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Also, she shows a lot of strenght during side missions in Skyrim. She even sends Dragonborn to pay respect to her husband and Talos, despite worship being now outlawed in Skyirm.
Also, Elenwen has few extra secrets that do not exactly come obvious during the game. She has the upper hand and Tullius (veteran of the Great War, like Ulfric - and also against the White-Gold Concordat) is pretty much the only person standing in her way, despite that they are at the "same side."
Widowed Elisif was left as a fourth in her own realm, but stands quite tall despite of that.
Agreed. Grief is not nice. Grief plus the fact that her personal tragedy is also a tragedy of the land and has massive consequences for every citizen - really not nice!
though you ought to consider
her actions and emotional state was unbecoming of a queen in season unending
and considering all the travelling and whatnot in your entire quest along with sidequests and stuff
its well over several months since her husband perish
infact, was it not traditional for the challenge between nords to partake in such duel?
if so, shouldnt she have the iron force will like what you'd expect of Viking women and/or Spartan Women
whom although devastated, would keep it to herself and stand her ground as representing queen
not going
"BY TALOS! YOU MURDERED HIM! MURRRRRDEEEERED HIM! YOU MURDERER!!! HEATHEN! SINNER! YOU MUUUUUUUUUURRRDDEEER HIIIIM!!!"
For the umpteenth time: THERE ARE NO GAMES/BOOKS/MOVIES THAT HAVE NO PLOT HOLES. I listed a few examples in a previous post of yours. Do I need to list more? Actually, maybe you should list a game that you enjoy that you think has no plot holes and watch as people tear it apart.
Viking and Spartan women were real. In actuality, very little is known about everyday life of either, other than the historical info that THEY wrote. Hate to break it to you champ, but history written by people(s) within aren't always accurate. And btw, skyrim IS A GAME. Why in gods name would you compare it to real life? You do know the difference, right?
I tried to be nice before, but I'm done doing so. I can name for you 50 plot holes that you haven't even thought of yet. Why don't I? Because I have enough respect for the people who play this game to not step on that enjoyment, and again, I'm smart enough to know that games will have plot holes.
I'm sorry for the severity of this response, but I hate it when people try to bash others' enjoyment of a game. I've platinumed Dark Souls 1 and 2 on PS. I also play hidden object games. Why, because games, of all variety, are fun, and imho should be taken as such. I play some for story, some for action, some for challenge. If you don't feel that way, that's cool, it's your life. But don't try and stomp on people because they are trying to enjoy a game, for what it's worth.
edit for syntax
Jarl Balgruuf for High King!!!
But no, she's not a great ruler. There's a reason she wasn't High Queen in the first place.
But... no, not exactly. Jarls killing each other is a bit of a thing of the past; while legal for them to challenge each other, it would be a law left around for tradition's sake rather than to actually be used.
Her husband's nickname is the "Boy King" (Not exactly a child but still quite young) so compared to the other good/competent Jarls (Balgruuf, Idgrod, Dengeir), her excuse is that she's just inexperienced. And unlike that prick Siddgeir, Elisif does try ruling not as a Jarl but as the Jarl of Solitude, the Imperial Capital of Skyrim.
Sure she does overreact at time but if you pay attention, she does listen to her advisors. Especially Falk "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥'" Firebeard.
Maybe so, but... perhaps plot wise it made more sense for her to be this way? For instance, they needed Tullius to have a strong presence in the capital, and almost make it seem like he was manipulating Elisif or that he was the one truly pulling the strings by using Solitude as Skyrim's seat of the Empire. I think what helps is that Elisif is somewhat inexperienced and naive, although I think she does show strength as well. Then again, Laila of Riften is pretty resilient, but we all know who's running the show there!
- Her husband was killed
- She is young
- She has the entire city on her head
- General Tullius constantly bothers her with the Civil War
To me that's a recipe for an unstable ruler. And if she wouldn't marry Torygg, she would be sitting in her home drinking mead right now.
This is one of those "too long posts about a simple matter", but replies above seem to have misjudged few things. There is a odd line under Skyrim politics. When you ignore the whole "Dragonborn" thing, the civil war setup looks pretty much like this.
Elenwen
Thalmor, who captured, interrogated and tortured Ulfric. She used him, nurtured his sadness toward peace agreement, turning it in to anger against the Empire. Then she let Ulfric loose, still keeping contact to him and basically orchestrating the civil war in Skyrim. Now she is the Thalmor ambassador in Skyrim, doing her best to manipulate and provoke Ulfric, but doing it by dancing around diplomatic rules and being vary of angering Tullius.
Dragonborn finds information about Ulfric during main quest, but Elenwen's part of this is harder to gather and requires reading their background stories.
Ulfric
Veteran of the Great War, who was captured and tortured by Elenwen. He was to be a puppet used to break the Empire from Skyrim, but managed to escape from Elenwen's direct influence after Markarth incident. Broken and beate on several levels, he is now mostly concerned of himself and his personal power and glory, waging war against the Dominion. In fact, he plans a direct attack against Summerset Isle, once Empire looses it's hold from Skyrim.
He has lost his trust to Empire due White-Gold Concordant and has heavy hatred toward elves. His anger has caused racism in Stormcloak ranks, because Khajiits and other southern peoples had to rely a lot for Thalmor during the Oblivion cirsis and have paid their debt by support to them. Thus Ulfric detest them. His alleged cruelty actions during the Markarth incident is debatable, but he did lead to war that left plenty of Bretons killed in the Reach, causing Forsworn to become hostile against all.
It is easy to see him as a victim, hero or bad guy. He is mostly a mixture of them all, but now mostly after personal glory than anything else.
Tullius
What comes to surprise to many is that Tullius was against the White-Gold Concordant. He didn't really keep his mouth shut about that. Despite of that - or perhaps because of that - Titus send him to Skyrim. It is likely that his point of view benefited the decision, because Titus is considered one of the most brilliant strategists of his time and may have considered that Tullius would win hearts of Nords easier than some fanatic lout. He is the dividing line between Thalmor and Stormcloak, meaning pretty much Elenwen and Ulfric. He is a veteran of the Great War, like Uflric is, making them old brothers in arms.
He also supports the continuing of war against the Dominion, but seems to understand that Ulfric's campaign is madness. It is really unlikely that nords could do more than die in a fire, if they would attack against magically powerful Dominion without imperial mages and forces supporting them. UIfric's civil war keeps cutting down the manpower of the Empire, thus allowing Dominion to grow in strength against them. In Tullius's mind, the faster they can deal with Ulfric the less damage they will suffer.
He is a strict man, loyal to the Empire, despite his opinions about White-Gold Concordant. He was introduced as Thalmor puppet during opening scene, but in reality he is now Elenwen's main opponent in Skyrim, despite that they are "at the same side" due diplomatic reasons. He is also the only one able to tell her to shut her damn mouth, pointing out exactly how much power he has and how unstable Elenwen's position in Skyrim really is. It is unsure how much Tullius knows about what happened between Elenwen and Ulfric, because neither of them are spreading the story around.
Torygg
A "Boy King" was a strong opponent of White-Gold Concordant and a worshipper of Talos. He kept Thalmor Inquisition out of Skyrim and wanted to keep Empire united against the Dominion. His wife, Elisif shared his opinions. Ulfric claims to fight for Talos and Skyrim, against the Dominion, but he still saw fit to kill his king, despite of Torygg's will for war against Thalmor.
This act allowed Inquisition to enter in Skyrim, because Torygg was no longer opposing them and Elisif didn't have king's power to prevent them.
And then we get back to topic:
Elsif
Young jarl was meant to govern day to day matters in Solitude, as a wife to a man leading the whole kingdom. Military matters were not her matter, but belonged under the king. She does not have tactical training and experience. Other jarls do, because they led both cities and their armies from the start. Now Solitude is again a military area, but soldiers there are still not her to command, but marching under imperial colours and orders. She pretty much has only the guard to command, but was wise enough to allow Falk - experienced warrior - to handle that instead. She opposed the White-Gold Concordant (although due to her age, like Torygg, she was not present to oppose it at the time) and wanted to keep Thalmor out of Skyrim.
She is stuck between the conflict of three forces, scheming, keeping secrets and under heavy emotional pressure. By that I meant the emotional pressure between Elenwen, Ulfric and Tullius; Elsif's own grief comes top of that. They all burst out during Season Unending.
Considering Elisif as a "whiner" there only proves that OP didn't reflect the whole situation. The most whining is done by Ulfric, most mocking is done by Elenwen and person most likely to loose his temper with from both of them is Tullius - what Elenwen (who actually seems to be slightly afraid of him) understands. This leaves Elisif with a very minor voice, despite how much strength she would have in her.
I think she is doing just fine.
DP, but I do have to comment this BS.
You don't know a thing about Nordic peoples, now do you? It sounds to me that you have gathered your "facts" from some television series that is more interested of presenting bare breasts of strong women than historical accurate content.
I live in Finland have spent a lot of time getting familiar with the history and stories. I can tell you straight up that your image about Nordic women have nothing to do with reality. They are very emotional, but usually restrict themselves from public displays of extreme emotions - being more reserved than having some special "iron will" toward personal loss. Wife or mother could mourn their loved ones for months, making a point out of that, but also making a point of not wanting any pity of their grief.
Yes. This was true in the days of vikings as well.
If you really insist comparing RL to Skyrim, then Elsif acts a lot like a Nordic woman would. She makes a point about her grief, but she does not ask for pity. She wants justice/revenge, Torygg's legacy fulfilled and his personal faith for Talos to get respected - task that is left to Dragonborn, from her personal request.
She is a better picture of a Nordic woman than some silicon breasted actress, screaming loud and running around with skimpy armor, acting as nothing would touch her emotionally.
TV and comics do not reflect the real life. Now, who knew?
I respect that. I'm from a Scandinavian country myself
Really? Your screen name did not really point to that.
Although, one of my friends uses screen name "Pokute", so... :D
About Nordic mythos and Skyrim, it is a creative mixture of Kalevala and Valhalla mythos. Afterlife and reactions toward it are borrowed from Scandinavian Valhalla mythos. Words of power and viewpoint toward gods in Skyrim (especially Kynareth) seem to be borrowed from Kalevala.
I have to admit that my next male character is somewhat designed after Väinämöinen and Odin; both being stealthy, warriors, mages (in case of Väinämöinen, maybe a shaman) and poets. I have planned that game for a while now. It seems that we finally have proper mods for me to start the game.
I think that Scandinavian mythos is very well known. Those who are completely clueless about Finnish mythos, here is a link to Wikipedia article about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevala