Daedric lords - evil or not?

[Elaini]

So, lots of things are being said about the Dardric Lords. That they're evil, or not actually evil since they represent change as Aedra represent conservation. Or that they like to use mortals as pawns in a game. What's your idea?

Molag Bal, Hermaeus Mora, Mehrunes Dagon and Sithis are actually evil in my eyes. They won't hesitate a murder in cold blood.

The followers of Sithis actually believe that the Aedra are "false gods", and what Sithis does is cleaning the world up for Daedra, who are real gods their eyes.

Vaermina is a liar. She used that as a last trick when she figured that she was losing.

I actually liked Meridia (especially after a quest given by her which gave me a heap of coin plus a great sword), and I don't understand why the Vigil of Stendarr hunt "all daedra", when they would actually find her most agreeable. (Hint: for getting rich from Meridia's quest, check the desecrated corpses. In each of them the amount of coin is unusually high.)

Sanguine I found rather hilarious... well, in an extreme way. Same with Sheogorath. If those two got together I wonder what happened. It will be a party for sure.

Azura's alignment is still somewhat unclear to me, as is Nocturnal's.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

I find that daedric princes come in five alignment varieties: Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil. Even the most "benevolent" daedra have no real concern for the well being of mortals, and the more manevolent forces among them tend not to hold to law. While they will strike bargains with mortals they regularly go back on their world or betray the mortals as the whim strikes them.

Azura and Nocturnal are examples of lawful neutral. They will make compacts with man, and hold to them. Man will benefit from such compact, and while the daedra do not wish harm upon them their well being is not of concern either.

[TheLazyCloud]

Well to begin with the vigilants were formed about 200 years back at the end of the oblivion crisis. They hunt the deadra worshippers who are heavily involved in necromancy and other pagan rituals. In skyrim you start your adventure at the year of 4E 201 and the reason the vigilants are constantly nagging on about how bad the deadra are, is because they want to prevent another oblivion crisis bla bla.

It all comes down to this, the gates of oblivion are not to be re-opened, because they serve as a direct link between Nirn (the place were the humans live in TES) and the Deadric plane. If they were to be re-opened the Deadra would most likely use it to either use or counquer Nirn, doesnt matter which lord it is, by heart they are harmful to Tamriel because even the most "good" of them all Jyggalag (The prince of order), Meridia etc, Can be dangerous if the aspect of good is taken to far.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

Daedric lords have no moral alignment.

According to lore, yes you are right. According to action, yeah they have alignment, as do all fictional characters.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

They have no alignment, fact.

Daedric Princes see Man and Mer as alien, lesser beings. Their morality is that of a god's, thus they have no moral alignment.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree. All I am saying is that while lore holds that they are above morality, Azura, for example, typically interacts with mortals in a lawful neutral way. Molag Bal, by contrast, acts in a manner typical of neutral evil. That's all.

[TheLazyCloud]

And isn't Nocturnal actually helping the thieves of tamriel?

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by |ŦǾ| Nirwan:

And isn't Nocturnal actually helping the thieves of tamriel?

It is an agreement, and one from which the thieves benefit. It certainly isn't the intention to aid the other, which is typical of good alignment. Think of it like Mr. House from New Vegas. The three families have certainly benefitied from their agreement with House, but he didn't make that agreement for the sake of helping them.

[Maloy20]

Originally posted by |ŦǾ| Nirwan:

And isn't Nocturnal actually helping the thieves of tamriel?

Eh sorta....she helps stealth oriented people in general, but tends to only particularly care about individuals she is making bargains with

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

Acting=/=Moral alignment, since again, we don't truly know the prerogatives and motives behind the Lord's actions. They are as alien to mortals as mortals are alien to them. You can't grade their actions based on a mortals' spectrum of morality. From Dagon's destuction to Azura's alliance with Molag Bal, all are subjective actions at best to mortals.

Again, I understand what you are saying and agree except for the actions not equaling moral alignment. The very foundational rule of RPGing is that your actions determine your alingment, not the other way around.

[TheLazyCloud]

Originally posted by Two Bears:

Originally posted by |ŦǾ| Nirwan:

And isn't Nocturnal actually helping the thieves of tamriel?

It is an agreement, and one from which the thieves benefit. It certainly isn't the intention to aid the other, which is typical of good alignment. Think of it like Mr. House from New Vegas. The three families have certainly benefitied from their agreement with House, but he didn't make that agreement for the sake of helping them.

I see ^^

[TheLazyCloud]

mortal concepts of good and evil cannot be easily applied to them, and to the extent that these concepts do apply, Daedra exist at both ends of the spectrum.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

They have no alignment, get over it by learning more about what you're attempting to talk about.

Oh here we go again. Look, I am not trying to fight with you. Perhaps I am doing a poor job of explaining what I am saying.

Here is a video that may do better than I:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1rLnl85xNg

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Sometimes I wish you would RPG more. Peace to you.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

Pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Non-playable Gods=/=a mortal NPC or playable character.

They have no alignment, fact. Unless you turn into a Bethesda dev, nothing is going to change this.

I don't understand why this makes you so angry, but I will try to explain it one more time. According to lore daedra have no alignment. That was never questioned. In terms of practical play, all characters act in a manner that corresponds with alignment. It is the foundation of dramatic action in an RPG. You cannot have conflict without it. As explained by the video I posted, alignments can change and things are in flux; that's good writing and playing. But the actions still conform to an alignment.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

...You're the one super butthurt that he was proven wrong. Not sure why you can't get over what is commonly known by people that actually know what they are talking about. Their actions don't hint at an alignment anymore than the actions of a dimwit that pets something to death.

But that is where you are wrong. As any good DM will tell you, action determines alignment; your alignment does not determine action. Not sure why this is such a big deal to you. I am agreeing with you. Are you fighting with me just to fight with me? Please stop.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by G The Cure:

They have no alignment, their actions point to no alignment. Get over it.

But I demonstrated above that their actions clearly do point to various alignments.

LMAO at newbs so far behind in the race that they actually think they're leading.

You know, you should think about taking those angry pants off. I am sure they needs a good washing by now.