PERMA Patch EN.esp
Pre PaMa BoYD Patch.esp
PerMa Expansion 1 - Wintermyst.esp
AOS2_WAF Patch.esp
DarkManeuvers.esp
Animated Weapon Enchants.esp
Radiant and Unique Potions Poisons and Booze.esp
PerkusMaximus_Mage.esp
imp_helm_legend.esp
SkyrimsUniqueTreasures.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
TheChoiceIsYours.esp
TCIY-BCS Patch.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
Cloaks.esp
Long lost smelters by Hyralux.esp
1nivWICCloaks.esp
CWIDawnDragonPatch.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves.esp
SMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.esp
1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp
Rayya.esp
DaedricCrossbow.esp
Pre PaMa Improved Artifacts.esp
PerkusMaximus_Warrior.esp
Duel - Combat Realism.esp
Post_PatchusMaximus_GiantsAIFix.esp
Lethargy.esp
PerMaExtendedPerkDescriptions.esp
breezehomelightfix.esp
Immersive Patrols II.esp
SFO - Dragonborn.esp
SkyrimImprovedPuddles-DG-HF-DB.esp
Blacksmith's Basement - BHM - ALL DLC.esp
NoxUE2.00.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixes.esp
Farmers Sell Produce - Skyrim.esp
HearthfireChimneys.esp
Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp
AetheriumSwordsnArmor.esp
BCSLL-SKYREorPERMA Patch.esp
Chesko_Frostfall.esp
RealShelterFF.esp
PerMa_Survivalism.esp
Provincial Courier Service.esp
WheelsOfLull.esp
BooksOfSkyrim.esp
MineVendors.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
Long Lost Chopping Blocks.esp
Hunterborn.esp
Hunterborn_Frostfall-Patch.esp
Hunterborn_LanternsAndCandles-Patch.esp
Hunterborn_WearableLantern-Patch.esp
PilgrimsDelight.esp
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
Riften Canal Exit.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Dawnguard.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
KhajiitChildren.esp
BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp
SMIM-ShackRoofFixesDragonborn.esp
dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp
AOS2_EBT Patch.esp
Improved Combat Sounds v2.2.esp
ISCompendium Enhanced Blood Patch.esp
dD-Dragonborn-Dawnguard-EBT Patch.esp
iHUD.esp
iNeed.esp
BlockSparkles.esp
AOS2_IWIE Patch.esp
Gildergreen Regrown.esp
FNISspells.esp
Equipping Overhaul.esp
vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
TheChoiceIsYours_Dawnguard.esp
AK- Boethiah Alternate.esp
Chesko_Step418_SN.esp
KillingTraps.esp
Spells & Lockpicking Restrictions - PerMa.esp
My_Little_hatchling.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
wizDynamicThings.esp
Proper Aiming.esp
nighteye.esp
randomthunder.esp
STEP Extended Patch.esp
Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
LiveAnotherLife_DBM_Patch.esp
Pre PaMa CCF Patch.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
PatchusMaximus.esp
SkyrimSewers.esp
Locational Damage.esp

[Nazenn]

Spoilers dont compact it on steam anyway, it just blacks it out which actually makes it harder to read XD

At first glance, likely culprits are :
Locational Damage.esp
Potentially a combination of the Dragon Engine and FNIS
POTENTIALLY a bug within PerMa itself. While PerMa shouldnt cause it, its a small possibility due to the fact that it is still a little buggy

I dont see anything else in there that I know to be problematic or I think would have the data that might cause something like this though, so other then that I'm not sure. I do recognise a good 95% of your modlist though (fantastic mod list by the way :) )

Worth noting for other random stuff in your load order that is completely unrelated:
- Riften Canal Exit.esp has been upgraded and moved into the Ruffled Feather mod pack under the name Argonian Access. Its much better now, especially when using a water mod so worth upgrading.
- Just make sure you are running Dynamic Things enhanced, and not just the base mod, as it makes several improvements and bug fixes to the original :)
- When you get to your next playthrough and update Dragonborn Legacy, Book Covers Skyrim and the Lost Library addon are fully merged into it so you wont need it seperately any more
- Just checking, are TorchRadius.esp and BrighterTorchesBiggerMagelight.esp compatible?
- Post_PatchusMaximus_GiantsAIFix.esp is that a post patch thing, in which case you may need to set metadata for it in LOOT?

[hellwisp]

Thank you for your suggestions. I will try them out.
Also thanks for pointing me to The Ruffled Feather. Nice pack of mods. I already use some.
I did not Have Dynamic Things Enhanced so I'll get that too.
As for the torch esp's.. probably not compatible. It's hard to keep track of what's already installed a long time ago.
I'm not familiar with metadata settings for LOOT. Might have to look it up

Thank you for the tips and for going through that pile of mods :]

I will check back when I try your suggestions about the possible culprits.

[Nazenn]

Guide : Modding Tools, Tips and Resources
I have some info on loot in there including some stuff on meta data which might help you :)

[hellwisp]

Originally posted by Nazenn:

Guide : Modding Tools, Tips and Resources
I have some info on loot in there including some stuff on meta data which might help you :)

That's quite a comprehensive modding guide. I see that you are immensely knowledgeable about modding Skyrim.

I deactivated Locational Damage. Dragon Engine was already deactivated. Rerun FNIS executable. And installed all the mods you suggested.. that are probably overwriting my old ones, but that should not be a problem right?

After the Patcher is done I will modify the metadata for Post Patchus Maximus esp's and try if the problem is still there. Also there Are PrePaMa patches but I think LOOT handles them.

[Nazenn]

LOOT should handle everything except the post patches. Eventually they will get metadata for them through the update, but they are too new right now :)

[hellwisp]

Unfortunately the problem is still there.
After running the patch I also rerun FNIS to be sure. This wasn't happening some time ago. So it must be caused from one of the more recent mods I have installed. I'm digging deeper.

[Nazenn]

I really dont know what else in your list that I recognise would cause it. I can tell you that other combat mods dont.
If youre somewhat familar with tes5edit, I would suggest going into that and checking for things that edit dragons, and also looking at mods that edit spawning.

Other then that you might just have to narrow it down by disabling groups of mods at a time (dont worry about the perma patch, i doubt that matters for this problem) and seeing when it stops

[hellwisp]

Okay I can fiddle with Tes5Edit.
Won't be the first time I try to isolate a group of mods to find a proble. Takes some time though.
I had the impression that not running the PerMa patch would cause a CTD.

[Nazenn]

Not a ctd, just a LOT of mismatched stats and values XD

[hellwisp]

It does CTD and I can't disable PerMa because then unsurprisingly it crashes when loading a save.

[hellwisp]

I'm happy to say that the problem has been found and it was as you said PerMa itself.. I had a haunch that it could be the perk "Dervish" from Light Weaponry which knocks the targets down when they attack. I don't know why it causes the dragons to freeze.
It's not the only perk that is mafunctioning. "Shove" from Blocking tree works regardless of how much stamina I have. I guess I should post this on PerMa forums on the Nexus.

Anyways thank you very much, Nazenn, for your help, tips and mod suggestions. You really know what you're doing.

[Nazenn]

You cant load a save when removing mods. Uninstalling a mod from a save is incredibly risky and not supported. I thought I mentioned you would have to make a new game to test it but apparently not, sorry about that.

Glad that you got it sorted. When you post this to the PerMa thing, post as much info as you can and your pics. Hopefully rafulin will see it and might be able to jot it down for a bug fix.

Sigh. Perma had such high promises but at this stage its almost worth me making a list of perks not to get because they are so broken :(

[Sepherchorde]

Author of The Dragon Engine here, I can actually say that unlike the above comment may suggest (it being a conflict with FNIS and TDE), that is absolutely and without a doubt not the case.

TDE Has no animation files, and doesn't replace the skeleton of the meshes. The SKSE plugin NiOverride is called by the script that looks for dragons to add tintmasks to, then NiOverride looks through the XML that I set up to see if the dragon model has tintmask data associated with it through NiOverride and what those tintmasks are, then the script randomly selects and applies up to four tintmasks. Also, I use FNIS alongside it and have hever seen this arise.

Other than that, wish I could help you out, but I don't know what is causing that.