Is Raven Rock in Skyrim a reference to Raven Rock in Fallout 3?

[BrokenEye the True False Prophet]

Now, I haven't visited Raven Rock yet and don't know much about it, but I know it exists, and I know what it's called, and I know how to put two and two together to make five. Two games by Bethesda. Two locations with the same name.

The first is on earth and based on a real location in the real world (Raven Rock Mountain Complex in Pennsylvania) and is an elaborate underground complex that's home to a remnant of the government of a fallen civilization, located in a wasteland plagued by ashy fallout from an enormous explosion long ago. Nearby (at least in real life) is the town of Blue Ridge Summit.

The second is a fictional location in a purely fictional fantasy world, not based on anything in the real world, which just happens to share the name "Raven Rock". As I mentioned before, my info is pretty limited, but I'm told it is home to a remnant of the government of a fallen civilization, contains an extensive underground complex, and and that the area is a bit of a wasteland due to the ashy fallout from an enormous explosion long ago. Nearby is a volcano called Red Mountain.

With anyone else, I could conceivably write all that off as a somewhat contrived coincidence, but this is Bethesda we're talking about.

[62firelight]

Raven Rock was also in an older Bethesda game, Morrowind. [www.uesp.net] The RR you see in Skyrim is basically that, albeit with a few layout differences.

As for both of them being the same, it's probably just either a reference or a coincidence.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by 62firelight:

Raven Rock was also in an older Bethesda game, Morrowind. [www.uesp.net] The RR you see in Skyrim is basically that, albeit with a few layout differences.

As for both of them being the same, it's probably just either a reference or a coincidence.

If anything, the Raven Rock base in Fallout 3 is a reference to Morrowind.

EDIT: The comparisons are a bit of a stretch otherwise - the underground network in Raven Rock is the Ebony Mine that originally founded the town (which was what the player was doing in a quest chain back in Morrowind) and the old crypt the miners busted into by mistake. Not sure about the government thing, though; can't remember what state the Morrowind mainland has been in since Red Mountain's eruption, but Raven Rock is just led by the remnants of House Redoran, which is only one of the three Houses that ruled Morrowind (or at least the island of Vvardenfell, can't recall what sort of presence the Houses have on the mainland or what their relation to the Morrowind royal family was).

The ash also wasn't part of the town's original design when we first saw it in Morrowind either; Red Mountain was relatively sedate up until sometime after the Oblivion Crisis. 200 years before the Dragonborn visits Solstheim, it was a rather plesant place. Probably a bit chilly, but not snow-covered at least.

[The Holy Chicken Overlord]

Raven Rock in Dragonborn isn't the location of a government's remnants, all of Morrowind was retaken from the Argonians. It's more like a colony of Morrowind to be honest.

[BrokenEye the True False Prophet]

Originally posted by Hero of Kvatch:

Raven Rock in Dragonborn isn't the location of a government's remnants, all of Morrowind was retaken from the Argonians. It's more like a colony of Morrowind to be honest.

There's a surviving family of Dwemer there that used to be one of the ruling Dwemer families back when there were still Dwemer to rule. That sounds like a remnant to me, though the Dwemer civilization itself does have more in common with Atlantis or the Anunnaki or something like that than with pre-apocalyptic America.

[★Kelvy★]

Typical BETH you see it as well in Fallout 4, simular things that seem to be passed on through the games with slight changes.

[The Holy Chicken Overlord]

Originally posted by BrokenEye the True False Prophet:

There's a surviving family of Dwemer there that used to be one of the ruling Dwemer families back when there were still Dwemer to rule. That sounds like a remnant to me

The Dwemer, or Dwarves, are extinct. (besides Yagrum) Have been since the first era. However, if you meant Dunmer, or Dark Elves...

"The Argonians of Black Marsh invaded, at first successfully pushing deep into the country, but then being driven off by the forces of House Redoran."

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonia

Originally posted by BrokenEye the True False Prophet:

though the Dwemer civilization itself does have more in common with Atlantis or the Anunnaki or something like that than with pre-apocalyptic America.

As others have already pointed out, Raven Rock was originally used in Morrowind back in 2002. The Enclave base in F3 was the reference.

[BrokenEye the True False Prophet]

Originally posted by Hero of Kvatch:

As others have already pointed out, Raven Rock was originally used in Morrowind back in 2002.

Alright, that's fair.

Originally posted by Hero of Kvatch:

The Enclave base in F3 was the reference.

I'm pretty sure that's impossible, since the Enclave base is, as I mentioned previously, a fairly straight adaptation of a real place that really exists in the real world and is really called Raven Rock[en.wikipedia.org] (a highly secure bunker to which select government and military officials are to be relocated in the event of nuclear war to ensure continuity of government), and therefore named after its real world counterpart. The only real narrative embellishments are that in the Fallout universe, nuclear war and the relocation of said officials to Raven Rock have already happened, and that those officials subsequently founded the Enclave after failing, despite their survival, to acheive continuity of government in any meaningful sense, which, let's be honest, is probably how that plan would wind up playing out in real life.

Oh, and also the interior layout is fictional, but that's mostly because the interior of the real facility is classified or something.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Well then they probably actually made Raven Rock base a place in the Fallout 3 because it had the name similar to the place from Morrowind. Either way; the version in Skyrim is not a reference to Fallout 3, but continuity with Morrowind.

And as the Hero of Kvatch mentioned (and I mis-remembered); there are no remnants of government there. Morrowind's government is alive-and-well on the province's mainland and Raven Rock is a colony originally made to support an ebony mine and currently supported by House Redoran - one of the Dunmer Great Houses.

There are no Dwemer left in the world save for, as mentioned, Yagrum Bagarn[www.uesp.net] who has been in the basement of a Telvanni Wizard's tower on Vvardenfell for several centuries. And if Tel Fyr hasn't been buried in volcanic ash over the last couple of centuries, I wouldn't be surprised if he's still down there.

EDIT: Here's a full lore article on the colony.[www.uesp.net] The first two paragraphs relate to the events the Nerevarine (the player-character from Morrowind) was involved in, the Oblivion Crisis was, naturally, the events of Oblivion, everything that happened there between the years 4E 1 and 4E 201 are the 200-year time gap the series went through between Oblivion and Skyrim.