Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
This topic has been locked 
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
So the question comes down to do you wish to help the Thalmor?
@anyone who says "b-but its the nords homeland!"
they took it from the elves that were there before them
@anyone who says "b-but i don't like the thalmor"
the thalmor WANT the stormcloaks to beat the imperials because it would weaken the imperials to the point where they could just finish them off. after that they'd move on to conquering skyrim from the nords.
The Empire was invaded by the Thalmor not long before Skyrim starts. The Imperials signed a treaty known as the White-Gold Concordant(I believe), and this makes Talos worship illegal, and makes the Thalmor stop invading.
Here's my thinking on what happens as you progress.
Imperials are the Government. They try and rule over the land, making it peaceful. They want to outlaw Talos worship so they won't be invaded by a giant Thalmor army again, and possibly lose Cyrrodil.
Stormcloaks are the 'outlaws'. They want Talos worship to remain in Skyrim, as it is part of their old nord traditions. This is banned by the Concordant, so they rebel against the Empire, as they're enforcing it. They want a High King, with Jarls to govern the lands. Ulfric shouted King Torygg, to prove the Empire was defenseless, and then beat him in a fair duel. Ulfric's Stormcloaks rise up, start taking over certain cities, enter Dovahkiin.
The Thalmor have trapped both sides. If stormcloaks win, they have a crippled empire ready for the taking. If the Imperials win, they get their wishes of no Talos worship, and yet again, a crippled empire.(WAR'S EXPENSIVE!)
In my opinion, the best way to think about it is this:
Imperials are in for the long-run. If they break the Concordant, Skyrim, along with other Imperial provinces, will be invaded and taken over. They HAVE to stop Talos worship in order to survive.
Stormcloaks are thinking about the present. They care about their traditions they've had for years, and are very serious about it. They don't care about the consequences, they just go.
In the end, it depends on what YOUR character prefers. Is he a faithful Nord, willing to die for Talos? Or is he an Imperial, trying to protect the greater good? Or are you an Argonian, trading the Jagged Crown to the other side just because you think it's funny? Tough choices.
Unfortunately, the moral relativists and gray moralists that often rule some RPG games like this want the player decisions to be their own and give reasons of good and bad so players may choose, yet the world's theme is usually in favor of gray morality, which is, as always, a falsehood. DragonAge has its world built off of this entirely. I am only guessing at the rest of the Dark Fantasy games, that they have similar worlds. But Skyrim definitely does. Why else do you have the Monomyth book and the Dualism which of Dark and Light, the Is and Is not, which created the Gray, which I think became Mundus??? There are some aspects of their lore specifically for the creation of this original story of things becoming a cohesive timeline instead of Relativity, Temporal and in all choices and identities. It is interesting with the DragonBreaks and the accounting of player choice in the story, coming from a writer who believes in the virtue of continuity. Its continuity though includes time travel/shifting, so nothing is violated still.
But, yeah, the dualism which made a Gray middle is a big anti-morality statement, while also being not as much. They mention other things besides good and evil in that Dualistic creation. It was like concepts of contrast, paradox, or true opposites which they say melded and reformed into three planes of existence and two major spirits forming the middle (Mundus, I still think...), until further definition came about. Some things about the idea is cool. But there is that small reference to the Black and the White and the Gray.
And throughout the game of Skyrim the story involves characters and events who do both good and bad, impunging dedication to a purer cause. See, people will do good and bad things. But to say there is no good and evil because of it usually results in seeing everything as evil, therefore bad is justified on your part, and anyone else is just evil. An idealogy similar to "Realism", where sentiment and morals were rejected because of pain and the darkness in the world, pacifism, and gray morality are along these lines or are them in very much the same way.
This is what they try to convey in Skyrim.
If you want to MAKE a good side, to DO the right thing yourself, you may be more alone, GOOD may be more alone...
But, Dovahkiin, DO IT!!!!! Be a hero. There is a reason I executed Ulfric when asked to and used my Nordic Sword in honor of her people. There is a reason I picked the Imperials and slew the Thalmor. My good guy wizard made the difference where an army would make many choices, spread amongst many people, and always the better needed to be done when faced with those who were not making consistent right choices (as is the nature of evil and its continutation amongst people). Typifying a cause, or reason, when people do bad for those reasons, is not amorality, gray morality, or any other such nonsense and deceptions. Something is wrong with Ulfric, then take care of it. Something is wrong with the White-Gold Concordant, then take care of it.
Gray moralists usually give a list of wrongs to prove their point, and only one more wrong to do to get it right...
Instead of all the rights that were not done or should be...
I picked Empire. Down with anti-Nord sentiment, because that does happen. Something should be said about counter-racism turning into racism, but the case does not go off that edge really in Skyrim, we are aware. But the Empire and many can deride the Nords for many things, and their traditions are trampled on by foreigners. Down with Nord Racism...Really. But not all Nords are racist. Ulfric may certainly be, based on enough reports and common Nord thinking.
It is Talos's Empire, not that a false world and its god can be taken with any serious treatment as the right deity to defend. But the Empire and Skyrim need each other or don't in order to fight the Thalmor. It honestly would have been better for Skyrim to receive the same treatment as Hammerfell if the Empire wanted to save the armistace with the Thalmor and maintain some relations with Skyrim, however, you have the question of national preservation that they chose to answer.
I am not a very strong believer in Ulfric fighting for Ulfric. Anyone could say that for man who is trying to overthrow and old dynasty, right or wrong. But his undisclosed history which is a spoiler and I do not tell here gives you some big doubts.
If Ulfric is not racist, someone else will be, and Skyrim will be closed off to foreigners.
Its not about who picked the right whatever in this game. Historical fact, the Concordant should not have been signed, Hammerfell and Skyrim should have remained with Black Marsh and the rest who left against those Thalmor. It did spare those countries I believe, but the loyalty and lack of willingness for the just fight are not right. Fact is the Thalmor should not be allowed in Skyrim, and the Empire should demand the show of a lie to them before they sacrifice their people. The fact is this medieval era is rather dark, not gray, and the Jarls were given gold for when people disappeared.
But the full strength of the Empire, death of the Thalmor, and continued reverence of Talos all lie in the Empire's side, from where I see things. I will kill their torturers (although I forgot too back in Helgen. Oh wait! I did, since I left with Ralof first), I would gladly fight for the justice of a Reachman, kill Madanach, and deal with everyone's mixed up justice. But to say there is no good or justice. Nah. Just someone doing something wrong, like executing children, on top of losing a city to Forsworn, on top of stealing their lands centuries ago. Eventually war must end, and it ends in peace. Not pacifism. True, just, free peace. Wrongs must be righted, but some of these intents and actions are not just retaliation nor right punishment. Reform of how war is fought and won, my friend. Its chaos, so go Dragonborn and Shout at all those who are out of line.
From what I just said, you see, it comes down to who is fighting with a straight sword. Is either "side" honorable? No. Are they just? No. Then why are you forcing yourself to make a choice in favor of either of them, and not what is strictly and truly right?
Kill the Thalmor, save Talos, and Imperial lands or not, stop the slaughter and genocide of everyone. Generations have gone by since the conquest of Skyrim from Elves. There is no undoing it nor great justice in slaying every single human. If you cannot do what is right to fix the Empire or Stormcloaks with sword, spell, axe, dagger, word, deed, or Voice, then the game has forced you into making a bad decision or tolerating one. And tolerence of evil is a bad choice. They have set you up, those developers. Be fair, be just, be honorable, and bold.
Fix your roleplay. If not, mod it. I want the Dark Brotherhood dead, cannot kill the old woman who deserve imprisonment nonetheless. I cannot sit Aventus Aretino to go over the wrong he seeks and evil he pursues. No one else will, but neither can you. Town guards in Riften won't go for her. Face it, I had to try and make a mod to fix this. It really isn't good. Not as a game, an abuse of story to spread a falsehood of neccesary immoral choices, and a restriction on your roleplay. :D I enjoy this game, but there are some things that make Skyrim already shallow, overly demonic, repulsive, and not good throughout its history, figures, and events. Those are bigger than this gray morality, but it still is there.
Make the right choice or recognize the good and ill of what people do without discarding the true sides of good and evil fully, perpetually.
Oh, and to correct earlier statements on the Stormcloaks helping the Thalmor, it is actually the CIVIL WAR which helps the Thalmor. If the Stormcloaks win, thats bad for them. If the Empire does, it is also bad. I like how the Thalmor get accused of unleashing the dragons because they were at Helgen too. In the same sitting, though, you learn they both didn't want Ulfric dead there and have no idea where the dragons came from. The only thing we all know is..."The Dragonborn comes..." But they say they want the Civil War to create a smokescreen of chaos while they handle their own, real purpose for being in Skyrim. I take it has less to do with Talos worshippers, nor the war.
We have no idea how long before an independent Skyrim can resist fighting the Thalmor, with Cyrodil or not. I could see a Hammerfell alliance or a general weakening of the Dominion with stronger, more indepent nations instead of one large organized target which can be vulnerable since its strength is both spread and shared. Funny thing about warfare and national governance there.
I pick Imperial, again, because the Markarth Incident, Some notes from the Thalmor, Talos being their former Emperor, because Nords are in the Legion, other Nords are racist, and the rest I even out with a good 'ol Fus Ro Duh.
Okay, a murderous, racist, genocidal, traitorous, tormenting, hating, greedy, ambitious, psychotic, and deranged Argonian. I like Argonians. So am I a good guy?
Why yes. I am clearly evil and insane. Perception does not determine reality, and deception is how we do evil in the first place. We convince ourselves it is good enough for us to be able to do it. That matters in the most tragic way. Choose what is right and better. That matters as much as evil.