Is it me or is Skyrim actually worse than Oblivion when it comes to main and guild plots? [SPOILERS!]

[John Snake[SD]]

(It's just another ranting thread, made by a guy who actually enjoys the game, but can't overcome some of it's flaws...)

Well, I've just killed Alduin in Sovngard, came back to Nirn realm and watched those pesky dragons flying around, telling me how cool I am (and how I should kill them anyway, since they're village-burning ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥)... and nothing else happens.

In Oblivion there was this huge fight between Dagon and Martin Septim in Dragon form, and how it marked the end of a certain age. Then you were praised for your doings and you could get an awesome armor... and it had an actual cut-scene that summarised it all up.

Am I missing something or Skyrim's main plot is just generally weaker, less rewarding and has much less outcome for the game world (keep in mind, that I've also killed Ulfric - at least certain places were guarded by the empire soldiers after that, and cities were partially destroyed)?

Same thing goes for the guilds... I'm yet to start the Dark Brotherhood (which was awesome in Oblivion), but the rest were just meh. And it was funny that as an Archmage I didn't invest a single point in ANY of the magic trees, at least I had to do it for the thieves missions.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been some time since I played Oblivion - I have a strong feeling that the writing in that game was just so much better, with better quests overall... and I don't know if that's just my sentiment or am I on the right tracks over here. Anyone had similar feeling after playing Skyrim for a bit?

[Solomon Hawk]

I haven't played Oblivion, but what you're saying here leads me to think the story/game ends and there is no further play. Am I correct?
If so, that's the difference between Oblivion and Skyrim because Skyrim is open ended and lets you keep playing past the "end game" after defeating Alduin.
I've read that the story/plot in Oblivion was better written.

[ShocksVR #AirLink]

Probably correct; I played Oblivion for 40+ hours and thought the story was well done.

However, Skyrim excells in just about everything else; Oblivion is just too clunky.

[hedgie_yozh]

In terms of plot, yes. Skyrim has less structure than oblivion, which had less structure than Morrowind. (If you want a great main plot, Morrowind is it.) This should not be relevant at all to the open-worldedness of the games, it is simply that Skyrim's faction recognition is sorely lacking in comparison to the previous entries. While it excels in individual NPC interaction, group, faction and event recognition gets a fail.

[John Snake[SD]]

Valkar: You can play Oblivion after finishing the main plot. Some things, however, get permanently disabled (Oblivion Gates).

I've played Morrowind for more hours than Skyrim and Oblivion combined, but I never compared it to them, because it would be unfair for those games: Morrowind beats them when it comes to complexity and (at least to a certain degree) in immersion.

NPC interaction is better developed, yes, but NPC's in general are not that interesting. I still remember my first encounter with Yagrum Bagarn or Vivec (Morrowind), or Uriel Septim VII (Sir Patrick Stewart, hah!) and the Adoring Fan (Oblivion). In Skyrim I can hardly think of such characters - I only smiled once, when I found M'aiq on the road, but he's just an easter egg from previous games. Maybe I'm yet to see a well developed character in this game.

Don't get me wrong: I'll hit 80hrs of gameplay in Skyrim very soon, as I still think it's a really amazing game. I'm going to invest my time in quest mods and I still have plenty things to do in the vanilla game. It's just that Skyrim - more than any other game in the series - looks like a 'playground' for modders (Moonpath to Elsweyr, and yet-to-be-playable Skywind) rather than a genuine cRPG experience, like Morrowind was... and I just don't know if they've made the right decision to invest their time in creating this 'breathing' world at the cost of good storytelling....

[hedgie_yozh]

I was thinking in terms of level of NPC interaction (following), which is better in Skyrim. I do think they also managed to make a few of the NPCs very interesting (like Erandur, whose backstory borders on heartbreaking). I just didn't feel much of a connection with anyone in Morrowind or Oblivion, aside from a mild fondness for Martin Septim's decisions or Ahnassi's ideas of SPECIAL FRIENDship. Do keep an open mind with the Skyrim NPCs, there are a few who are worth the time to ask to follow you about. I fear that you will remain disappointed in the storytelling, though.

[Amycus]

Quests in Oblivion were definetely better, no doubt about that. Not every single quest was about going into a random dungeon to get a certain item, and there were plenty of plot twists and revelations in even the smaller sidequest. Many of which I still remember to this day. As for Skyrim, 99% of them are forgettable.

Mind you, I still love skyrim, it was just a bit of a disappointment, and the reason why I bought the game day 1 instead of waiting was because I excepted the same excellent quests as I had found in Oblivion. That loot is basically useless and that they removed spellmaking doesn't help. The dark brotherhood questline is probably the best example of this. The "main" questline of this was actually pretty good, but all the assassination quests were boring and uninspired (kill this random beggar, with no information as to who ordered his deeath or why? No optional objectives? He is standing in the same place all day just waiting for you to kill him? SERIOUSLY?!)

Thankfully, I still have Morrowind which I am playing now. Still havn't started on the sidequest, and have so far only worked on the mages guild questline (and here you HAVE to specialize in magic in order to advance through the ranks). While I have heard that it is in the main quest Morrowind shines, it feels nice to finally make some quests that aren't "hey, I lost this [insert random item name here] in [insert random cave here]. Now go and fetch it for me for 30 gold". (in fact, so far I havn't received a single quest which asks me to enter a cave or similar). There are also a LOT of more factions available, and they all seem to acknowledge eachother's existance.

[Q]

I've played skyrim/oblivion/morrowind and in the reverse order at that. While I didn't get into Morrowind(I'm not that much of an rpg fan) I could see why it was fun. I just haded the whole blocking system and not allowing me to be in south paw controller on the xbox at the time since thats the only style I can play on controlers. Oblivion was fun and I enjoyed the hell out of it. I enjoy the hell out of skyrim now. But unfortunitly it seems that this series like any game series gets attacked by the poison that affects every game series. When a new game is released, better graphics are created at the loss of story, plot, and content. Sure each new elder scrolls game looks nicer than the previous but it lacks in the story and content, my point. Thats where modders have to come in. They create many mods in which hopefully will make you interested to come back and try playing it a different way. Difference between modders and companys.. Companys make stuff on a budget and to get your money. Modders make things to make it more enjoyable for themselves, but if you like it for your self. They don't seek your money, but if you donate to them that is nice, they seek to improve the game in a way they will like it and hopefully you will too. If you don't like their mod then try others.

[Q]

"hated" the whole blocking system.. and to point out why that was important to me... I don't like magic in games. I can see why its fun but... I don't like using it. I am a stealth/archer/swordsman all the way.. Kinda like Han Solo with the Force. I can see where its usefull but my bow will kill them just as much as a spell will

[Brandybuck]

Skryim guilds, as with Oblivion guilds, no longer have skill requirements for advancement. I consider this a good thing. Unfortunately it was not replaced with anything else. The College faction is a good example of this. On the other hand, the Thieves Guild does require you do at least 20 (probably more) side missions to become the official guild master.

I would extend the Thieves Guild solution to the other factions. Require bounty/mission quests for the Companions, require a few more assassinations for the DB, require more magic related tasks for the College, etc. Heck, just don't allow anyone to be Archmage until they've gotten at least one mastery quest completed and walked the labyrinth.

[Brandybuck]

Originally posted by Amycus:

it feels nice to finally make some quests that aren't "hey, I lost this [insert random item name here] in [insert random cave here]. Now go and fetch it for me for 30 gold". (in fact, so far I havn't received a single quest which asks me to enter a cave or similar).

So I gather you've just STARTED playing Morrowind. Trust me, 95% of faction quests are fetchit and delivery tasks.

[Amycus]

Originally posted by Brandybuck:

Originally posted by Amycus:

it feels nice to finally make some quests that aren't "hey, I lost this [insert random item name here] in [insert random cave here]. Now go and fetch it for me for 30 gold". (in fact, so far I havn't received a single quest which asks me to enter a cave or similar).

So I gather you've just STARTED playing Morrowind. Trust me, 95% of faction quests are fetchit and delivery tasks.

I have played for a week, if that counts as having just started? Achieved warlock rank on the mage guild, only just finished my last mission for sugar-lips, and a few other quests I have stumbled upon "on the road", But still not a quest asking me to enter a cave, and I havn't tried to avoid them.

I have met some deliver and fetch it quests, but its not anywhere near as bad as skyrim. And those who were like that had plenty of options, in both outcome and how to go about achieving something.

[Brandybuck]

I just finished a playthrough of Morrowind just a few months ago. Your experience does not match mine. When I say "fetchit" I mean a quest that sends you out to perform a trivial task, as in "step'n'fetchit". Most may be retrieving or delivering stuff, but not limited by those actions.

Here let me pick one at random from the Fighters Guild... it's a bounty quest. Go find this Khajiit and kill him. Let's try one from the Mages Guild since you're doing it... retrieve membership dues from a guild member. Let's try a Temple quest... Oooo! This one is different! You have to travel to a shrine and touch it. But the twist is that you have a vow of silence and can't talk to anyone. Still a fetchit quest, but at least it has a twist.

p.s. I consider ruins, tombs and fortresses to be caves. If you haven't entered a "cave" yet you haven't progressed very far at all.

[Joel X]

I've never played Morrowind. Actually, I've put off getting Morrowind because I've seen too many Morrowind fans act like insufferable grognards. My experience of Elder Scrolls is limited to Oblivion and Skyrim, with dashes of Arena and Daggerfall.

After putting a hundred hours into Skyrim, my general impression is I like Skyrim's gameplay better, but I liked Oblivion's quest design better. Though I suppose we'd all have a better impression if we just took out the radiant quests. They might have worked in Daggerfall, but not here.

I mean, Oblivion even subverted the "kill X rats" quest you see in most RPGs in the first Fighter's Guild quest[www.uesp.net]. A guild as clichéd as the Fighter's Guild, in a game as (allegedly) clichéd as Oblivion, was able to subvert the traditional rat kill quest. Seriously.

Originally posted by Jusak Menikoks:

It's just that Skyrim - more than any other game in the series - looks like a 'playground' for modders (Moonpath to Elsweyr, and yet-to-be-playable Skywind) rather than a genuine cRPG experience, like Morrowind was

I honestly wouldn't have bought Skyrim if it wasn't a playground for modders. Hell, one of the reasons I haven't picked up Morrowind is because I like Oblivion's and Skyrim's mod scenes better, and one of Skyrim's selling points for me was the hope of a better engine for modders to work with. What other game lets you have hardcore survival sims[www.nexusmods.com], anime cat girls[www.nexusmods.com], and swearing zombies[www.nexusmods.com] at the same time?

Originally posted by Brandybuck:

Skryim guilds, as with Oblivion guilds, no longer have skill requirements for advancement. I consider this a good thing. Unfortunately it was not replaced with anything else.

I would have liked guild entry and advancement to involve performing tasks which happened to need the guild's "favourite" skills to be successful at, which would feel more natural than some guild leader psychically reading my skill values. So far only the thieves guild ever got this. Skyrim's thieves guild had all those radiant quests, and most of those needed some competency in stealth to be successful at. In Oblivion I felt thieves guild advancement was even more natural since all you had to do was steal stuff, and if you're able to steal stuff it can be assumed that you're good at stealth.

[MentallyillGamer(Kaddam)]

You could improve Skyrim with mods. Anyways no you're not mistaken Oblivion is & will always be better than Skyrim.